Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

Thanks :)

As I also noted in my OP, I am aware that it's mostly my own fault. It partly stems from me stealing D&D dungeons for the game, and those are primarily "dungeon room with monsters".

However, as you guys also suggest, most of the ways to counter a tank like this is by punishing his low mobility. But that doesn't help me as the Wizard routinely cast Haste and/or Flight on him.

As for "this is how you make a tank-killer"-ideas. They are great, but I already know how to do that. My point was exactly that I didn't wanted to fill my dungeons with monsters specifically designed to kill him. I don't mind (and already use) the odd monster that has some attacks that ignore DR or target Will and so on, but I want to keep those rare.

Making "mass attack" with creatures so the tank cant' be everywhere is a good one, as it means the other players also get to do something. And it is something I use, although not very often.

---

I think the conclusion is that I have maybe just been a bit lazy in my encounter designs. Which is mostly because I steal from old modules. Well, we ended last game at "the boss fight", after that I will see if I have time to make some more all-round challenging encounters. All though I still love my brute mobs :(

Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

I got a similiar problem with a Mithical Greece Campaign (DF in other clothes).

A tipical trick is to change the enviroment: a sailing section usually works well with most dwarf-like tanks (since many like to dislike water and be unable to swim), shield user could be tricked in the open by quicker enemies and be flanked or outgunned.

Big enemies could hit with massive knockback or body lock with claws/jaws, same as elusive assassins trained to arm lock and target chinks in armor; disarm and feint are the tipical boss skills.

Luckily the combat is not only a matter of "to hit" skill, damage and DR: think outside the box and hit them with something unexpected.

Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

I totally understand, because I love brutes too. But your player has developed his character under the pressure of waves and waves of brutes - he's now an optimized brute-smasher due to largely only needing to deal with brutes.

There's two ways to spend character points - one's with a pre-determined vision of where you want your character to develop to, the other is in response to challenges you encounter. It's very hard to stick to the first, when you're under pressure from the second - and if the the challenges tend to be of a very specific type, it's very very easy to just keep spending points on the same things.

Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

Sounds like he won't have any points sunk into Perception or into social skills of any kind, so you can have plenty of things for the party to face where he won't be too useful and other party members will get to shine. Don't think of it as messing with him, but rather as providing opportunities for the other PCs to showcase their abilities that don't involve a straight stand up melee. E.g.,

Highly mobile opponents that can Move and Attack to get a hit and run attack in and then dart away before he can counterattack - but a swashbuckler or other mobile fighter PC will have more luck.

Opponents that stand off and use ranged attacks by preference - even though he's got good armor, they can target vulnerable points or just get lucky, and he can't close distance very quickly.

Magic-using opponents. Sure, he's got decent resistance rolls, but not foolproof ones. Spellcasters are a real threat, and he'll need the support of any wizards, etc. in the group to deal with them while he slogs through the ground troops.

Traps. Not likely to spot them in time, not able to outrun or dodge most of them.

Encounters with hordes or large creatures where the logical response is to run - and he's got a Move 3. Maybe a mage will be nice and cast Haste on him - or he gets to play heroic rearguard and die delaying the foe so the rest of the party can get away.

Special attacks, like with corrosive slimes.

Traps. Magic. Special attacks. Needing to run. None of these are unfair to the party as a whole, but can keep this one PC from appearing more effective than all the rest.

Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

Well, in one on one melee combat, your knights ballywick, combat runs on 4 axis. Attack, damage, Active Defesnes, and DR. Key them into that and you'll have somehting fit to go toe to toe with the knight, but maybe not suitable for the rest of the party (DR to high etc).

Generally, the advice on your tank not being able to be everywhere at once has helped me. Horde creatures (Zombies yay!), or more than one 'boss' creature pretty much means that the Knight cant cover everyone and maybe even due to the multiplicity of incomming attacks may not be able to cover himself fully.

As far as using D&D modules, ask yourself if your using the right ones, and if your perception of those adventures fits the DF builds. The 250 pt df templates generally dont 'line up' with 1st level expectaitons and are usually much higher as at 250 points and lvl 20 skills, these guys are obviously 'seasoned' adventurers.

I have tuned D&D modules of about 5-7th level to 185 DF-ish builds (Deserts of Desolation, White Plume Mountain) and had some good success. For the level of optimizing that appears to be going on and the love of metal on meat combat, maybe G1-3 might be more in lines of what your looking for. SOmehting 10th level-ish on up?

Nymdok

Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

You could have a wizard that made the dungeon have cast a permanant Heat Metal spell for all metal inside the dungeon.

Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

Why not a permanent Heat Flesh spell instead?

Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

I remember the 'hallway of induction plates' in the original White Plume Mountain that heated up metal as you walked through. Those were fun! :)

Sadly thats kind of a 'one time one shot' solution. Not every dungeon is gonna have heat metal across the lot of it.

Nymdok

Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

I believe the goal is to challenge the tank-knight's player, not kill the entire party including non-tanks.

Re: How powerful are your DF PC's?
 

You can keep using brutes if your brutes start using better <or more suicidal> tactics.

Better:

Grapple; if the first orc swings his sword at your PC and nothing happens, then the next three aren't going to keep swinging there swords around aimlessly, there going to grapple your knight, pull him to the ground, and <baring the other PCs interfering> pull off his helmet before stabbing him in the face/neck.

Blunt Trauma: If the troll with the club can't harm your knight directly he might instead try to harm him indirectly; smash him into walls.

Flee! Cowardly goblins are not going to keep desperately fighting against a guy who is immune to there attacks and mows through 4 of them every second, they are going to turn tail, and run, as pointed out before your PC is likely in heavy encumberance, at three move he's never going to catch those goblins so he can either start burning fatigue, or other faster party members do the damage.

Ranged! Not every brute need use a club or axe, thrown boulders, hand balista; or even just lots and lots of arrows, combine this with Flee! above and your PC is either burning fatigue like no one's business or basically just becomes a stationary ward against meele combat.

Opening Volly (similar to ranged); it is not unusual for monsters to have some sort of ranged attack; having the room full of orcs open with a volly of bodkin arrow before tossing there bows/crossbows aside to move in with swords to finish the job will mean that your tank of a PC is rightly penalized for his low move score- he likely also walks at the front of the group and will also therefore take more of the bolts then the rest, who are more likely to make dodge rolls, and less impacted by the armor divisor.

Water: What are a bunch of under-armored under-armed orcs to do when they fear the approach of invincible men in metal armor? Get wet. Flood the whole damned dungeon, ditch there ineffective leather armor, toss the swords and get some knives and garrotes and swimming skill- stick to trying to make the PCs unable to swim and let drowning do the rest!


Suicidal
Acid and fire: Potions are cheap when they are dangerous and unstable, arm your goons with a few vials of greek fire, acid, poison, or even just powdered lye and water, parrying is useless, it will still splash on you, dodging is the only way to avoid it, and hitting those goons in meele combat before there done throwing there potions away is just as bad at being struck by them <The bad guy dies horribly of course>

Environment: Were in a volcano right? The heroes are coming, start digging into the lava vein! Having the enemies try to use the environment, especially from well spread locations means that everyone has to do something to stop there plans, releasing lava, collapsing bridges,

If orcs are willing to throw there lives away rushing mr indestructible, then they should be willing to do so while covered in vials of the combination components for vitriol, your PC will be much less eager to wade through 4 orcs per second if every tenth orc turns into a spray of armor and weapon dissolving acid when hit.