Steve Jackson Games Forums - Wand of Dowsing in combat

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Mr P	12-12-2010 03:55 PM

Wand of Dowsing in combat

Hi! In the spanish forum of Munchkin a buddy ask for the next situation:

A 9th level player was in combat which could make him win, so another player decided to use the Wand of Dowsing to take a monster from the discard pile and use it with a wandering monster from his hand and you know... some of the players agreed, anothers dont.

I've looking throught the forum about the WoD and found this post of MunchkinMan:

Quote:

Treasure cards can only be played on your turn or as soon as you get them, except (generically) GUAL cards (any time) and one-shot Items (during any combat). Other cards specifically say if they can be played at any time. WoD is a Treasure card and does not say it can be played other than on your turn.

In the 19th rules you can find:

Quote:

Items –Using Them
Any one-shot item can be played during any combat, whether you have it in your hand or on the table. (Some one-shot items, such as the Wishing Ring, may also be used outside of combat.)
Other items cannot be used unless they are active. Items turned sideways cannot help you, even if you could otherwise legally use them.
Other Treasures
Other Treasure cards are “specials” (like “Go Up A Level”). You may play these at any time, unless the card itself says otherwise. Follow the card’s instructions, then discard it, unless it has a persistent bonus like an Item.

Can they consider the WoD a one-shot item? It's true you can only use it once but I didn't think so...

Kirt	12-12-2010 10:33 PM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

There is an important distinction here between PLAYED (cuando sacas una tarjeta de su mano) and USED (cuando usas una tarjeta que tienes en la mesa.)

Dowsing Rod is an Item, and it can only be used once. As a one-shot item, it is legal to USE it during someone else's turn, provided it is already on the table. This is what the quote you have from the rules says.

However, if someone has the card in their hand, they may not PLAY it from their hand to the table unless it is their turn or they just received it. That is what the ruling you quote from MM says.

So, to answer your question, taking the monster in the middle of the combat was legal IF the dowsing rod was already on the table, but was not legal if the person tried to play it from their hand.

MunchkinMan

12-12-2010 10:56 PM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

The Wand Of Dowsing does not say "usable once only," so it's not a one-shot card. You can not play it from your hand during combat, and since it's an Item, you may only play it to the table on your turn when you're not in combat, and use it any time after that, but you can't use it from your hand at any time.

Andrew Hackard

12-13-2010 11:13 AM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

I'm ruling that the clear intent is that this is a one-shot card, even though it lacks the magical "Usable once only" language, and so the rules of one-shot cards apply to this one as well. It can be played during combat, and it can be used from the hand. (Sorry, Erik.)

Yes, this is an explicit exception, and yes, we'll get this added to the FAQ.

Kirt	12-13-2010 10:21 PM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirt (Post 1091725)

Dowsing Rod is an Item, and it can only be used once. As a one-shot item...

Now that the thread is unlocked, I should point out that I was WRONG about this. MM has had other posts where he has said that something is not a one-shot just because it says or implies "discard after using", it needed to say "usable once only" to qualify.

Andrew's recent ruling notwithstanding, what I wrote was wrong when I wrote it, so my apologies to MM and the OP for not checking more carefully before I said it.

Gryphon

02-19-2011 06:09 PM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard (Post 1091945)

Soooo, WoD is now one-shot item, eh? OK, situation:
Player A is a Wizard and currently is in combat, Player B obtains WoD and using it to find something to drop in Player A's combat. Can Player A charm his monster while Player B is searching card in discard deck?

Andrew Hackard

02-19-2011 06:56 PM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gryphon (Post 1125840)

Player A is a Wizard and currently is in combat, Player B obtains WoD and using it to find something to drop in Player A's combat. Can Player A charm his monster while Player B is searching card in discard deck?

No. Once B plays Wand of Dowsing, he must be allowed to complete his action.

Gryphon

02-19-2011 11:57 PM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard (Post 1125853)

No. Once B plays Wand of Dowsing, he must be allowed to complete his action.

Thank you!

Andrew Hackard

02-20-2011 12:31 AM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gryphon (Post 1125957)

Thank you!

Although, to be UTTERLY clear, the action is complete when B retrieves something from the discard pile. Playing it is a separate action, and A could conceivably split the second between B's retrieval of the card and play of the card. It's unlikely, but possible.

Grax	02-25-2011 08:12 AM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard (Post 1125965)

In this situation, the Wizard would still have to fight the monster that B wanders into the combat though (correct?), even if the initial monster was charmed - effectively the wizard loses his whole hand without getting the treasures from the initial combat until the second monster is resolved.

This thought is based on my understanding of the "2.9 second" rule as well as the "actions must be resolved before the next action can take place". Please correct me if I am assuming too much.

Bogie1494

02-25-2011 08:50 AM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grax (Post 1129153)

I don't think the second monster would be able to join the combat if the Wizard was fast enough. I don't have the card anywhere near me at the moment, but I don't believe at least that WoD has the implicit term that whatever you "resurrect" from the discards must be played immediately. Its action is resolved once the card is removed from the discard pile. Using the WoD resurrected card is another action. IIRC from other threads concerning Wizard's Charm, it is immediate and the "2.9s rule" doesn't apply similarly to an Epic Orc just eating a level 1 monster. And if the Charm is activated before the other player could wander in the WoD monster then combat would be over.

MunchkinMan

02-25-2011 09:20 AM

Re: Wand of Dowsing in combat

We've established, here and in the FAQ, that if a Wizard uses his charm spell, that the "2.6 second" rule does still apply, and people can wander in another Monster. What does happen immediately is the removal of the Monster, which is complete, so anything enhancing that specific Monster goes with it (under the most common circumstances). The same goes for the Orc's epic ability, Monster Munch.

Here are the appropriate FAQ entries:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The FAQ

Q. Some cards say they automatically defeat a certain type of Monster (like the Snickersnee and Scary Clowns, or the Churninator and Level 1 monsters). Can anyone interfere with this? Can anyone play a Wandering Monster?
A. Yes. You may have automatically defeated the monster in question, but your fellow munchkins still have 2.6 seconds to respond. They probably cannot do anything to help the now-defeated monster, but they can still wander in a new one for you to fight. (But if the monster had special "bring in a friend" rules, such as -goths and Bats, you cannot use those rules, because the original monster is no longer there.)

. . .

Q. Does the "2.6 seconds rule" apply to defeating a monster without killing it, or just to killing it?
A. Any sort of defeat. If you defeat it without killing it, other players still have about 2.6 seconds to play an applicable card to frustrate you. However, if you removed the only monster from the fight (with Magic Lamp, for instance), they cannot play Monster Enhancers or other similar cards that affect a specific monster, because there isn't one there to fight, and they can't use any special rules for bringing in monsters (such as the Shark rules from Munchkin Booty) that depend on having a monster in the fight. They can play Wandering Monster to bring in an entirely new monster, though, as long as they do it at once.

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