Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Do we have some rules for one character attempting an active defense on behalf of another? Specifically placing yourself in the line of fire to defend others or block attacks against them with a ready sheild.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

I don't know of any hard and fast rules, but good theater says you should be able to do it but be punished for doing it.

For Blocking: Roll against normal block+ the shields defense bonus, but this makes the shield unready and the player will have to take a turn to ready it.
Also (and this is the punishment) Make a roll against DX- the shields DB, if the player make the roll all defense roll are at -4 for a full turn,
If the player fail the DX roll they don't have any defense rolls for a full turn (your trying not to fall). NOTE:I would let the player attack on their turn but at a -4, just attack no maneuvering.

For Parrying: roll against parry -3, then roll against DX -3, if the player make the roll no penalty, if they miss by 3 or less the weapon is unready, if they miss by more they drop the weapon.

For Dodging: see Basic Set p. 375 and p.377 for Sacrificial Dodge

Parry is easier because of its reach

Edit: rolls are against DX or weapons or shield skill.
Edit: for blocking shield is unready only if the DX/Shield roll is missed, also if the roll is made defense rolls are -2 (not -4), and -4 if the roll is missed while you regain your balance.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Dodge - Sacrificial Dodge (Basic Set)
Block - Shield Wall Training (Perk from Martial Arts)
Parry - Im not sure, but I let players do it :)

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

I have done this sort of thing and I would have to say that it really isn't that dangerous to the shieldman to do so.

I never felt that my shield (48" high and 30" across the face - good fit for DB3) was unready when I stuck it out to my right to cover my spearman or when I stepped up into a hole in the line to cover people from the spears that were shooting into that hole.

With smaller shields I have intercepted shots that were not coming at me just to be annoying to the OpFor. It is usually a quick snappy move meant to throw a long weapon off it's target. Against swords I just block it. Anything that is not landing on my side is good.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

I dont see any reason to penalize block or parry massivly for defending another character when both sacrifical dodge options provide no downside for the attempt. In particular I have the impression that when forming a defensive line or fighting in tandom with a long weapon user the whole point of the shield man is to block strikes at the more defenseless weapon user.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Getting hit by the attack yourself isn't a downside?
That's what Shield Wall Training does.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Sacrificial Parry is a perk ;) It's easily a perk you could give for free, mind you.

Aside: When did we get advertisements on this forum?

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

One of the things, anyway.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Today, AFAICT, there's a thread.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Aha. I also noticed that yesterday. I don't think about it as a bad thing -except for browsing with computers with low performance!

Thanks.

-

BTW, here are very good answers to the OP's questions.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

It is common in the fantasy novels I read, have two swords men who are fighting back to back to parry for each other.

I would say any attack that passes though your reach can be parried at normal cost even if it is aimed at another. Though with out the benefits of Retreat. If this would unread your weapon if you were parrying for yourself then it will also do so for parrying for another, other not.

I might treat it like the shield wall perk basied on the same novels describing the fighters that do so were often trained together being pointed out in the scene

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Some assumptions about my first post:

Dodging: its in basic set (that was easy)

Parry: two players are standing side-by-side, player A on the left, player B on the right (A B). player B was stunned on the last turn, so is -4 to all defense rolls, Bad guy attacks B from his front right hex, player A tries to parry this attack, he has to reach across the body of player B to make the parry, ( My assumptions are that B isn't hurt by the sharp pointy going by him (-1), and that this is not easy so there are penalties to it. based on the penalties for Striking into Close Combat (BS p.392)(-2) Total (-3). the unready or dropped weapon is for the chance that your arm is bumped. (note: an edit the first post the roll is against DX or Weapon Skill).

Blocking: shields have no reach, so in example above, player A would have to step into player Bs hex, I don't count this move against player As' retreat options, but do penalize him (note: an edit to first post the roll is against DX or shield, also if you make the roll your shield is still ready, but defense rolls are at -2 (not -4), If you fail the roll shield is unready and defense rolls are at -4 while you regain your balance).

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Why not just use the rules for Sacrificial Parry and Shield Wall Training (both on PU:2 page 7, and also IIRC in GURPS Martial Arts)

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

I don't have MA so I haven't seen its write-up, but as I understand the concept not only do you have a person on your left and right but they do as well, the last man in line is exposed, and would not gain the benefits of the formation, also my mage with 1 pt in broadsword and 1 pt in shield may not want to put any points into an esoteric Martial Arts perk, but may need to save a friend.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

No it only requires that you be standing next to the person you are blocking for. If you allow them as a regular combat options you completely nerf Sacrificial Parry and half-nerfs Shield Wall Training. This might not be a problem, but will certainly make people who take those traits irritated, so you should make it clear they aren't allowed.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Ill admit I vaguely see it as a case where it might penalize your own defense, parrying a blow thats not aimed at you draws your sword away more than one at you

I dont recall it being a hugely problematic thing though from my memories of LARPing

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

How So?
A little back ground first, I was a gamer for about 10 years, but haven't gamed in about 7 years, the only books I have to date is basic set and Ultra tech.
Lets take my character with 1 pt. in broadsword and 1 pt in shield. he saw one of the combat characters parry a blow aimed at another character in the last fight, now he finds that he needs to try to do it to. he does NOT have Sacrificial Parry. My questions: 1. can he try to do this? 2.what skill would it be based on? 3. What penalty would I have to that skill? 4. what does Sacrificial parry give me?

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

If somebody uses up a combat perk slot in order to get a perk, and then it turns out that there's a house rule that effectively gives anyone that perk for free then he's probably going to be annoyed that the GM didn't tell him that in advance, or at least when he saw it on the character's sheet.

