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-   -   [Spaceships] Armor Density (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=75326)

Dinadon 12-13-2010 02:38 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1092046)
Modules are based on both mass and volume -- the reason you can only fit X modules in a SM +Y hull is because of volume, not mass. The mass of the modules is handled by the change in performance.
That doesn't sound like Spaceships, since it's always 20 systems regardless of SM.

RyanW 12-13-2010 04:06 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
I've added some modifications for lighter systems.

Anthony 12-13-2010 04:11 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinadon (Post 1092052)
That doesn't sound like Spaceships, since it's always 20 systems regardless of SM.
Nah, spaceships is just X=20.

Mark Skarr 12-13-2010 04:46 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1092046)
Modules are based on both mass and volume -- the reason you can only fit X modules in a SM +Y hull is because of volume, not mass. The mass of the modules is handled by the change in performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1092097)
Nah, spaceships is just X=20.
No, that's not true. Each system is 5% of the ships total mass. It abstracts volume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GURPS Spaceships, pg 5
Spacecraft hulls are divided into three sections: the front hull, the central hull, and the rear hull. Each represents one-third of the spacecraft’s total mass (not volume). This need not be taken too literally: the actual shape may be more complex, e.g., “the front hull section” could include forward- facing parts of the vessel that are actually part of multiple different subhulls, pods, or wings.

The front, center, and rear hulls each contain six hull systems numbered [1] to [6]. In addition, two of the three hull sections contain deep- buried systems designated [core]. Each system is a major component. The numbers are used for hit location rolls (see p. 61), while the core systems are similar to the vitals location of a human. Each spacecraft has 20 systems, each 5% of the total mass.
Emphasis from book.

dynaman 12-13-2010 07:41 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Skarr (Post 1092113)
No, that's not true. Each system is 5% of the ships total mass. It abstracts volume.

Emphasis from book.
All that needs to be done is take the extra systems and divide the speed by it. If the ship ends up being 30 modules then the speed will be X

X = (given speed from spaceships) / 30 times 20.

For low volume system like armor (and considering how coarse the spaceships systems are already) this works fine. (I also tend to ignore hits on extra armor systems in this case)

Ships still only get two core modules as well.

Langy 12-14-2010 02:54 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
Anthony's method should work fine. The only reason ships are restricted to 20 locations is due to the effect ship mass has upon performance (which is mostly fixed adequately by modifying performance by the total number of systems used, except for fuel tanks, which would need to be reworked a bit more) and for reasons based upon volume. If you alter the ship performance based upon total number of modules, you've got a system that needs 20 systems for volume-based reasons (such as number of people that can fit in a hull section or the hit location rules), not mass.

You could expand it so that different systems took up different amounts of volume slots while taking up one mass slot. Armor modules would take up 1 mass slot and 0 volume slots, habitats might take up one mass slot and two volume slots, etc.

For fuel tanks, the fuel tank multiplier would need to be based upon the actual fraction of fuel tanks to total mass slots used. Everything else should work fine.

RyanW 12-14-2010 04:55 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy (Post 1092522)
Anthony's method should work fine. The only reason ships are restricted to 20 locations is due to the effect ship mass has upon performance (which is mostly fixed adequately by modifying performance by the total number of systems used, except for fuel tanks, which would need to be reworked a bit more) and for reasons based upon volume. If you alter the ship performance based upon total number of modules, you've got a system that needs 20 systems for volume-based reasons (such as number of people that can fit in a hull section or the hit location rules), not mass.
That way works, but is a completely different design system from Spaceships. It's similar to how it was done with the various 3e modular vehicle design systems. A hull of a given size has a given number of spaces, and you calculate mass and performance last.

The problem I see with this idea is one that haunted all of the 3e systems: It's difficult to build a vehicle with a target performance. Basing everything on same-mass modules means that each module give a certain performance (3G for an engine, 12 mps dV for a fuel tank), rather than having to calculate performance at the end.

Ulzgoroth 12-14-2010 05:12 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
Partitioning spaceships into a different number of systems breaks the Spaceships damage system.

Everything else you can work around if you're willing to do the math, but how do you deal with that?

Anthony 12-14-2010 05:14 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW (Post 1092564)
The problem I see with this idea is one that haunted all of the 3e systems: It's difficult to build a vehicle with a target performance.
This is true, but the fewer variants you have, the easier it is. If just armor has nonstandard volume, it's actually pretty easy to come up with target performance (adding fuel and habitat makes it messy rapidly).

Anthony 12-14-2010 05:15 PM
Re: [Spaceships] Armor Density
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 1092572)
Partitioning spaceships into a different number of systems breaks the Spaceships damage system.

Everything else you can work around if you're willing to do the math, but how do you deal with that?
By not assigning damage locations to extra armor?


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