[Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

In Fantasy world which is on average TL2-3,but has Plate armour from TL4(Knights in shining armour syndrome),what should be progression in costs of higher TL armour?

If TL2 Armour prices are as listed,what modifier to cost should TL3 and TL4 armours get?

Same question for weapons.

Thanks

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Whatever fits your view of your world, but that iron based armor is competing with the bronze version, so would need to be same cost or cheaper to see much use.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

You can use the anachronistic equipment rules from the Basic Set.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Bronze is TL1 and is actually more expensive at later TLs when people learned how to smelt Iron which is most abundant metal on earth.

Thanks,Do you know what page thats on ,or chapter?

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

He may be referring to Chapter 1, page 27, in the box under Tech Level and Equipment.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Box on 478.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Yes and that smelting problem is a large part of what made it TL4. Thus as LT notes bronze armor is the "normal" way to make plate armor at lower TLs, so any anacronistic iron armor must compete with it.

Thus if you want to make steel plate earlier TL you have to think of how the armor is worked and how that affects the cost. (Thus the view of how it fits your setting)

One possible way is ofcourse say "mages did it".. as in some sort of commonly avaible magic spell or effect is used in the production.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

If mages make it then how does that affect cost? The whole point of iron is that is more available and thus cheaper than bronze. If this isn't the case in your game world then bronze would be the dominant metal for weapons and armour for a much much longer period of time. LT already states that you can have full suits of bronze plate armour at TL1. The only anachronistic parts are little things like TL4 sliding rivets that help to improve articulation.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

One way to have articulate TL4 iron/steel plate exist within a predominantly TL3 fantasy world is to give a minority race {Dwarves for example} a good tallent for smithing and a TL +1 {smithing} advantage then note that they don't breed in anywhere near the numbers to take over or won't do so for other reason {psychology , religion , whatever} .

The armour will thus be a higher tech import for any player race but the producer {whom pays in character points for the racial advantages that create the siituation} which I'm pretty sure is covered somewhere .
If the producing race is small enough in number , the costs could be even higher .
This way plate armour becomes sufficiently more expensive and rarer than it historically was , thus allows less advanced armours to still be common .




If you make bronze cheaper by making copper and especially tin more common in your world , bronze armour and weapons could still be viable choices verses iron if you wish that too . just ajust the CF to suit your tastes and the prices of copper and tin if you take note of such in your games {for trade , loot value etc} .


Cost plays a big part in what military equiptment is used .
The F22 isn't the most powerful fighter that can be built , merely the most powerful that can be afforded {though some might argue the Sukoi T-50 is superior} .
Caseless ammunition assault rifles could have been in service 20 years ago , but cost got in the way {and still does} .
Chinas' type 99 MBT is about on par with the best MBTs in the world {especially after the latest improvements are added} , but China cannot afford to equip their entire Army with it .

Historically TL4 articulated steel plate was cheap enough to be bought by wealthy Men at Arms and issued to common troops as munitions plate which thus displaced various other less protective armours , but if the cost had been , say 4 times higher , that might not have happened {only the richest nobles could have afforded it} .
Same could go for bronze too {with the cost being cheaper} .

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

One question, is it possible to harden bronze to get similar results to "Hardened steel" (Low Tech, p. 110)? Would it be permissible to add "Hardened bronze" to a bronze plate, for the same CF? (Possible even if ahistorical, this is for a DF game)

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Not without magic.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Fantasy Tech 1 has aluminum bronze, which gives the same result, though. It's also nicely corrosion resistant.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Most copper alloys are corrosion resistant.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

But how long would they last on an aquatic race?
Also, should coral armor count as bone, or horn?

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Ok, thanks!

And as for Aluminium Bronze, well, remember that Fantasy Tech also includes Azzalum, and I don't see anything forbidding hardened Azzalum ;)

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Copper alloys are popular in marine environments because of their corrosion resistance. It should last at least as long as iron does on land.
Live coral might be tough enough to be treated as horn. Dead coral is brittle like bone. Note that bone should be ablative, not semi-ablative. Might it be possible for an aquatic race to make armor by growing live coral on an armor-shaped framework? It would even repair itself (though not quickly).

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Yeah, but in my case I'm not obsessed with bronze because of TL concerns. I just have Elves who prefer not to wear ferrous metal. Azzalum sounds like something the elite Elf-hating Orc warriors might want to have their swords made of, though :)

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Nice. I would never have guessed that.

Hee. Like some crabs that use living sea anemones like boxing gloves, and living coral as camouflage.
I love that idea, and it makes for interesting background.
But coral needs to be within photosynthesis distance to survive. That may keep them from fighting creatures from the twilight depths. Nice division of troop type though.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

LT Companion 2 has a box about spiked armour. Those rules should apply here also.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

I don't have them at the moment, but didn't you include spiked armor in one of your articles? If so, then are those in LTC 2 that much different? I'm not asking for details, of course.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

It is basically the Short Spines advantage (p. B88) with a few minor changes.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Well, they do have an issue of turning green...

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Thanks for answers.

Maybe to clarify a little:

I wanted to have "Empires" Legion and arm it as Romans of TL2(Lorica segmentata,shield,gladius,pillum,javelins) and mix mages in(though for now I think Ill set enchantment costs at *10;to avoid general hassle with magic items and their overall availability).

I want to have Feudal Nobility(poorer ones will have equip as crusaders,medium wealth would have half plates,really rich would have full plates).

Also I wanted to classify Legionare with Lorica Segmentata as Good equip quality.

Hence ,why Im asking for some reasonable basis for scalling costs across TL of equipment.

Id like to avoid setting Dwarves as TL+1,and that all humans import Full Plates from them...though if there is no reasonable explenation for sliding costs of equip. Ill have to do just that(thanks for idea).

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

I wouldn't be surprised if the costs of obsolete equipment actually went up in many cases.

For instance, given the differences between regular mail and butted mail, it seems that the cost of mail is almost entirely labor costs, not material costs. Labor generally gets more expensive with TL. For the cost of mail to remain the same you'd need to either increase production efficiency or have it made by cheaper workers.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Well idea is that TL2 armours are standard,widespread,TL3 armours are rare and more expensive and TL4 Full articulated plate is extremly rare and expensive.

Though ,question is:What scaling in prices would seem reasonable?

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

And the question is, are you trying to make up a scaling in price that will justify this, or are you hoping for it to be justified by realistic considerations?

Because the latter may simply not work out for you. And if you're trying to ask the former, you probably need to be clear on that.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Im looking for most plausible compromise.If thats not possible to somewhat realistic extent Ill just give Dwarves(or like) TL+1 metallurgy and hand waive rest.

Though Im interested even in "Artificial" scaling of prices(since higher TL armours are more efficient weight wise).

Maybe solution in end will be to set TL2/3 as norm,with TL2 stuff cheaper(to minimise difference of TL)...as said..Im just looking for most believable option(or barring that most believable compromise).

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

I'd note that there's basically no TL3 armor in Low Tech at all. You get Mail and Plates, which seems to have been used mostly outside of Europe, and Jousting Mail which isn't really field armor. And banded mail, but that's the end of it.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

Yes,but difference in weight for same DR (heavy segmented armour vs mail and plates) is 50%...and thats clearly superiour.

Re: [Low Tech]Cost of armour and TL
 

True, though mail and plates probably is not eligible for the Heavy Plate treatment. And it only has DR4 vs crushing, but it's still lighter than DR4 segmented plate.

However, if you're going for the central/western Europe medley typical of 'generic fantasy', it seems as if mail and plates wouldn't turn up.