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-   -   [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=77141)

Darekun 02-13-2011 05:06 AM

[Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
I slapped together a program to analyze the efficiency of beam weapons from G: Ultra-Tech, with a particular eye toward pairwise comparison in search of the exponent that relates damage to energy consumption. There are inconsistencies, but I'm generally starting by assuming consumption is proportional to the cube of damage. Once this thread dies, I will submit anything I then consider to be errata.

Damage is considered in dice for a single shot. Adds are converted to dice, rather than the other way around. Armor divisor is not considered, and thus this value is not transferrable across beam technologies(including TLs for "prototypes").

Consumption is considered in pounds of power supply per shot. This value is not transferrable across power supply technologies, or across the D cell/E cell line, and is only transferrable across TLs by using the REFs on UT19.

For each type, I also give an iterated arithmogeometric mean(IAM) efficiency factor. To calculate this efficiency factor for a single weapon, divide the cube of damage by the consumption. To calculate the IAM of two or more numbers, take their arithmetic mean and their geometric mean, then the arithmetic mean and geometric mean of those two numbers, etc. until they converge. There's probably a better way to do it, but I have a function that does it that way.

Note that lots of false precision is in use here; usually, the inputs have a minimum of 1-3 sig figs, but no maximum is listed. Yet, a base damage of 6d×5 is hardly accurate to the nearest point of damage.



High-Energy Lasers
I'm ignoring the laser crystals, since they don't have an easy way to rate consumption.

TL9 chemical laser rifles:
TL9 Assault Laser & TL9 Laser Sniper Rifle: 3.10628366470337
IAM efficiency factor of 632.477765821436.



TL9 powercell mounted lasers:
TL9 Area Defense Laser & TL9 Point Defense Laser: 2.99128278289889
TL9 Area Defense Laser & TL9 Semi-Portable Laser: 2.97712619241892
TL9 Point Defense Laser & TL9 Semi-Portable Laser: 2.96641714513055
IAM efficiency factor of 1104.67848197817.

For some reason, it seems to assume that TL9 powercell lasers are ~1.75× as efficient as TL9 chemical lasers. One wonders why they'd bother with chemical lasers at that point; a D cell would be superior to those dangerous chem packs.



TL10 laser pistols:
TL10 Holdout Laser & TL10 Laser Pistol: 4.67887358726757
TL10 Holdout Laser & TL10 Heavy Laser Pistol: 2.97400479146706
TL10 Laser Pistol & TL10 Heavy Laser Pistol: 0.571127181791335

Looks like the TL10 Laser Pistol has just about half the efficiency it should(1782 vs 3520 & 3584). If you consider this an erratum, double its Shots, resulting in this:

TL10 Holdout Laser & TL10 Laser Pistol: 2.96936229591612
TL10 Laser Pistol & TL10 Heavy Laser Pistol: 2.98054802144454
IAM efficiency factor of 3555.9496483904.

It's possible the powercell load should be dropped to 5B or something instead, I'll have to check the weights.



TL10 laser rifles:
TL10 Dinosaur Laser & TL10 Laser Carbine: 2.9495396947139
TL10 Dinosaur Laser & TL10 Laser Rifle: 3.00155146599174
TL10 Dinosaur Laser & TL10 Survival Laser: 3
TL10 Laser Carbine & TL10 Laser Rifle: 2.86747120859403
TL10 Laser Carbine & TL10 Survival Laser: 3.10628371950539
TL10 Laser Rifle & TL10 Survival Laser: 2.99889921736071
IAM efficiency factor of 3563.30521621454.

A subtle deviation, but the laser carbine could use a bit of tweaking(3500 vs 3584, 3585.6, & 3584). Increasing its Shots to 29 yields this:
TL10 Dinosaur Laser & TL10 Laser Carbine: 3.02420150076758
TL10 Laser Carbine & TL10 Laser Rifle: 3.05994060403106
TL10 Laser Carbine & TL10 Survival Laser: 2.94902477294566
IAM efficiency factor of 3594.62869578419.



TL10 mounted lasers:
TL10 Gatling Laser & TL10 Laser Cannon: 2.97712619241892
TL10 Gatling Laser & TL10 Strike Laser: 2.96641714513055
TL10 Laser Cannon & TL10 Strike Laser: 2.99128278289889
IAM efficiency factor of 8837.42785582536.

The gatling laser could stand to have its Shots bumped up to 103, but then it'd lose a decimal round number, so eh.



