GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Seriously. The last campaign I ran started out in Spirit of the Century, but after great table annoyance with the rules (especially Aspects) I decided to switch it to GURPS and all was well.

Fast forward a few months. I have left said group for various issues, and starting a game with a new group. I originally pitched a particular fantasy idea for Reign, which the group agreed sounded good. So, I start giving out setting details, and they start sending character ideas. Reign, I discovered, simply wasn't flexible enough to handle some of what they wanted.

(And there was also the issue of shoehorning in the Company rules for no real reason, but that's more my issue than anything else).

So, naturally, I said, hey, GURPS, and nobody disagreed, and at least one player was happy with the idea (she'd played it with me before in a cyberpunk game).

Thing is, when I think of GURPS, I feel like it's easy, familiar, and the like. I also feel like it's just so damned logical and easy to adjudicate as a GM, that I'm finding it's harder and harder for me to use other systems now. The logic thing even holds for the illogical bits like magic and so on.

This is the second time in a row I've given some other system a pass in favor of GURPS.

Is it the same for you? Or almost? If so, why?

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Well said. I understand what you're saying very well. And I'm sure I'm very far of being the only one (besides you) thinking in that way around here!

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

This surprises me - we really loved Aspects, and I hardly see how I could convert a SotC campaign to GURPS, while preserving its 'feel'.
Obviously it's a matter of taste.

It has been the same for us. For the past few years, we've been playing exclusively GURPS.
We really like the system "logic", the very free character creation, and the ability to play in different settings/campaigns withouth learning new rules.
If I am going to play with a "traditional" RPG system, it will be GURPS.
All traditional RPG rulesets are very similar to each other, but GURPS is just better at what it does than the other rules system I know.

Lately, though, we've been very impressed by some narrativist/indie RPGs, such as Dogs in the Vineyard and Spirit of the Century/FATE. Those systems are really different from traditional RPGs (more different than I imagined they could be) and they create a different feel, almost a different kind of game.

Those games, by virtue of their abstractness and story-orientedness, also lack some (perceived) flaws of GURPS that have been bothering me lately (excessive details and care for minutiae, intrinsic unbalance in the power and magic systems, somewhat clumsy/unnecessary mechanics to achieve relatively simple game effects).

So from now on I think I will stick to two systems rather than one:
- GURPS for realistic, detailed low-powered campaigns where tactical combat, gear, encumbrance and the precise definition of skills are meant to play an important role;
- FATE / Spirit of the Century for (possibly cinematic and/or high-powered) campaigns that focus on story, acting and psychological development more than strict realism and details. And for single-session, quick adventures with little time for prep work.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Same here.

It took me a while to convince my gaming group. But now we are all very happy playing GURPS. Last week one of the other players said he could not imagine playing any other game.

While I love checking out other systems, in the end I always come to the conclusion that GURPS best suits my gaming tasts.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Not remotely. I run more GURPS than anything else, but it's only one of three generic systems I use (the other two are BESM and FUDGE). And I've tried a lot of dedicated systems and liked some: Amber Diceless, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Mage: The Ascension, and Toon all gave me good campaigns.

Bill Stoddard

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I'm pretty much in the same camp as the OP.

GURPS 4/e has become my preferred game system for pretty much everything.

I tried to like D20/OGL, I really did - and it never really took well with me. Heck, I even tried being a player in a D&D 4th edition game. The whole time in that campaign I kept thinking : "This would work out easier with GURPS, and make more sense too."

The only system I'm contemplating running besides GURPS is SAVAGE WORLDS. There is enough of a similiarity in some parts that I can see running it with minimal problems.


- Ed Charlton

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Same here. I quit d20 after their wrenching transition to 4th ed, and started looking around for various new game systems to use. The original intent was to find something suitable for a Ravenloft Gothic horror fantasy game, but it quickly branched out into looking at universal systems and figuring out which one was the best for me.

GURPS still isn't quite the most "universal" system out there. (I'd argue that TriStat dX was actually moreso than GURPS is, if only because GURPS is reality-checked against a human-centric zero point.) But it is the best blend of versatility and sophistication.

Plus I'm looking to scale back the amount of money I spend on RPGs. With GURPS I'm fairly certain it's going to be the last system I ever need to buy.

I get the impression I'm not alone either. A lot of former DnD fans came to GURPS with the advent of DnD 4th ed, and a lot of those appear to be staying put with GURPS.

(This means we have Steve Jackson to thank for sucking in and retaining all the gamers so they don't buy other stuff, thus killing off the industry, etc. ;) )

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I hear ya Mencelus. Long, long gone are my days of having any desire at all to learn a new system every time I want to switch settings/genres. The only serious contender to GURPS I've ever flirted with was Fudge - until after tinkering with it for a few months I realized I was basically just re-creating GURPS!

