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CousinX 09-29-2010 04:38 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godogma (Post 1055802)
As for monowire look up bucky tubes. Not superscience, monomolecular wire exists. Buckminster fullerine tubes? Bah, I can't remember what the full name of it is, but bucky tubes is what it was called last I checked.

If I'm not misremembering due to extreme lack of sleep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk (Post 1055806)
They don't have anything like the characteristics of cyberpunk/sci-fi monowire though. For one thing, they're not gonna cut through your skin, they're just gonna hit you limply.

Exactly. Monofilament wire does exist, but it's not the omni-lethal "cut-through-anything" superweapon that cyberpunk fiction makes it out to be. (At least, not yet...)

Godogma 09-29-2010 04:41 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
I believe that it causes more problems than it solves and also doesn't fit the TL of the SR universe and also would require immense effort on the part of the GM to keep from overpowering the setting in the party's favor.

I also doubt its possible from a technological standpoint, especially to the degree mentioned. Unless of course the decker has compartmentalized mind and such things as that.

However, I do like the page in the article with the cyberdecks. Seems neat how easily that was worked up and how cheap they are as well. And however circular the discussion was thanks for the entertainment for the day.

Anyone have any inclinations on how to work out rigging? It may be possible that I'm missing something obvious in the GURPS books at this point as I am having another bout of sleeplessness but I'm interested in everyone's take on it.

Having never played a rigger before its an interesting topic to see how it could be done in GURPS.

CousinX 09-29-2010 04:41 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 1055801)
Of course EM fields can have effects on electronics.

That doesn't mean that it's even possible to build a device that uses induction to perform precise remote manipulations of arbitrary devices. Without pure superscience that allows you to remotely generate arbitrary EM fields, and superscience scanners to analyze the target so you know what fields you want to induce.

Not possible now. Will it be in 10 years? 20? 50? 100? I don't know ... but it's at least as plausible as anything else in Ultra-Tech.

And again, Van Eck Phreaking (a scanner to analyze the bit-states of an electronic target) is real, not superscience.

Godogma 09-29-2010 04:42 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CousinX (Post 1055810)
Exactly. Monofilament wire does exist, but it's not the omni-lethal "cut-through-anything" superweapon that cyberpunk fiction makes it out to be. (At least, not yet...)

I never said it was lethal yet *chuckles* just that it existed :)

Crakkerjakk 09-29-2010 04:43 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godogma (Post 1055813)
Anyone have any inclinations on how to work out rigging? It may be possible that I'm missing something obvious in the GURPS books at this point as I am having another bout of sleeplessness but I'm interested in everyone's take on it.

Having never played a rigger before its an interesting topic to see how it could be done in GURPS.

Buy possession with machine only, maybe gadget limitations if it's part of your deck, design the drones either as vehicles or PCs, and you use your mental attributes but the drone's physical attributes when you're jumped in. Take penalties for jamming, etc.

Ulzgoroth 09-29-2010 04:43 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CousinX (Post 1055799)
It's no more superscience than monowire or advanced holography. The distinction between "realistic" and "superscience" ultra-technology is arbitrary, based on a few people's layman opinions of what might be plausible in the future. If you don't understand how something works, it's easy to label it as "superscience." That doesn't mean it won't show up in the future.

At the fringes, it can be blurry. Spaceships uses 'limited superscience' to refer, if I understand correctly, to things that are physically possible but technically problematic.

But the distinction isn't arbitrary. If you call antigravity and reactionless engines realistic, you're using some definition of 'realistic' that doesn't concern itself with not flagrantly contradicting known physics.

The 'I don't know what's wrong, so there's no such thing' argument really holds no water.

Magical precision induction might be limited superscience. But even before getting into the problems of creating the desired field, we're talking about performing low-level hardware manipulation on unknown hardware, that you can't precisely locate, while it's moving. How are you even getting started? If your setting has sensors that can analyze the guts of someone's cyberware in realtime mid-firefight, that's got a lot of implications before we get into trying to hack them.

CousinX 09-29-2010 04:50 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godogma (Post 1055813)
I believe that it causes more problems than it solves and also doesn't fit the TL of the SR universe and also would require immense effort on the part of the GM to keep from overpowering the setting in the party's favor.

I totally get that argument, and I certainly don't begrudge someone using the elements of a game that they like, and ditching the ones that they don't. For example, wizards in my DF games can cast Healing spells, D&D Purism be damned. Why? Because I said so.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Godogma (Post 1055813)
However, I do like the page in the article with the cyberdecks. Seems neat how easily that was worked up and how cheap they are as well. And however circular the discussion was thanks for the entertainment for the day.

Cool! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godogma (Post 1055813)
Anyone have any inclinations on how to work out rigging? It may be possible that I'm missing something obvious in the GURPS books at this point as I am having another bout of sleeplessness but I'm interested in everyone's take on it.

Having never played a rigger before its an interesting topic to see how it could be done in GURPS.

I've been giving this some thought as well, though I haven't written anything down yet. Transhuman Space has a bunch of stuff about teleoperation and robotic drones ("cybershells"), which seem a good fit.

Fred Brackin 09-29-2010 04:50 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CousinX (Post 1055810)
Exactly. Monofilament wire does exist, but it's not the omni-lethal "cut-through-anything" superweapon that cyberpunk fiction makes it out to be. (At least, not yet...)

.....and this was pointed out in the Shadowtalk in the very first edition of the Street Samurai's Guide. :)

Monowire edges actually had a very modest effect in the game mechanics too.

Fred Brackin 09-29-2010 04:53 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 1055801)
Of course EM fields can have effects on electronics.

That doesn't mean that it's even possible to build a device that uses induction to perform precise remote manipulations of arbitrary devices. Without pure superscience that allows you to remotely generate arbitrary EM fields, and superscience scanners to analyze the target so you know what fields you want to induce.

Just incidentally, EM fields aren't going to effect the photons in a fiber optic system anyway. I don't know of anything that would.

Crakkerjakk 09-29-2010 04:53 PM

Re: GURPS Shadowrun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin (Post 1055825)
.....and this was pointed out in the Shadowtalk in the very first edition of the Street Samurai's Guide. :)

Monowire edges actually had a very modest effect in the game mechanics too.

Yeah, but wasn't the damage code for monofilament whips like 10S?


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