The TL11 rainbow lasers are generally similar, except the rainbow strike laser has a reduced Shots for no perceptible reason. This makes even less sense when you consider the weights and costs. I'd bring its Shots(at least) in line with the other strike lasers. Also the rainbow dinosaur laser looks like it has a typo in the weight, 9 vs 19.

The TL11 xasers are generally similar.

The TL12 grasers are generally similar, except the graser carbine and graser rifle have reduced damage for no perceptible reason. The weights are rock steady, and WTF is up with those costs? I'd bring their damages in line with the other laser carbines and laser rifles.



Particle Weapons
I'm ignoring the TL10 blaster and the TL11 pulsar, because there's only one of each.

TL11 blaster pistols:
TL11 Blaster Pistol & TL11 Heavy Blaster Pistol: 3.07811698400437
TL11 Blaster Pistol & TL11 Holdout Blaster: 2.90692089842468
TL11 Heavy Blaster Pistol & TL11 Holdout Blaster: 2.97797369367
IAM efficiency factor of 2117.20600809215.

TL11 blaster rifles:
TL11 Blaster Carbine & TL11 Blaster Rifle: 2.91039776312268
TL11 Blaster Carbine & TL11 Heavy Blaster: 3.07852725575407
TL11 Blaster Rifle & TL11 Heavy Blaster: 3.18508110034468
IAM efficiency factor of 2110.73911325708.

A subtle deviation, but the heavy blaster could use a bit of tweaking(2048 vs 2125 & 2160). Increasing its Shots to 21 yields this:
TL11 Blaster Carbine & TL11 Heavy Blaster: 2.97471919740411
TL11 Blaster Rifle & TL11 Heavy Blaster: 3.01548358683396
IAM efficiency factor of 2145.10786506716.

I'm not gonna touch these:
TL11 Blaster Cannon: 10000
TL11 Semi-Portable Blaster: 4320 (Yet converting that to D-cell equivalents is 1728. Should probably change the Shots to match the semi-portable pulsar, which would then be 2073.6 in D-cell equivalents.)
TL12 Antiparticle Cannon: 409600 (I think that ammo load is errata.)
TL12 Semi-Portable Pulsar: 41472 (The only reasonable one of the bunch.)

Darekun 02-13-2011 05:09 AM

Re: [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
Dazzle Lasers, Blinding Lasers, Stat Guns, Microwave Weapons, & Neural Weapons
Do not deal damage in dice, except as a degenerate case. In particular, given how unbalanced the Affliction advantage is across levels, I'm dubious about generalizing the conversion used for omni-blasters on UT124.



Sonic Screamers
The tactical screamer is the odd one out(10240 vs 3584 & 3564), but dropping its Shots to 35 yields this:
TL9^ Screamer Carbine & TL9^ Screamer Pistol: 2.98054802144454
TL9^ Screamer Carbine & TL9^ Tactical Screamer: 3
TL9^ Screamer Pistol & TL9^ Tactical Screamer: 2.99429463845319
IAM efficiency factor of 3577.32711363954.



Plasma Weapons
The assault flamer is a little low(3500 vs 3584), but what takes the cake is the semi-portable flamer(11664 in D-cell equivalents). Bumping the assault flamer's Shots up to 29 and dropping the semi-portable flamer's Shots to 31 yields this:

TL9^ Assault Flamer & TL9^ Hand Flamer: 2.94902477294566
TL9^ Assault Flamer & TL9^ Heavy Flamer: 3.02420150076758
TL9^ Assault Flamer & TL9^ Semi-Portable Flamer: 3.00197519532507
TL9^ Hand Flamer & TL9^ Heavy Flamer: 3
TL9^ Hand Flamer & TL9^ Semi-Portable Flamer: 2.99411951893591
TL9^ Heavy Flamer & TL9^ Semi-Portable Flamer: 2.98909314454708
IAM efficiency factor of 3602.18626529175.



Ignoring the TL10^ heavy plasma gun because there's only one. All the mounted plasma guns are a mess; no alternate exponent, no clear typos, no nothing.

TL11^ personal plasma guns:
TL11^ Heavy Plasma Pistol & TL11^ Plasma Pistol: 3.18299237464442
TL11^ Heavy Plasma Pistol & TL11^ Heavy Fusion Gun: 3.04439411935845
TL11^ Heavy Plasma Pistol & TL11^ Plasma Battle Rifle: 2.94457511780258
TL11^ Plasma Pistol & TL11^ Heavy Fusion Gun: 3.08408987859771
TL11^ Plasma Pistol & TL11^ Plasma Battle Rifle: 3.04159360055413
TL11^ Heavy Fusion Gun & TL11^ Plasma Battle Rifle: 3.18508110034468
IAM efficiency factor of 33360.8938443259.