I've come to discover I usually enjoy a lot of "G" in my "RPG", and imo GURPS is the best one. So while I still read other systems, for inspiration and enjoyment, I never run anything else.

While I understand the theory of those who prefer to use multiple systems to retain a particular "feel", and happily wish them all the best and many joyful nights of gaming goodness, for myself that has never been an issue, across a wide and varied bunch of games. GURPS can be stripped down to little more than Bang! skills, or "here's your target number, roll 3d6"; or ramped all the way up to "okay, your Guns(Rifle) skill is 16, -5 for range, -2 for visibility, -4 for hit location, +1 for bracing, +3 for aiming, you need to roll against a 9".

Basically it's a big enough umbrella to cover everything I've ever wanted to do, so yeah - it's the only game for me.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

There are so many games out there, why choose just one?
I mean, I like pizza, but I don't want to eat it every night.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I'm sometimes almost decided to get FUDGE 10º Anniversary Edition, but it's expensive and I don't think I'm going to use it very much. This system gave me mixed results.

If I should choose *just one* role playing game between the different RPG games and systems, currently GURPS would be my choice.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Maybe you don't have enough time for playing many of them.

Specially if you're the GM, because you need to learn different rules systems & settings in a greater degree than the players.

Money can be a factor, too, because many role playing games aren't free ;-)

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

In my eyes, RPG is the pizza, the system is the means of delivery. You're gonna get pizza anyway, the question is: how?

GURPS is a great method, although I can't compare as much as the veterans around. I've played RISUS, FUDGE, MERP, Storyteller, DnD 3.5, d20 and GURPS. The only system I've ever though worth playing besides GURPS is RISUS. Oh, I've played 3d&T, which is a puke-worthy sorry excuse for a national (brazilian) RPG, which I definitely do not recommend anyone try.

I'm sure there are some good RPGs in their own niches, but as a generic rules-system, GURPS kicks behinds. It can't truly compete with dedicated, genre specific systems (never played, but hear a lot about Toon), at least not without great expertise from the GURPS-GM and players. And some particularities of each system make them ideal to portray specific settings (Call of Cthulhu and Horror games, for instance), but GURPS does pretty well there too.

It even does stuff it didn't do so well in 3e better, like supers (definite improvement).

I can't really thing of something I can't do with GURPS, and I've run some pretty weird stuff.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Which is how I look at it. . .we are always eating pizza, but they flavor is very different depending on the toppings.

This aspect has allowed me to coax my players into playing many different campaigns. . .once they figured out that a crossbow shoots like a rifle shoots like a blaster/laser, they were much less reluctant to change campaign styles. No "aw man, I just figured out the rules" or "so now I gotta buy new books?". Nope, just create a new PC with the right skill set and we are ready to play!!

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Since I got sick of d20 (years ago) I've preferred to use GURPS for almost everything. There are a handful of exceptions:

1) World of Darkness. I've run nWoD games (Changeling and Geist, mostly) with their core system, because I've run them for players that were familiar with and happy with that system. That said, I'd happily run a GURPS coversion or even just a not-really-WoD GURPS personal horror game. There's a lot of nWoD rules bits that bug me, especially in combat, and the grittiness of GURPS is a good fit for the genre anyway.

2) Exalted. A lot of the fun of Exalted lies in the cinematic nature of stunts, which can be hard to pull off in GURPS's one-second combat scale, and in the insanely huge list of special powers, of which any given character is likely to have twenty or more. Huge powers lists tend to work poorly in GURPS. Also, a lot of Exalted is focused on absolute 'it just works' effects, especially defenses, which GURPS tends to price at infinite cost.

3) Ars Magica. GURPS could handle Ars Magica adventures pretty well, especially with the magic options in Thaumatology, but Ars Magica makes down-time, lab work, magic item crafting, and even aging more interesting than GURPS does.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Because a lot of them are crap.

I'm a big fan of experimenting and I would never limit myself to just one game, but I can tell you that many of my forays into other games have been a waste of my time. Many of them are just bad D&D rip-offs, or half-baked ideas that never saw completion (many Indie games are like that: A neat die mechanic and little more). Some are great, but create the sort of game I'm not interested in, or create a perfectly good game, but I think another game does it better.

Like I said, I'm a fan of experimenting, but some of my players have reached the point where they don't really want to play anything other than GURPS either. The system has so much depth that they could spend years exploring it without growing bored. It has a level of detail they really appreciate (especially when it comes to guns). They like D&D, but they like GURPS DF better NO HP grinding, no levels, more flexibility in making your background matter). They like WoD, but they dislike how coarsely the combat system is designed and how baked in Morality is (they do not share my fascination with Morality, alas), and point out that GURPS actually does low-powered horror better than WoD (and doesn't have wonky/crazy/overpowered dogs and cats and ravens that insta-kill people and such), and they think GURPS does sci-fi better than basically any system out there. And they speak from experience.

