Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

Has anyone ever tried to build a martial arts style based on historical manuals? What did you come up with? Also do you have any resources that might contrabute to doing this?

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

I think that's what Kromm and TKD did when they wrote Martial Arts. Sorry, mine own style designs have all been fantasy, not historical. -GEF

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

No, I have not. Why? Because it's already been done!

See GURPS Martial Arts

One of the best purchases I made.

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

I have GURPS martial arts and most of the historical styles within are allaghams of all manner of manuals and techniques more akin to what modern re-enactors do than what would have been done historically. While I understand that breaking down the weapon systems by period and language would have been too cumbersom for a work of the book's scope it would be nice to have styles for i.33 sword and buckler or Hutton sabre (actually there's no sabre styles in the book beyond modern sports sabre) as opposed to just generic weapon styles, especially in a historical game.

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

The three styles in Martial Arts: Fairbairn Close Combat Systems are entirely based on historical manuals. It's an easy process to convert styles with Martial Arts in hand.

Cheers

HANS

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

Note, however, that most styles based on historical manuals would be strikingly similar, if not identical, in GURPS terms.
There are dozens of historical fighting manuals... and thousands more historical fighting teacher who did not publish a manual.
Yet there are only that many applicable GURPS maneuvers for each given weapon.
E.g. one could write dozens of minor variations of Longsword fighting (MA180) but what would be the point?
Longsword fighting already encompasses most if not all applicable techniques, so each variation would simply drop a couple of techniques, with no impact on actual play.
Let's say that Longsword fighting variant A drops "Targeted Attack (Two-Handed Sword Thrust/Face)" and "Knee strike", while Longsword fighting variant B drops "Ground Fighting (Knife)" and "Trip".
Obviously, most practitioners of both styles would actually improve just a small subset of all the style's applicable techniques (because it would be absurdly uneffective to do otherwise).
Therefore, you would not be able to tell a style A practitioner from a style B practitioner judging on their character sheet... because it is very likely that neither of them would actually improve any of Trip, TA (Face), Ground fighting or Knee strike...
Also, two individuals who practice the same styles, might actually be far more different from each other, than two individuals who practice 2 different styles (due to the techniques they actually choose to improve).

So I think that an over-categorization of styles would be just a futile mental exercise (and a huge loss of time ^^)
It is just below GURPS' resolution...

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

Well, frankly, I just use the Hutton Saber style that you wrote! Is something wrong with it? Generally you're my go to forumite when it comes to historical European styles.

I did write a style based on this book once, but I lost it when my external hard drive died. I plan on revisiting it someday for the steampunk campaign I've always wanted to run, but it was never in widespread practice.

I've also done some work on Wudang Sword from a manual published in 1930, but I'm not ready to share it with the forums yet. It's also not as historical as you have in mind.

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

I'm with the above. I did notice a lack of saber arts, though, and I have considered making a simple style oriented towards military sabre manuals; it's going to be a rather simple style, though.

M.

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

I'm not sure this is a problem. While some styles in MA are generic (Dagger Fighting, Sword and Shield), none of them is intended to represent a single teacher's art but a martial tradition (so "Longsword fighting" represents German longsword in general, not the version in one manuscript; "Nito Ryu" is that tradition not the exact way Musashi used it at any one point in his life). And historically, students often trained with several teachers, so narrowing a style description too much can be unrealistic too.

That said here is a write up based on one source and training in the tradition it is part of. I have a few more half-written ones, but I don't intend to polish them without a game I can use them in or someone paying me.

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

......and only a few days ago on the Military Swordsmanship thread I said "If I found a sword style that taught Counterattack, Feint and Targeted attacks I'd ask what more did you want?" and here is that style. :)

If you want a _functional_ sword style this is what it's going tio look like. Other elements would probably not add much functionality.

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

A lot of what's in manuals are simply covered by attack rolls and parry rolls.

M.

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

What style did they use in Surf Ninjas?

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

Worse than that. I don't remember everyone who had their hand in that one, but I know that I made some suggestions and I primarily study Fiore, an Italian. I've seen some of the German material (and I consider myself lucky to be able to count Christian Tobler as a friend) but I can't say that it had much influence on my comments or contributions to the book.

My take, for what it's worth, is that each historical master started with some common material and the focused on whatever worked best for them (you can see that kind of development in what successive manuscripts incorporate). We know, for example, that the manuals included a large number of different techniques, but we have little idea which of those techniques each master favored. With Fiore we theorize that at least some of the surviving manuals were produced by students from a common source. Their individual foci and interests can be seen in the differences between the books.

Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals
 

True that. I find on the whole the styles in GURPS martial arts tend to have a great deal more represented than would be in any real world system. The Longsword fighting for example seems to cover everything from every longsword manual from all of early modern and medieval Europe, rather than just say, the English or Italian school.

Well it's not in te core martial arts book ;). I've been playing with the Highland broadsword writeup for a while now (I think there are a few different ones on the forum) and I wouldn't mind you gave me some feedback on how you find it in play and how it's being recieved.

My point is more that there are few styles based on historical manuscripts in GURPS martial arts and most of the historical styles contained within are more indicative what modern re-enactors do by taking sources from a wide range of periods and languages (fencing methods seem to have been devided up by language backgrounds, presumably as sword systems were the product of exchanging ideas which you need to speak to others to do) and squishes them together into a super style containing all the techniques possible (I take issues with doing this much of the time but that's a topic for another thread). I was kind of curios if anyone writing for historical campaigns had decided to go into more detail and write up styles accurate to those periods and the background of the campaign. As much as this probably does constitute going into excessive detail I feel that excessive detail is in large part the joy of GURPS (I think I've written three new styles for a Swashbucklers campaign I'm doing, in spite of there being only one combat orientated character). I would reject that all or most means of using the same weapon are the same in GURPS terms, there would be a noted difference in the shortsword of George Silver, regimental highland broadsword and Italian single sword for example, as there would between say English and German longsword. Assuming I remember I'll demonstrate this with style write ups when I get back to my GURPS books.