By RAW, no. If you wanted to allow it it should be based on Broadsword Parry. I suppose you could back engineer Sacrificial Parry and assume that it actually just buys off a penalty rather than allows a completely new option. In which case then it should probably be Parry-2.The ability to parry attacks made on allies standing next to you if your weapon has enough Reach.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

I was kind of operating from the assumption that intercepting the attack allowed the blocking/parrying etc to become the target of the attack. Not to parry the attack and negate any successful strike.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

can you site your source book and page please.
This sound like a breakdown in the rule system going from 3e to 4e. One of the unique aspects of GURPS is it use of defaults, except for double defaults and extremely complex and SUBTLE skills/actions, if you can think of it you can try it.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

I'm not sure what you mean. Jumping into an attack meant for someone else is Sacrificial Dodge. Why would you parry or block an attack into yourself? Why would it ever be preferable to just deflecting the blow in the first place?
Like I said earlier PU:2 p. 7 has both perks. Shield Wall Training is on MA page 51 but is identical to the write-up in PU:2.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

So I got PU 2, and became a little disturbed but I'll bring that up in a new thread.
As pertains to this one, sacrificial parry and shield-wall training has written do not state that others can't try to do them, it also fails to mention what penalties are involved. Penalties others would have and what penalties these remove.

More importantly these are NOT perks, they are techniques (as are many of the combat perks). Anything you can TRAIN in (shield-wall training), or that require specialization are Skills or sub-skills (task or techniques). that's the disturbing part.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Why can't you train a perk? Often some particular trained response would be vastly overpriced as a technique. Compare the Basic Set version of Off-Hand Weapons Training with the Martial Arts version.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

That there's what you call a RULES HOLE!
I don't have MA but did get PU2, and I almost missed it, since it is not listed as combat perk, but a skill perk, and is not called Off-Hand Weapons Training, but called Off-Hand Training. It also refers you to p. B14, not p. B232.
It should apply only to non-combat skills.
And again it is a learned skill something you can pick up during a campaign, as a general rule perks should chosen a character creation.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

No, it's fully intended that it applies to combat skills. The technique from the Basic Set is deprecated in favor of the perk.
Perks not being acquired after character creation is not any sort of established rule.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

It costs 4 points to buy off the penalty for a single skill with the technique version. Ambidexterity costs only a single point more, and applies to all skills.
Why?
Why? You can't one day decide to pack a bug-out bag and leave it by the door? Or get a dog? Or hone your awesome mental command of the EM spectrum to let you produce a flashlight effect?
errata@sjgames.com

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

G is for generic, there is no errata for this change for basic set, MA is a melee combat sourcebook, (not a World Sourcebook) so the rules from one source to another should by consistent.

[/QUOTE]Perks not being acquired after character creation is not any sort of established rule.[/QUOTE]

Define: any sort of established= if the GM permits p. B32. Where as the GM must approve all changes to characters the book does not bother to state that for skills

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

That's not how it works. The rules of rules precedence, such as they are, don't cut that way.
This is true as best I can tell, but doesn't seem at all significant.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Actually it does.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

I agree there is a point cost problem here.
the write-up says all defense roll, but do not mention attack rolls. See main-gauche p. B208

packed bag, is not an advantage or a skill, rolling to see if you packed a toothbrush is against IQ.
A dog is not an ally or a dependent, beware the cat ladies.
mental command of the EM spectrum (advantage, psi power),produce a flashlight effect skill

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

I stand corrected, however it would be easier to get a GM to let you spend 4 pts. on veterinary, and 1 pt. on riding, than spend the 5 pts. Animal Friend

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

That's entirely up to the GM, though I would find the reverse being true rather odd.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the matter at hand, in any case.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Which is fixed by costing it as one point. The only way that you could do that with techniques is with fractional points, which 4e doesn't use.
I'm not sure what you mean, it says:
This certainly includes attacking with the off-hand.
Furthermore:
On Alert (Power Ups 2 page 15)
A dog can be an ally or a dependent. If you want to have a super loyal super smart super violent attack dog/magical familiar in my games you'd best pay points for it. However since we were talking about perks, I was specifically thinking of Pet (Power Ups 2 page 18).
What skill is that? I was talking about Illumination(Power Ups 2 page 10).
Only if you earned 5 cp in one session and used both those skills significantly.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

My bad didn't turn the page.
On Alert: excellent perk (no skill roll), but if I tell the GM my character packs a bag and puts by the door before he goes to sleep. do I have to pay a point.
Pet: excellent perk (no skill roll, can affect reaction rolls), if you don't get benefits, or penalties (don't spend or get points) a dog is just a dog.
Illumination: Excellent perk, (no skill roll)

I think Perks are a Great idea, my concern is using perks as means to manipulate skill rolls without paying to raise the skill level.

Note: no perk should provide a wealth, social standing, or combat bonus. p. B100.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

The point means that you don't have to tell the GM about your Bug-out-bag every time your character sleeps.
Sure, but you said that you can't get a perk after play starts. What if I want a cute shoulder dragon in play?
What if your super learns how to do this later, rather than before the game starts?
Isn't that why you are restricted in the number of Style Perks that you can get based on how many points you've spent on skills?
It then goes on to say that it can give a bonus in limited circumstances. Clearly "combat bonus" in that sentence refers to a bonus to many rolls in combat.

Re: Blocking attacks against another character.
 

Unless the dog oh I don't know, Lassie, Benji , Scooby or Scrappy Do, Astro, K-9...