So I can see where Mencelus is coming from. I think you should always be open to new ideas, but just because something is new doesn't mean it's actually better, or even worth your time.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Learning how to do that gives me more options for finding just the right rules system for running a particular game. GURPS is a great engine, with a lot of flexibility, but there are things that other systems do better.

"The fox know many tricks. The hedgehog knows one."

Bill Stoddard

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I have found some games that were like that: Space 1889 (brilliant setting, crap rules), Godlike, In Nomine. In every case my players started complaining about the awkward rules a few sessions in, and with good reason.

But I've had entirely satisfactory results with Amber Diceless, BESM, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Call of Cthulhu, DC Heroes, FUDGE, GURPS, Mage: The Ascension, RuneQuest II, and Toon. And I haven't run Changeling: The Dreaming, but I had a great time playing in it.

Bill Stoddard

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I've had great results with Weapons of the Gods, (new) World of Darkness, Everway, and a few others, so, like I said, I would never give up experimenting.

But I question your taste on Mage: the Ascension. In my experience, it doesn't work as advertised. It doesn't, in fact, work at all.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

A "right tool for the right job" sort of thing. As much as I like GURPS, I'd never use it for Star Wars (the d6 version handles it far better), for example. While GURPS is my go-to system in most cases, there are a few system I would use instead for very specific settings (if for some reason I ever ran supers, I'd dig out by yellow box Marvel Super Heroes).

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

In this, at least, we are in accord. Your reason is exactly the same as mine. I will name, for example, Toon, which to my mind is the most perfectly designed game system ever created for running a single specific genre.

Bill Stoddard

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I ran a campaign lasting two years or so with it that my players look back on as one of their favorites. It had the best freeform magic system I had ever seen till I ran Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Bill Stoddard

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I tend to run more GURPS than anything else, although I feel that my most successful games weren't GURPS.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I have used GURPS for SW and thought it did well except when vehicles come into play. GURPS has traditionally been terrible for providing rules for tactical vehicular combat and stats for the vehicles themselves. WWII changed that a little (and you changed it a lot), but in the 1980s there was no way I'd try Twilight 2000 for GURPS. Now, mmmmm, maybe. . .

The other thing is that I have a "reluctant" gaming group. They are not keen on trying new games; by changing genres without changing the ground rules, I am able to exercise a broader range of creativity without starting entirely from scratch.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I mentioned my problems with MtA before... and I did not get any better feel for it in the GURPS conversion :/
I like the rest of the Unisystem mechanics in Buffy, but I never really payed any attention to the magic system.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I thought it was brilliant. In fact, I wrote a rules addendum: a guide to GMs on how to roll for spell research efforts, based on a description of what the spell needed to do. Drop me a note with your e-mail if you'd like to see a copy.

Bill Stoddard

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Amen to that. GURPS Powers/Supers are RPG superheroes, and the rules are great as far as that goes. I've yet to see any RPG other than MSH that so fully describes the feel of a *comic book* superhero.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Wow, my thread grew!

In any case, it's good to hear others' experiences. A lot of you match mine. As I've said elsewhere, I can't be arsed to learn yet another set of rules. I liked experimenting too, and in fact I'm sure I'll buy other games and run them (for example, I'm a big Mongoose Traveller fan).

But for really running and trying stuff, I think it'll be GURPS. One complaint from my second to last group (and two of those people are helping to form the new group I'll play with next week) was that we switched games too often; the settings and story were liked, but not the system changes. I think, if I stick to GURPS for a bit, and go for different settings and such, everyone will be happy.

It's an experiment for me. I used to switch systems/games/settings every 3-4 months. Maybe its time to stick to something. I certainly feel so.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

A friend of mine a few years back used Heros System to run a sci-fi campaign with enhanced humans. (By a few, I mean back in the days of 3e GURPS, hence why he avoided it. It didn't do what he wanted)

He now wishes to resurrect that setting. I've shown him the GURPS books for 4e and explained to him how fast I could convert pretty much each of the character concepts he's explained, and even set up templates to create "enhanced" (who'd qualify for cheaper base stats up to a point but the template comes with it's flaws. Like unusual biochemistry) and "psychics" (Bester, Babylon 5. he likes that style)

I'll still run BASIC (percentile, Call of Cthulhu (same company)) on occasions when I don't want a rules heavy system for newbies (roll D100, get less than your % chance of success on the skill) and I'll still buy other systems. But GURPS is what I've ended up statting up things in (including a Battlefield 2142 TITAN)


