Originally Posted by malloyd (Post 1034160)

Not quite. They won't give out big loans to typical "free trader" PCs. They might be perfectly willing to finance free traders who actually have ties to a community where the law does get enforced. The loan officer of the bank that has dealt honestly with your parents and grandparents, who still live here, knows you aced your college business classes, and remembers you fondly from when you and his daughter did all those Girl Scout civics projects together might be willing to write you a loan if you turn up with a reasonable business plan. A bunch of scruffy ex-mercenaries arriving from offworld three months ago probably aren't a risk he'd be very interested in even if law enforcement *were* good.

Some people are bad risks is not the same as all people are bad risks. The problem from a RPG perspective is that people willing to do things that qualify as adventures, particularly the different kinds of adventures you need to keep the game sessions from being too repetitive, are almost poster examples of "bad risk". You don't get your money back from people who die in the wilderness somewhere.

Originally Posted by Ejidoth (Post 1034151)

I'm struggling slightly over how to really enforce serious debt in the setting where law enforcement is lax enough to let piracy be a major profession too.

That is... if you try not to pay up on a debt, law enforcement wants to catch you. If you pirate, law enforcement wants to catch you. Piracy includes stealing ships, so the monetary value of both crimes are similar in this case, so both are roughly equal priority.

So.

If I have a setting where pirates tend to be able to often escape punishment, how do I enforce debt? It seems like the end result is that companies won't give out big loans like that to free traders.

Originally Posted by Ejidoth (Post 1034164)

Y'know, even though that doesn't help the PCs get a ship, I'm glad you pointed that out. That makes the setting work better, so now all I need is a handwave for why the PCs can afford a ship, without it being hugely improbable that there are other not-insanely-wealthy traders out there. And that's easy enough with 'inheritance' / 'discovery of improbably valuable treasure' / whatever.

Originally Posted by malloyd (Post 1034143)

You can vastly lower the price of ships.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin (Post 1034186)

This is particularly true both when you're the one writing the rules of the universe _and_ when using an system as abstract as Spaceships. Just leave costs the same across the TL and the SMs and the system won't care. It's not a game balance issue as long as everything built with the rules uses the same rules.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth (Post 1034166)

Basic law enforcement at most spaceports will do that.

In order to do business, a trader needs free access to many ports. Pirates don't. A pirate needs a haven where they can resupply and fence their loot, but they only really need one.

So if you've got a few worlds, stations, or what have you that cheerfully enable piracy...Tortuga, Jackson's Whole, that sort of place...the pirates can get by just fine even if they'd be arrested on sight in the vast majority of ports of trade. But a merchant who's been declared pirate for stopping payments on their ship will essentially be out of business.

Originally Posted by jacobmuller (Post 1034207)

And add a "pirates don't like competition" clause; newly defaulted merchants won't be experienced at piracy = easy prey for inveterate pirates.

Originally Posted by malloyd (Post 1034199)

I'd note that in most game systems spaceship rules, ships get a lot cheaper if you leave off the weapons, armor, and long range sensors, none of which are very useful for a merchant operating in places that have local policing and traffic control.

Originally Posted by Ejidoth (Post 1034151)

I'm struggling slightly over how to really enforce serious debt in the setting where law enforcement is lax enough to let piracy be a major profession too.

That is... if you try not to pay up on a debt, law enforcement wants to catch you. If you pirate, law enforcement wants to catch you. Piracy includes stealing ships, so the monetary value of both crimes are similar in this case, so both are roughly equal priority.

So.

If I have a setting where pirates tend to be able to often escape punishment, how do I enforce debt? It seems like the end result is that companies won't give out big loans like that to free traders.