Gravity Weapons
Personal force weapons are kinda messy:
TL10^ Force Beamer & TL10^ Force Pistol: 4.89401029903858
TL10^ Force Beamer & TL10^ Force Rifle: 3.3414297355899
TL10^ Force Pistol & TL10^ Force Rifle: 2.17282825393226



Two mounted force weapons are close to the baseline assumption:
TL10^ Force Cannon & TL10^ Heavy Force Cannon: 2.99128278289889
TL10^ Force Cannon & TL10^ Semi-Portable Force Beam: 2.05643164549367
TL10^ Heavy Force Cannon & TL10^ Semi-Portable Force Beam: 2.37802996736293

Increasing the semi-portable force beam's Shots to 350 yields this:
TL10^ Force Cannon & TL10^ Heavy Force Cannon: 2.99128278289889
TL10^ Force Cannon & TL10^ Semi-Portable Force Beam: 3.00423375129872
TL10^ Heavy Force Cannon & TL10^ Semi-Portable Force Beam: 2.99977848613691
IAM efficiency factor of 71557.1982083265.

I'm kinda suspicious of that 2.05643164549367, though.



For graviton beams, the graviton pistol is the odd one out(~256), increasing its Shots to 57(and, of course, converting the mounted graviton beams to D-cell equivalents) yields:
TL11^ Graviton Beamer & TL11^ Graviton Pistol: 2.98809896072062
TL11^ Graviton Beamer & TL11^ Graviton Rifle: 2.98319258336633
TL11^ Graviton Beamer & TL11^ Graviton Cannon: 2.99457107824613
TL11^ Graviton Beamer & TL11^ Semi-Portable Graviton Beam: 3.01024084927878
TL11^ Graviton Pistol & TL11^ Graviton Rifle: 2.97976308071642
TL11^ Graviton Pistol & TL11^ Graviton Cannon: 2.99556297051593
TL11^ Graviton Pistol & TL11^ Semi-Portable Graviton Beam: 3.01771061780629
TL11^ Graviton Rifle & TL11^ Graviton Cannon: 3
TL11^ Graviton Rifle & TL11^ Semi-Portable Graviton Beam: 3.05311133645956
TL11^ Graviton Cannon & TL11^ Semi-Portable Graviton Beam: 2.97712619241892
IAM efficiency factor of 442.134070874018.



Disintegrators
Personal disintegrators are messy, and I think the pistol's and rifle's damage has a typo(36 is almost 35, and ×6 and ×7 are unusual multipliers):
TL12^ Disintegrator Pistol & TL12^ Holdout Disintegrator: 15.4527696021845 (That tiny damage difference throws this exponent out of whack.)
TL12^ Disintegrator Pistol & TL12^ Disintegrator Rifle: 5.11484841486147
TL12^ Holdout Disintegrator & TL12^ Disintegrator Rifle: 6.71218178004661

Mounted disintegrators are centered nicely on an exponent of 3:
TL12^ Heavy Disintegrator Cannon & TL12^ Light Disintegrator Cannon: 2.99128278289889
TL12^ Heavy Disintegrator Cannon & TL12^ Semi-Portable Disintegrator: 2.97712619241892
TL12^ Light Disintegrator Cannon & TL12^ Semi-Portable Disintegrator: 2.96641714513055
IAM efficiency factor of 70699422.8466029.



Ghost Particle Weapons
I don't think these are supposed to be different TLs:
TL11^ Ghost Particle Cannon & TL12^ Heavy Ghost Particle Cannon: 2.99128278289889
IAM efficiency factor of 71495.8368575407.

lexington 02-13-2011 07:54 AM

Re: [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
I'm completely confused. Just for starters: Are these numbers absolute or are they comparing the weapons listed? (it says TL10 Gatling Laser & TL10 Laser Cannon: 2.977, does that mean both have an efficiency of 2.977 or that the Gatling his 2.977 times as efficient?)

Anders 02-13-2011 08:27 AM

Re: [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darekun (Post 1122337)
I'm kinda suspicious of that 2.05643164549367, though.

Agreed. I'd eyeball it to 2.05643164549377 myself.

The reason they use chem-lasers at early TL9 is that normal lasers aren't available yet.