Edit: Also, Ars Magica is good if you want that flavour and setting style and the ability to truly 'create' spells on the fly for mages.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

The biggest headache with comic book superheroes is they cover such a huge range--from the mystery men (Batman, Phantom ,etc) through the moderately powerful (Spider-man, Cage), through the powerhouses (Superman, Sliver Surfer, Thor, Hulk) to totally off the scale insane power level (Hal Parallax, Specter, Dark Phoenix, Mxyzptlk, Mad Jim Jaspers, etc)

I tried building the 1938 version of Superman under GURPS 3e rules and he was insane. The Silver Age just to get the minimum level of his powers was even more ridiculous.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Mayfair's 1st edition DC Heroes game demonstrated that Batman's normal punch (ST 5) KILLS the Joker (Body 2) automatically, so they instituted a 'Mother may I?' approach. You had to call lethal damage before rolling dice or it was automatically non-lethal.

The Spectre ata one point in the 1960s was fighting a major demon from Hell and they were picking up GALAXIES and hitting each other with them!

Green Lantern's organization is set at the center of the universe. Green Lantern has been to something called the Promethean Barrier, set at the end of the universe. He can get from one of those places to the other in a couple of hours.

What is exactly so friggin special about the Flash being able to run at lightspeed?

Emulating comics is good practice to familiarize yourself with a set of rules. It's bad play.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I Have to admit, I am a roleplayer now of 25 years, and I've played many systems ( AD&D - D&D - Tunnels & Trolls - Call of Cthulhu - Warhammer - Paranoia, well lets just say the list goes on a long way ), my point is that until Feb of this year when I met an interesting young man from my local gaming club, I had never played GURPS. Truthfully I never wanted to, I hadn't read the rules or then again even bothered to look at the cover of a GURPS book, But all this changed when he asked if he could run an adventure he wrote using the GURPS rules, so reluctantly, myself and my RPG group said OK.

Well to cut a long story short, I haven't enjoyed playing any other RPG's since then, I just cant get enough GURPS, I dont care what the genre is, it always works with GURPS. So now I play mostly GURPS ( but still play a little AD&D ) and am in the process of getting the GURPS 4ed core rules. I never realised I could like a system so much, but it's just sooooo bloody good.


GROM

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Well, sure, the lack of time is usually a disadvantage.

On the other hand, it's not like I were choosing arbitrarily a system -and I wouldn't recommend that to newbies! To nobody, actually. I remain open to experimentation with rules but it's not the same strong interest I had years ago. The rules, to me, need to be OK for letting me to concentrate for going deeper into other aspects of role playing, so 'flirting' with different systems just out of curiosity became very secondary for me. Also I'm not interested in each branch of modern fiction that is reflected in the role playing market. Yesterday night I saw Solomon Kane, the movie, and it was OK as a movie, but I wouldn't be interested in role playing in such setting (licensed to the Savage Worlds system), and the same happens concerning the Hellboy setting (licensed to SJG), or Star Wars, and a long etc.

After creating an insane amount of homebrew systems and GM/playing many different published role playing games and settings (AD&D 1º/2º/3.5º -Vanilla, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Eberron-, Aliens, Dark Conspiracy, Cyberpunk 2020, Rolemaster, GURPS, MERP, Mutantes en la Sombra, Aquelarre, Paranoia, The Call of Cthulhu, Vampire, FUDGE . . . I don't remember all of them), of course I know more than a single trick.

So I finally found the right rules system for my current goals concerning role-playing.

Earlier, I quoted FUDGE because sometimes I find myself missing such free-form way to looking at (and handling the) things. My best results with it were making introspective modern day role playing, without action nor violence, almost with no rules at all.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I'd like to run other games, but every time I suggest the idea of, say a CHAMPIONS campaign, or one of the oddball setting I have in the attic like Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, or even an old fashioned AD&D dungeon crawl, my wife Lute makes puppy eyes at me and says, "Couldn't we just run it in GURPS...?"

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I wish I could get folks to give me that look. I get an idea for a fantasy game, I get folks asking for D&D4, which I don't have a copy of. I get an idea for a sci-fi space pirate game, I get links to a ton of PDF-only systems that I can't afford and have never heard of. Or I get asked to run it in MaidRPG or BESM3... neither of which I have in dead-tree (PDFs make me go crosseyed, and my printer is low on ink as it is), or some other obscure system I'd have to learn.

Basically, it's impossible to get a game going in GURPS in my usual circles. I need a better IRC gaming group, or find a group out here in the middle of nowhere (I'm 10-20 miles from the nearest 'town' in any given direction).

