DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

It's somewhat unfair that all other races get cool Power-Ups and humans don't. At least I think so, and that's all I care about, really. Has anyone else thought about this?


Traditionally, one of the things humans have going for them is that they are versatile. They can be anything! This doesn't help in a game where there are races that are better at almost any specific thing, however. Human versatility needs a boost. Would you allow this?

Versatile

1 point

This allows you to buy one level in a talent outside your normal template. For example, a Barbarian could pick up Ninja Talent 1 or a Thief could Born War-Leader without spending the 50 points necessary to buy a Lens. You must specialize - each Talent is its own Perk!

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

I'd let humans do that for free, but I can see where spending a point would be appropriate.

Don't Inkeepers have something similar, though?

Subtler bonuses can also work out. If the campaign world really is humanocentric then medical penalties could apply. Giving all non humans without a social stigma "Minority Group" could help a bit too.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

I'm also considering only letting humans stray from their path - feel free to be an Elf Wizard, but not an Elf Wizard-Barbarian...

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Puny human!

My Sci Fi campaign takes that attitude but with more indifference.

I thought that the fantasy races cost X just to be that race. Humans are already ahead in turns of all points are used for whatever.

Then there are some advantages you/we/I may disagree with for fantasy races too. Which means it has to be altered.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

While that is technically true, it's not cool. The problem is that the others have access to all the shiny stuff humans get, while the reverse is not true.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

In my fantasy campaign I wrote up racial templates for all available races, including human, and required my players to pick a template. The human template would include things such as Common Sense, Dyslexia, a bonus to ST, and a penalty to IQ (to reflect more or less a standard, TL3, european peasant), balanced out so the human template would cost 0 points anyway, so the players wouldn't feel that points were "stolen" from them if they didn't wish to spend points on racial templates.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Note that nobody gets anything for free here. You make a 250-point character, and if you want to be a nonhuman, you have to figure out where to find up to 75 points for your racial template. That comes out of points on your professional template. This means that humans have more template-specific stuff where nonhumans have racial templates . . . which means that humans know more spells, have more abilities in their powers, and can start out with more professional power-ups allowed at character creation. That is, they're better at their niche.

Still, if you feel that humans should get something special, go ahead and give them something! Since I really loathe old-school class-race restrictions – whether you word them as "humans are more versatile" or "halflings can't be martial artists" – I wouldn't mess with that side of things in any canonical publication. Probably the simplest move would be to say that humans can spend earned points freely to add or improve Luck (from Luck, through Extraordinary Luck, to Ridiculous Luck) and Serendipity, regardless of what the templates, lenses, and power-ups for their profession indicate. This explains why humans seem to be the dominant race, despite their lack of bodily weaponry, innate talents, etc. If that still doesn't seem cool enough, tack on other Luck-related traits, allowing humans to acquire Daredevil retroactively, buy Destiny, etc.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

The alternative with humans and that pile of extra points they don't have to spend on being human is to lens into another template, of course - which goes back to the "humans are generalists" meme. The elf thief can't do it, he's too busy spending points on "elf".

One way to do this is to start players with 250 points for a professional template, then 50 for a race template or a lens or upgrading to the 250 point template - if you're strict about the entire lens being bought at once, races that cost less than 50 points will be stuck spending those "extra" points on their main profession powerups or racial powerups, while the humans (And halflings) get to be thief-scouts or scout-swashbucklers or wizard-barbarians or whatever they feel like doing with 50 extra points.

For a lower point game, start them with a 200 point template from Eric's Dungeon Fantasy On The Cheap and then the bonus 50 points. This is the direction I'm going with the game I hope to start soon if I ever get my act together.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

There is probably some room for "General" power-ups. Ones not specific to race or archetype but with some other generic stat prerequisites.

You could make luck/serendipity with limiters and specifications:
Luck (only with rapier skill)
Luck (random treasure tables)
Serendipity (random treasure tables) <-- that maybe an enhancement not a limitation... sounds too sweet. :D
Serendipity (girl/guy in every port) <--- for the DF Pirates! Though swashbucklers could have it too I suppose.

No clue on point costs for such things. :D

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

There is a bit of this in a certain regard. Racial disads and bough down attributes don't count toward the max for the disad limits. So you can get more disads and with low attributes if you are the right race for a character concept.

I noted this when making an ogre vs half ogre holy warriors. With the limits on disads you couldn't get as much ST for the character.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

On the other hand, you can't get into town, either. Those disadvantages still count for gameplay purposes!

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

I tend to think of it as the attribute lowering being the real kicker.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Consider making WL the human "perk." Regardless of template, humans can pump it high. Helps explain human dominance, is a useful thing for most PCs, and almost required of a hero anyway.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

OK, I missed that abbreviation. WL = ?

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

"White Lightning?"

"Weight Limit?"

"Wacky Lemons?"

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

"Wladimir"?

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Though what he meant was clearly Will.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Humans are the masters of selling Watery Lemonade, this allows them to maximize profits while minimizing costs leading to an unlimited Wealth Level.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

What he meant? Maybe.

Clearly? Most definitely not. :)

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

How about.... Humans are the children of Fate. Other races have to buy an Unusual Background (1/4 the cost of their racial package) if they want to buy Destiny. Humans don't.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Destiny in DF?

That seems like a strange fit.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

"Wee-dic-u-lous Luck" also, "Sufferin' Succotash!"

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Maybe... I was thinking Wealth :|

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Yeah . . . people can call IQ "IN" or FP "FT" or Will "WL" if they want, but if they expect non-quippy answers, they would do well to use the game's actual terminology. ;)

And "Wealth Level" was my first non-quippy guess, to be honest.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

I think Destiny suits almost any kind of fantasy, really. It's omitted from DF 1 because, like Wealth, it would need space to explain how it works. But treating Destiny as a one-shot guaranteed win that results in phat lewts seems entirely fitting.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Quippy... something about that word just makes me happy :)

Tom Selleck in Quippy Down Under.
Paul, the Marketing Quippy.
"Didja hear that new ska band?" "Damn Quippy!"

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Banjo dueling, special bonuses against demons and devils.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Paddle faster, I hear banjos...

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

As long as they keep playing those banjos, we're okay. It's when they stop that things get bad. (Why? That's when the bass solo starts.)

So, has anybody proposed a Bards not-a-splatbook yet?

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Ystava, my current DF character, has a perk-level destiny "Friend to Bears", which I fully intend to keep dumping points into. He also has Obsession: Ride the Dire Bear, and if I get lucky, he'll get a chance to buy a dire bear Ally, or Speak to Bears or something.

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Your characters are always so interesting* :) How does that Destiny Perk go? It sounds like it maybe should be another trait, like a specialized Animal Empathy or something.

* Thank goodness... this thread was turning a little strange *innocent*

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Ehehe, that's one way to put it.

He's already got Animal Empathy, so it would be a little redundant. I'm not sure exactly how the GM is handling it so far, but I suspect there was something like a +1 on a reaction check with a bear in the first session. Or possibly the bear showed up because of the perk!

We are now being followed by another, different bear. It might end up being sort of a trivial bear-oriented Weirdness Magnet, except that Ystava really likes bears so he wouldn't mind it at all. Actually, a Bears aspected Weirdness Magnet is a great idea. :D

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Actually, I prefer quippy answers.

Of those, white lightning was the funniest. Dwarves already have enough racial stereotypes, let humans take back "they're all drunks!"

Re: DF 11: No Love For Humans?
 

Assuming this is the Minotaur character I keep hearing about that would be epic badassery.