RyanW 02-13-2011 11:58 AM

Re: [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lexington (Post 1122371)
I'm completely confused. Just for starters: Are these numbers absolute or are they comparing the weapons listed? (it says TL10 Gatling Laser & TL10 Laser Cannon: 2.977, does that mean both have an efficiency of 2.977 or that the Gatling his 2.977 times as efficient?)

If I'm reading correctly, it means that a function that perfectly fits both stat lines would have a 2.977 exponent.

Darekun 02-13-2011 01:55 PM

Re: [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lexington (Post 1122371)
I'm completely confused. Just for starters: Are these numbers absolute or are they comparing the weapons listed? (it says TL10 Gatling Laser & TL10 Laser Cannon: 2.977, does that mean both have an efficiency of 2.977 or that the Gatling his 2.977 times as efficient?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanW (Post 1122435)
If I'm reading correctly, it means that a function that perfectly fits both stat lines would have a 2.977 exponent.

Yup :J Imagine two weapons with these stats:
Code:

Weapon Name        Dam        Wt        Shots
Light Laser        1d        1/A        16
Heavy Laser        10d        1/D        16

The second one deals 10× as much damage, and consumes 1000× as much energy per shot. 10^3 = 1000, therefore this pair would yield an exponent of 3.

However, the numbers aren't usually that pat(those who bought UT paid for several pages of laser stats, after all), so consider this weapon:
Code:

Weapon Name        Dam        Wt        Shots
High-ish Laser        9d        1/D        22

It deals 9× as much damage as the light laser, and consumes 16000/22×(or about 727.27×) as much energy per shot. Thus, comparing it to the light laser would yield an exponent of log(16000/22) / log(9)= 2.99892037, which is still about 3. Comparing it to the heavy laser above would yield an exponent of log(16/22) / log(9/10)= 3.02251493, which is also about 3. (Those two are pretty close, so any error is amplified.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asta Kask (Post 1122377)
The reason they use chem-lasers at early TL9 is that normal lasers aren't available yet.

Even if the mounted ones are using a technology that doesn't scale down, I think TL8 lasers with TL9 powercells would be logistically superior to those chem packs :J

Agemegos 02-13-2011 02:23 PM

Re: [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darekun (Post 1122493)
Even if the mounted ones are using a technology that doesn't scale down, I think TL8 lasers with TL9 powercells would be logistically superior to those chem packs :J

Not sure I understand what you mean here. A chemical laser doesn't run on electricity. and a power cell doesn't provide hydrogen and fluorine. You can't plug a Franklin stove in to a wall socket as a logistically superior alternative to cutting wood.

Darekun 02-13-2011 03:23 PM

Re: [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1122509)
Not sure I understand what you mean here. A chemical laser doesn't run on electricity. and a power cell doesn't provide hydrogen and fluorine. You can't plug a Franklin stove in to a wall socket as a logistically superior alternative to cutting wood.

Three different technologies:
  1. TL9 electric lasers that only work at large sizes.
  2. TL9 chemical lasers, which work small, and presumably also work large but can't compete with tech A.
  3. TL8 electric lasers that scale up and down, but are too power-hungry for TL8 batteries.
I mean tech C with TL9 powercells would be better for a military than tech B.

If tech B were light and cheap, it'd be useful to zerg with UAVs and not care much that their chem packs are explodey… but for the weight of the TL9 assault laser, it could carry a TL9 storm rifle with better penetration, much better damage after armor, autofire, about a quarter the cost, and lighter additional ammo. Acc is not a big deal if you're zerging, you want a mature technology.

The laser sniper rifle is in a role where paying the big bucks for Acc is normal… but then ammo capacity isn't a big deal, and electric lasers can use external packs for tower sniping. If you assume a TL8 electric laser with a TL9 D cell would drop Shots to 20%, change the weight and cost, but be otherwise similar, then that's a much better sniper weapon.

sir_pudding 02-13-2011 04:41 PM

Re: [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darekun (Post 1122558)
TL8 electric lasers that scale up and down, but are too power-hungry for TL8 batteries.

These don't AFAICT, actually exist.

Darekun 02-13-2011 05:40 PM

Re: [Gearhead] [UT] Beam Weapon Efficiency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1122601)
These don't AFAICT, actually exist.

Trivially, CO2 lasers? IR output, supports Q-switched micropulsing, gas medium close enough to ordinary air to not interfere with breathing after one's shot next to you. Used for industrial apps today because of scalability and cost, but too power-hungry for battlefield use.


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