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I've spawned a GURPS channel on Goodchatting. irc.goodchatting.com #gurps

Registered to me, but if any SJ games official reps want to take control of it, they are welcome to. I'll need someone to spawn a dicebot into it, and such, but that's presumably something the community can do.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

With me, it works the other way. I hand around a list of campaign ideas, including systems I might run them it. People can assign them priorities. But anything that's not on the list is something I'm not offering to run. If they don't want to play anything on the list, they can do without me as a GM.

I'm not recruiting them as "GURPS players"; I'm recruiting them as "Bill Stoddard players." Anyone who games with me knows that they'll play in different systems over time.

My sales point is always, "Here's this idea for a campaign I'd like to run."

Bill Stoddard

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I think system choice (especially for a GM) is like forms of art. Some GMs will be good at looking at different systems, mastering them, and becoming fluent enough with them so they can run good, fun campaigns with them at a decent level of proficiency.

Then you've got GMs who, whether by personal choice, financial constraints, or competency levels, only want to subscribe to one system and get to know that really well.

I don't think there's anything wrong with either decision, and it's entirely up to the GM to choose which approach suits them best.

Just like there are artists who can sculpt, paint, sketch, and watercolor - but others who just pick one specialty and stick with it. My response is the same: the fact that you're doing something with an eye to doing it well is far better than doing nothing.

Likewise with GMing. It's not an easy task and the very fact that you're willing to do it even for just one system is already rare enough, in these days of computer RPGs and video games. I can't fault anybody for deciding to just pick one system and sticking with it.


Hell, in 2008 I specifically interviewed a dozen different systems so I could escape from d20. GURPS was one of three finalists and it turned out to be the best. The exercise gave me a passing familiarity with all those systems, but I specifically made the choice of sticking with GURPS for time, cost, and intellectual focus reasons.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Yeah, while I didn't do this consciously, it's what has happened over the years. I've GMed over the last 4 years about 8-9 different systems, and for the last three games, I thought of switching it to GURPS, and for the last two, I actually DID switch it over to GURPS.

This doesn't put down the systems I ran, it just means GURPS is more of what I want. And, as you say, putting my money, time, and intellectual focus on GURPS will, in a way, produce guaranteed "profit" in terms of what I get out of it.

As I said earlier, this isn't to say I'll never run another game again. I want to run Paranoia at least once for this new group I've got forming. My old group absolutely loved it.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I'm thinking I should do either a CoC or Paranoia one-shot for halloween with my friends...

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Man, I could go for a good Paranoia one-shot...


But I remember my first time introducing my group to GURPS, it took me nearly a year to convince them not only to give GURPS a shot, but to give me a shot as a GM. One of the players was constantly whining, if we were playing DnD we could be started by now. The moment he got to use a Car as an imporvized weapon against a helicopter (his character was that
strong) and the rules supported it, he fell in love.

A year later, I joined my first game, as a player, since then... about a week ago.

I tried running a Pathfinder RPG game... and a FATE game based in Xanth, but every time, my group is dissatisfied the ruleset. They demand GURPS.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Mate, you're invited. Don't know when though. This group is meeting for the first game next weekend, and as I said, it's GURPS. We'll play that for two sessions, since it's a two-parter for one of my friend's colleagues who's temporarily in Hungary for work reasons.

After that, I want to keep the same setting for a longer campaign, or another setting with GURPS as the engine (I've ideas, see?).

Still, you never know. At least one of them was in the last Paranoia one-shot I ran two years ago, and she really liked it (because she won, which means she got everyone else executed for treason, including her boyfriend (she's a lawyer IRL...). I WILL be trying to get this group to play it...

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Well, it's Guinness, so that's given. Though I'd be lying if I said I didn't love Killkenny more, but I'm a heretic, I know. ;)

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

PMs don't work for me so you'll have to e-mail me: xambrius@yahoo.com
I'll be a bit busy this weekend, but I should reply by Monday at the latest.
Hopefully we can work something out. I've never been to Hungary before.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I understand what you're saying. Partly, it is because I'm lazy, and I don't want to bother learning a whole new system each time I run a new game, but I really don't see the advantage of using another system. GURPS will let me run any kind of campaign and it lets me model anything from gritty realism to cinematic powers. Every game system has its limitations, but GURPS has, to me, the fewest, and the most advantages. Obviously, this will not be true for everyone, but I have not yet experienced a situation where I felt that I could not handle a campaign better (or at least as well) with GURPS, so I just don't bother using anything else when I run a game.

Having said that, I'm perfectly happy to let someone else do the work and run some other kind of game. d20 has grown on me; it is good for certain kinds of campaigns and adequate for most other genres. Savage Worlds works quite well for cinematic action (it's like a cinematic-oriented little brother of GURPS). Other systems are fine, too. I just don't use them myself anymore when I'm either building or running a campaign.

