Kneepads of Allure
 

Even though the Kneepads of Allure say that another player of higher level can't refuse to help you, does that help need to be enough to beat the monster in question?

Or can someone use the kneepads to drag someone else into a combat in order to kill them?

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

The Kneepads force them to help you regardless of level, combat strength, gender, race, class, or anything else. The only thing that would stop them from helping you would be a card that specifically says they can't help you.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

You can definitely drag someone into the combat when the bad stuff would be dreadful for that player but not for you. Or if you're dragged by the wearer of the Kneepads into combat you can sabotage the combat by enhancing the monster and throwing Curses to the player who forced you to fight. Heck, I even back-stabbed myself during a combat in order to lose the fight when it wasn't my choice to fight, the possibilities are many and usually the results are hilarious.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

Although you could just have easily back-stabbed the other player in the combat.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

I'm not entirely sure that Munchkiny meant actually using the Thief's backstab ability in this case, but thanks for pointing out that a Thief can't actually backstab himself.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

Yes, my bad, should have pointed that out or used another term, sorry.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

This evening, I used Kneepads of Allure to help me win a combat. I know that he can play one-shot items to prevent us from defeating the monster. In this instance, he was a Wizard and attempted to discard his whole hand to use his Charm ability to banish the monster so that I would not gain a level. He has no means to bargain when he is compelled to fight, so I would get all of the treasure, but is he allowed to banish a monster if we are already able to beat the monster?

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

Hmmm. I'm not sure he has nothing to bargain with. . . Normally, no, he can't expect any treasure, but he can surely say: "Hey, you're only going to get Treasure at the end of this combat, no Level(s). If you want the Level(s), you can trade me some stuff for free after this combat."

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

So, because the Wizard is now in the combat, he may use his charm ability to banish the monster. That is definitely a tool he could use to weasel some treasure out of the deal. Thank you very much.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

Hi All,
So i just started playing the game (best game ever!!) and still learning the rules. Last night I played "Kneepads of Allure" illegally, i.e. I made a player help me defeat a monster, even though he was not of higher lever than I (we were both at level 9). The player who helped me did no realize that I used the card illegally until AFTER we drew the treasures and saw what the treasures are (he had a special card allowing him to collect treasures). After the helper saw what the treasures are, he read the Kneepads of allure card again and determined that I have used the card illegally. Hence, he demanded that we should reverse the turn by allowing him to place the treasures back to the pile and make me fight the monster again WITHOUT his help. He also said that I should still play the Kneepads of allure card (hence wasting it since I am level 9) even though I cannot legally play it. Is this allowed? I would assume that he should have had catched that the card was illegal at the time it was played and not allowing me to use it then, not making me revise my turn and wasting my card.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

Cards in play are public knowledge, and if I ask you what a card says, you are required to answer fully and honestly.

With that in mind, you've made several mistakes in your account, not just one:

1) Kneepads of Allure is not a one-time card. You can't "waste" it. It stays in front of you until you sell it, trade it to another player, or lose it to a Curse, Bad Stuff, or theft. (And you can't play it during combat.)

2) Assuming you were playing regular rules, not Epic, then you could not use the Kneepads because you cannot use them to force another player to help you win the game, even apart from the "higher Level than you" restriction.

3) You don't draw Treasure when you gain the winning level; you just win. The game's over at that point.

Under the circumstances, I would have agreed that the combat should have been rebooted -- you made a mistaken play that led to winning the game, and it was discovered immediately, so it's not too late to redo. Everyone gets the cards back that they played, and combat restarts.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

Hey Andrew - actually I myself was also not aware that I am using the card illegaly, nor were the other players (all other players did read the card before allowing me to use it, and missed to catch that it was illegal for me to use).

Given that the card specifies that I cannot move up to gain the winning level, I remained at level 9 after defeating the monster with the help of the other player. Since I did not move up to the winning level, the other players on the board allowed me to drew the treasures the monster offered. My helper also drew four treasures as he had a card allowing him to do so during any combat.

Given that this has occured, would you have still advised that the turn should be rebooted (even though the helper already had seen the treasure cards and we were at phase "charity")? Also, how far can we go back in terms of rebooting our turns? If another player later found that he or she has done something illegaly 2-3 turns ago, are we allowed to reboot that far?

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

Also to add to the post above, my helper wanted to reboot the turn and return four treasures from his hand AFTER he had already mixed them with his other treasures in his hand. Hence, we, the other players, did not know if he was in fact honest and was to return the exact four treasures he drew on the first place.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

You cannot choose to forgo the level for killing a monster in order to use the Kneepads.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

Edit: Same thing Andrew said.

Also, when drawing treasures from a combat with a helper, all treasures are drawn face-up for everyone in the game to see. So people paying attention to what was drawn would know if he was truthful in returning the treasures.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

Thanks for all the help! It really cleared up a lot of confusion. Just one last question - what is the official rule for rebooting turns? If we have already moved to a different turn can we go back to the previous one? It's my understanding that rebooting is OK during the same turn, but curious what the stance is for previous turns (given that my group are all newbies, this would help a lot).

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

The official stance is "Don't screw up." So that's not helpful. :-)

If you CAN rewind without too much trouble, or at least mitigate the damage, go ahead and do it. If it'd require too much work, just make a note for next time, put an asterisk next to the game, and get on with the play.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

LOL! Thanks

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

I just finished a game where a player used the kneepads when facing a monster that would give 2 levels when defeated. The table got into a rather heated argument as to whether the player would gain only one of the two levels or neither. What's the official ruling, or did we misinterpret the card entirely?

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

You cannot forgo a level, so in that instance they would not be allowed to use the kneepads.

Re: Kneepads of Allure
 

The official ruling is: you cannot use the Kneepads at all if the fight would win you the game (because you cannot choose not to take the winning level).