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-   -   Orbital Base Jumping (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=76129)

Agemegos 01-08-2011 02:00 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoman314 (Post 1102749)
Surely the weapons on molokh's design would be more about suppressing ground defenses on final approach, rather than any sort of hovering gunship. The craft was designed to get marines down on the ground.

Well, it isn't going to be able to do very much suppressing. While the ship is aerobraking you can't see out through the plasma sheath to return fire, and if anyone is shooting at you you are toast. You need the suppression done before you arrive.

Anyway, now I'm wondering what this thing of Molokh's is going to land on. Nice flat playa? A lake? Or does it stall out at below 0.15 mi./sec. and land on its dinkyrocket?

sir_pudding 01-08-2011 02:12 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1102876)
NPC marines still hate meteoric drops.

At least one PC Marine in that setting hated meteoric drops, too.

Crakkerjakk 01-08-2011 02:15 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1102890)
At least one PC Marine in that setting hated meteoric drops, too.

This Marine also hates meteoric drops. Usually means the aircraft stopped working.

vicky_molokh 01-08-2011 04:34 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1102704)
It looks like a dud to me. It doesn't have enough delta-v to re-enter without aerobraking, and it doesn't have enough dDR to aerobrake. The weapons are going to be a useless waste of space during re-entry (you can't see to target through the plasma sheath), and the engine has a burn endurance of only 8 seconds, which is not enough loiter time to provide useful air support after aerobraking.

As for slipping in cold, passenger seating gives you life support for 24 hours only. And you only have delta-v to brake from 0.15 mi/sec., which gives you a maximum range of 13,000 miles.

It has wings and a Soft Landing System, so it can aerobrake. The weapons are more of an extra. They can be used to launch missiles if the missiles can acquire targets on their own, or they can be used for defense after the landing, like Deathwind Drop Pods from WH40K.
The engine is not meant for loiter, it was meant for minor course corrections in an emergency, such as during Dodges or if launched on a suboptimal trajectory outside an atmosphere. It has wings and a Control Room, which is required for air manoeuvres. I would rather replace the engine with a superscience one if I knew which ones are available.

As for life support, shouldn't Spess Mehrines Be Don't Afraid Of No Oxygen? Or, more seriously, shouldn't they have more life support in the battlesuits?

Tai, you mentioned TL9. What superscience systems are available, if any? Which weapons are?

vicky_molokh 01-08-2011 04:36 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1102885)
Well, it isn't going to be able to do very much suppressing. While the ship is aerobraking you can't see out through the plasma sheath to return fire, and if anyone is shooting at you you are toast. You need the suppression done before you arrive.

Anyway, now I'm wondering what this thing of Molokh's is going to land on. Nice flat playa? A lake? Or does it stall out at below 0.15 mi./sec. and land on its dinkyrocket?

The TL7 moon lander somehow landed and left off with no airstrip or helipad. TL9 craft should be able to handle rougher stuff. Especially given that things like dropships and one-time colony craft have to land on uninhabited and potentially somewhat uncharted planets somehow.

How should one go about constructing a WH40K drop pod otherwise?

The three ECM stations (and/or a Cloaking Device, TL^ permitting), and occasionally streamlining are there to be harder to hit too.

Another consideration is that turrets don't need to see the LZ to do clearing suppression fire of said LZ, they just need to know the coordinates. This seems to be the SOP of drop pods in Tiberian Sun/Firestorm, where pods simply always shoot where they land to clear the area. Of course, whether you can afford to do that depends on what weapons are in the turrets.

Snoman314 01-08-2011 05:39 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clusterfrak (Post 1102785)
But would that really be practical for a combat landing?

Probably not. I was however describing the opposite extreme from what is typically thought of when people consider re-entry. The point I was trying to make is that the shielding requirements can be less than usually considered. I did mention that this requires a slower approach, with a more continuous range of entry options available.
However, Spaceships is way too granular for that sort of consideration, going in this case with more of a capable/not-capable approach, in which case I would argue for a much wider range of craft being able to make a reentry, regardless of what kind of entry profile is used (because such things are below the level of detail in the game).

Agemegos 01-08-2011 06:53 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 1102906)
The TL7 moon lander somehow landed and left off with no airstrip or helipad.

Indeed. That was a vertical landing with engine braking. Not a glide in with aerobraking.

Agemegos 01-08-2011 07:01 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1102890)
At least one PC Marine in that setting hated meteoric drops, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk (Post 1102893)
This Marine also hates meteoric drops. Usually means the aircraft stopped working.

Not all PCs are crzy.

A meteoric drop usually mean that some naval officer had decided that the needs of the many outweighed the needs of a few marines, and that it was time to shut up and soldier.

In fact, I don't think that a PC marine has ever undergone a meteoric drop in a FLAT BLACK adventure. In backstory, yes: on camera, no.

vicky_molokh 01-08-2011 07:12 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1102929)
Indeed. That was a vertical landing with engine braking. Not a glide in with aerobraking.

Fine, so aerobrake until the last 8 or so seconds (or whatever the dV for the chosen drive will be).

Langy 01-08-2011 08:00 AM

Re: Orbital Base Jumping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1102885)
Well, it isn't going to be able to do very much suppressing. While the ship is aerobraking you can't see out through the plasma sheath to return fire, and if anyone is shooting at you you are toast. You need the suppression done before you arrive.

Anyway, now I'm wondering what this thing of Molokh's is going to land on. Nice flat playa? A lake? Or does it stall out at below 0.15 mi./sec. and land on its dinkyrocket?

Seeing through the plasma sheath isn't a problem, since some Russians have apparently found a solution to the 'unable to communicate through plasma sheath' problem (see the orbital bombardment thread). Just have the spaceship that launched the drop pod broadcast the pod's position and the position of any targets (all encrypted, of course).


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