Mark

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I have sat down to play different systems over the last few years with different GMs. Throughout each session I kept thinking "GURPS does this better". By the end of the day I'm saying to myself "why am I wasting my very limited gaming time trying to learn a different system when GURPS is better anyway?"

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I know what you mean. I play GURPS with a motley assortment of players I recruited one at at a time. I have GMed probably 70% of the time and the other two who have done so often talk about their urge to explore other systems, which we do with regularity. Personally, as someone who has been into RPGs since the late seventies, I recall with chagrin the 'golden era' when every single game needed players and GM to learn a new set of poorly-realized mechanics.

Frequently under the other GMs, the group branches off into Top Secret for a week, or All Flesh Must Be Eaten for three or four sessions, or Icons for three games. Inevitably I wonder as a player what exactly we are gaining by doing this, as whatever novelties the games offer seem counterbalanced by the way the clumsing or non-existent handling of many situations and the way they fail reality tests all over the place.

That said, there are occasional perfect matches of non-GURPS mechanics to situations, for which I am more than happy to put aside my loyalties. TOON was mentioned upthread and is a fine example. Call of Cthulhu's SAN mechanism is no less brilliant today than when I started running a game in high school, more than 25 years ago. Car Wars' rudimentary systems for dealing with characters is fine for a game that focuses in vehicle combat.

Still, in practice, I am at one with the OP.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

This is something that I run into more often than not. When I come across something that inspires me about the setting I normally end up automatically breaking it down to how I would achieve certain things within the GURPS framework. For good or ill, that's just how it works for me, even if I don't have the familiarity with the system that many of the people here evidence. So I'm kind of stuck on GURPS as a GM.

On the other hand when it comes down to playing? As long as the campaign description is intriguing and the GM doesn't automatically expect me to be up to speed (i.e. a little help would be appreciated) on an unfamiliar system, I'm fine with it.

Of course, whether I can actually take a top-down approach to character generation (concept-through mechanics-to-character) rather than a bottom up (mechanics-to concept-to character) is another question entirely.

Kage

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I was a GURPS only gamers for a long time and if it was a "can only have one" situation it would be my choice. Its probably the best designed multi purpose game on the market with Unisystem running 2nd place

That being said I play and run quite a few other things, Pathfinder , OSR D&D variants, Risus Unisystem -- it really depends on what seems interesting at the time...

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I realy love GURPS - that part of why i bought so much stuff around it - but i need to say, that it is too complicated in my parts for me and my players.
We always tend to search around in books and seek this or that rule.
Yes, we could wave such things, but we instead try to find and learn ...
This begins with simple things like Details of Grappling or Area attacks.
The problem for *me* is, that GURPS books are so dense - if you seek a rule, mostly it points you to other rules and other books, who in turn ... yes, points to the next thing.

For me, GURPS would be greatly enhanced, if all books and rules would contain more "fluff" and more redundance - not pointing to other pages at all, but explaining all details *there*.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I play a lot of different games. When I want to homebrew a campaign, one of the first thoughts that pops into my head is, "I wonder how this would work in GURPS?" While I would say there are only certain genres GURPS does better than anything else, there are very few things GURPS won't do at all.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Seriously, my advice is to ban books from the table in play. Look the stuff up later, and just rule on it and move on. It even satisfies my rules lawyer types, who love to look up rules:

http://dungeonfantastic.blogspot.com...s-in-play.html

I actually expanded that to ban books at the table, and no PC-based PDF lookups either.

I know that doesn't solve the "meandering rules lookups" issues, but books do have to be limited in size somehow. At least this doesn't disrupt play.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I think the issue with that would be that it would increase costs because it would increase page count. And I imagine there would be a number of customers who would resent having to pay twice for something they already own.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Yep.
Or, it could make GURPS more successfull ... maybe.

Maybe create "GURPS Rules" as PDF on e23!

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Thanx for the link!
We just started to use PDFs at the table - that made the lookups faster :)

But i will think about your idea - and read the webpage of yours!

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Yeah, if I suggest that to my players they will lynch me. :)

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I would have told you that mine would, too.

But they actually like it a lot for some reason. Maybe "play moves along smoothly and quickly" is more fun than "play moves along slowly, but the rules are exactly enforced as written."

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I fully do agree with Toadkiller.

I played a lot of role playing games for about 30 years and, as a lot of people in this thread, GURPS is the only one I run - as player, I let the GM decide; it is his game and I prefer him to feel comfortable with his rules, even if I don't really like them.

But what is amazing with GURPS is this: it is one of the most universal, generic, and consistent role playing system. If not the most.

It is not only universal (which allows to play in every setting you can imagine). It is also generic, which means that you can give the feeling you want to your games: realistic or heroic; funny or desperate...

But, above all, it is consistent. You don't remember a specific rule? No matter! Don't look through the books during play. Just use one of the basic game mechanics and the table of task difficulty modifiers to take your decision.

My favorite example: A PC is aiming at a NPC with a .45 pistol in a foggy forest, for 3 turns, and fires. The NPC is running 12 yards away, partially covered by the trees and bushes. You can look for every modifier in the books (Acc, bracing, aiming bonus, range, speed, cover and visibility...). But you can also decide that it is just an impossible task: -10.

And what is amazing with GURPS is the fact that it will give you about the same result.

Acc, +2; bracing, +1; range+speed, -6; partial cover, -4 (for instance); visibility, -4 (for instance); this gives a total modifier of -11.

Of course, a player can say that -11 is very different from -10... Of course. But who decides that the visibility penalty is -4 rather than -5 or -3? The GM. So why not -10 rather than -11?

That is why I fully do agree with Toadkiller. Learn the rules as much as possible between games. But, during play, you can handle everything with the GM screen only. And since the game is really consistent, you will always fall on your feet.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I like GURPS, but sometimes I don't need the level of detail and the variety of fiddly bits it provides, or another system is better suited to what I'd like to run.


other games I like to run:

Basic/Expert D&D

Boot Hill

Call of Cthulhu

Classic Traveller


I also run D&D3.5 online, and have done so for a few years now. It isn't my favorite system, but it works well for my purposes.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

One thing which is also great with GURPS is the fact that you can have as much detail as you like... Or not! This is often forgotten because, when you are in front of two so thick books named "Basic Set", it's hard to imagine that all these rules are just optional.

Actually, you can keep the game as light as you want, by using only the basic rules (which are explained in GURPS lite or in the Quick Start Section of the Basic Set) and the Task Difficulty Modifiers.

But I perfectly understand what you (and others) mean by...

All what I wanted to add is that I've played a lot of Cthulhu campaigns with the Basic Role Playing System. I really like this game which is very well designed. Now, I have also tried it with GURPS and it works even better.

GURPS wounding system really adds something to the game, with its realism. And GURPS fright check system (where you get more and more mental disadvantage) is as frightening for players as losing sanity points. Perhaps even more. Furthermore, it's more simple for them to understand exactly how their character become crazy rather than a very generic sanity point loss.

Add to that the fact that GURPS rules can be as simple as Call of Cthulhu ones, and you will immediately understand why I play my Cthulhu campaigns exclusively with GURPS rules now. Just try it once. It's amazing.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I don't buy into 'one size fits all.'

Take character generation; GURPS doesn't give me the quick and easy classes of D&D, the fun lifepath system of Cyberpunk 2020, the career system of WFRP, etc. It works really well for making highly detailed PCs who are designed without any randomness. Some people like randomness. Not everyone wants a high level of detail.


GURPS is fun and well-designed, but I don't like to use it for all games I run, and I doubt I ever will.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Yes, you're right! That's exactly why I wrote "I perfectly understand what you (and others) mean by: or another system is better suited to what I'd like to run."

GURPS can't do everything. But it can cover every universe, every genre, and even every atmosphere.

As long as the game master is experimented enough to choose the good rules to use and the ones to forget.

And that is why I personally chose to play GURPS and only GURPS.

To my mind, being a very good game master means a great deal of effort. It means that I have to know the rules very well: not only memorizing them, but also understanding them (being able to know why they are designed like that rather than differently, and how they work together).

It's a long job, and I have not a lot of time to spend on role playing games. So I can't afford learning several role playing games to this level.

That is why I prefer running only GURPS, and mastering it very well rather than running several games I don't really understand. It is just a personal choice and I perfectly understand that others, who have more time or who are brighter than me make another choice.

All what I want to say is that GURPS is so universal and generic that once can play everything with its rules without being frustrated.

To go on with the main comparison of this thread, GURPS is not just a pizza. It is something with which you can do all the pizza's you can imagine.

No matter what is the most important for you: the story telling, playing the role of your character, detailed rules and character optimization... GURPS allows fun for every kind of role players.

I even ran it with beginners who found it very simple and easy to play.

Edit:
Oh, I forget to tell... Nobody is enforced to detail his character. 4 basic attributes, 10 to 12 skills and you're ready to play. Advantages and disadvantages are optional too!

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

It's definitely one of the best systems out there, at least IMHO.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

This. I don't have much time for gaming. I'm not going to waste any of it learning yet another system. I've tried that in the past and when any house rules were added it ended up just making it more like GURPS.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Hah! That's exactly what I end up doing too. I just did it in a Dark Heresy game where the wound-critical system was just too hard to accept for us GM and players alike. "I shoot him 3 times in the leg and his still going strong, then I hit his arm for average damage and he explodes in blood and gore... what?"

Sometimes though I wish that GURPS had a more action-packed lighter easier sub-system you could use. More like BESM.


I know people say "you can just turn down the reality options and rules available" and so on. But it doesn't' fly. Its still 1 sec combat turns where position, distance and facing matters and theres a difference between having shortsword and knife skill. And I like some of the details that are "advanced", such as hit locations and damage types. But there's a lot I don't like when I want to run action-focused games. I have made a lot of radical houseruels that work ok. But would be nice with something official.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I've always been system-curious. I've tried many many systems. After many years of being a GURPS only GM, though, I'm giving FATE a chance, for those games governed by narrative causality instead of hard physics. Now, I need to convince my players to give it a try...

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I also appreciate different system aesthetics and certainly believe that there are reasons to play (for example) D&D 4e over GURPS DF that have nothing to do with the quality of the system or the genre, but rather with systems aesthetics and genre in the game-sense.

But once you know GURPS, it becomes a sort of baseline quality, and that's a high bar to match. Some of my friends don't like that I'm critical of BESM, for example, but to my eye it just looks like a (slightly) simplified, 2d6 GURPS, so why would I bother. Many games out there might be interesting, but they're not "good enough," and so most new systems get discarded.

I have found a few that can differentiate themselves enough from GURPS, offer sufficiently interesting mechanical concepts, and are mechanically-aesthetically pleasing enough that I'm willing to play/run them as well as GURPS, but it's a surprisingly small set.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I'll play in them but I won't run them. Even when I'm playing them I'm constantly thinking "GURPS does this better". It detracts from the experience.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I only play GURPS, mostly because it does what I want well, and partly because getting players into a new system might be troublesome. I do read up on other systems, however. Mainly, I mine them for ideas, as they can be a great source of settings or mechanics that I might not have thought up myself.

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

Could you kindly list this few games?
Thank you :)

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

For me?

(new) World of Darkness teeters on an edge. It offers simplicity and transparency in the sense that the math behind its mechanics is very simple to work out, and the system largely works, and it works sufficiently differently from GURPS that it's worth my time for certain kinds of horror games (GURPS does horror very well, just a different kind of horror). WoD offers lots of options, but working with GURPS is like working with LEGO, working with WoD is like working with wood: It can do lots of stuff, but you have to cut it down and sand its edges yourself. A big advantage is its wide-scale appeal. I have an easier time convincing people to play WoD than GURPS, but GURPS is gaining in that department around here.

D&D 4e offers a very, very different gaming experience from GURPS, and it's very tightly designed when it comes to combat. I've quite enjoyed my experience with it. However, IMO, it only does combat well, whereas GURPS DF strays into other territory nicely.

Weapons of the Gods is an excellent and underrated game. It does some very unique things that makes for exciting, highly narrative, yet mechanically compelling gaming. It only really does Wuxia well, but wow does it do Wuxia.

Nobilis is also a good game, particularly 3e, which approaches resource based gaming in a surprisingly refreshing and nuanced fashion, encouraging players to carefully define the laws of their enormous, cosmic power. Plus it's a great read, if you like Jenna Moran's style (which isn't for everyone).

I also delve into the Indy scene a lot, but I find most of them don't really hold up for very long. Lady Blackbird is excellent, though, for its price tag and for what it does. The original game is very small and focused, but the concepts are obvious enough that you can easily expand it. It's rapidly gaining ground as a go-to system for gamers who like simplicity (though I've been investigating GURPS ultra-light for further expansion, as it seems surprisingly flexible, easy and direct).

If I had to ditch any system above, I'd ditch D&D 4e, but that's because they don't support PDFs and that's a deal breaker for me. Really, WoD is the most easily replaced by GURPS, followed by D&D 4e, though both have elements that work best in their own venue (WoD: Virtue, Vice, Willpower and the interplay of those things with Morality; D&D: Daily powers, encounter powers, at-will powers). You can imitate them in GURPS, but GURPS really works fundamentally differently. But WotG, Nobilis and Lady Blackbird stray far enough away from "mainstream" gaming and also stand up on their own well enough to be worth my time, IMO. These really do things that you can't easily imitate in GURPS (You can do the genre of WotG and Lady Blackbird well enough in GURPS, but Nobilis really strains GURPS even in that department)

Re: GURPS is becoming the only game I'll run
 

I am impressed!
You not only listed the games, but also gave a brief summary of rules and reasons - thank you!

I also learned about D&D encounter, day and will spells - this sounds *quite* interesting and may be part of a solution for my question here: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=84697

I will think about such a solution for my GURPS games!

:)