Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

In GURPS 4E, IIRC, the Detect Advantage can be given the Reflexive Enhancement, which means it is always on, requiring no conscious effort from the character who has it.

Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

They'd also have to shield their thoughts (Hey - you're planning to steal our loot! Kill them!), their emotions (Why do you feel hatred whenever I mention the Dark Lord?), and possibly hide their species (A human in our orc fortress! Kill him!).

Conversely, the "evil" dungeon dwellers need to scan not only for good, but also for thoughts & intentions, because conceivably someone who's evil or neutral might just as well be hostile.

Detect Good is just one way the PCs might show up, and from the pov of the bad guys, one of the more impractical ones.

Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

Actually it probably ought to have no cost at all. Essentially what these sorts of things do for you is positively identify you, at which point whatever the actual reaction modifiers that apply when you are recognized as being part of a group should kick in. That is, having a distinctive feature is effectively a constraint on the frequency of recognition modifiers you can take on your social disadvantages.

There's more overloading on GURPS appearance type traits than there ideally would be. There are at least five separate kinds of things appearance can cover - that's beautiful/hideous, I want to/would never kiss that, that's a (insert group here), and that's him, the last two subdividing into disguise penalties and respectively triggers to Social Regard/Stigma and Reputation/identification by witnesses.

If you want to price Detects as Evil with an existing GURPS disadvantage, use Supernatural Features, which is broken in the same way - giving you points apparently in addition to your Social Stigma (monster) for making it recognizable without demanding a huge limit on that Social Stigma for usually concealed.

Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

I wish you'd try to explain that statement rather than dropping it in without doing anything to help people understand it. This is at least the third post, and none of those have actually said anything about what the "true potential" was.

Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

There's a lot of setting assumptions in b-dog's initial post, to be fair.



The answer to your original question (as I think has been said in this thread) is that GURPS doesn't give points for being subject to a power that humans aren't normally subject to, if someone else has to pay points for the power.

So, being summonable with various spells, detectable with specific forms of Detect, repelled by Faith, etc.; all zero-points, because the subject has to pay for them.

The assumption is that a) the majority of people won't have such powers, and b) someone who isn't subject to the things you are are may be subject to things you aren't. As in the previously-given example, my part-demon detects as Evil, which is a nuisance in a holy city, but less of an issue in a cultists' den, where my part-angel friend (who detects as Good) may get into more trouble than me.

To put the phenomenon in context, GURPS does give points for being vulnerable to something that people normally aren't, if someone else doesn't have to spend points for it. So having a malign aura that makes ordinary members of the public aware that you're evil, such that they implicitly mistrust and fear you, is worth points; being repelled by a normal cross that anyone could get their hands on is worth points.



But consider: Detect Evil really shouldn't be common. Partly, for balance reasons: a 25-point power is pretty rare by definition. A standard militia guardsman should be built on 50 or so points, and has about a dozen better things to spend his points on. The city militia may well work with the church, but you'd expect the militia to provide the muscle and the militia to provide the Detecty goodness. But also partly conceptually. This is the power of the very holy and pious. Think about it; in D&D 3e it's an at-will power of paladins - holy exemplars of pious goodness - and maybe a once-per-day spell of a typical cleric, and that's it. No-one else can do it. If it's everywhere, it loses any sense of being a gift from the gods and becomes as exciting and mystical as a barcode scanner.



That said, if - in your game - Detect Evil is extremely common, then by all means give points for being Evil. It's your game. If, basically, everyone can detect evil or has ready access to evil-detection, and people who detect as evil are automatically treated with fear and suspicion, then detecting as evil is a disadvantage. Go for it, and fill your boots. But that's reflecting your setting, not GURPS system.

Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

Which are as rare as hen's teeth in DF canon. Seriously, read DF 1-11 and tell me how many times Detect (Good) comes up. It isn't assumed to be a common or innate ability for very many creatures at all. Actually, it's mainly an ability for clerics and (un)holy warriors, who might constitute a few percent of all foes, tops. Even demons and major undead lack this capability. Whereas Detect (Life) and Detect (Supernatural) are quite common . . . yet live people and supernatural beings don't get special disadvantage points for that.

I think it's important to accept that while DF was surely inspired in some ways by AD&D, it isn't that game. That game handed out Detect Good/Evil abilities like candy, making them free, unlimited-use B-list abilities acquired alongside actually useful gifts. DF does not assume this. It assumes rather the opposite: Few people can detect good or evil, which is how liches and demon lords can build entire dungeons and assemble vast armies without being noticed. Normally, detecting good or evil requires you to go to a specialist with holy powers . . . assuming he didn't spend his points on something more combat-oriented. The average dungeon, being devoid of light, food, pleasant company, etc. is mostly full of mouth-and-tentacles monsters that don't mind living in dirt, garbage, and piles of corpses, and even the average evil cleric is mostly served by low-IQ, low-Will thugs with no special powers.

Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

I'm not sure what your point is here.
**********************
However, I break it down as:

A Good person might be attacked by an Evil person...or not.

An Evil person might be attacked by a Good person...or not.

A Good person might be attacked by a Good person...or not.

An Evil person might be attacked by an Evil person...or not.

A Good person might be a valuable friend to a Good person...or not.

An Evil person won't be a valuable friend to an Evil person...although they might form a temporary alliance.

A Good person won't be a valuable friend to and Evil person...although they might form a temporary alliance.

And Evil person won't be a valuable friend to a Good person...although they might perform a temporary alliance.

A Good person has some restrictions on their actions.

An Evil person has no (or almost no) restrictions on their actions.

Those are all pretty much a wash. 0 points.

Being Detectable by someone else's power is always 0 points. No one gets points for being a human in a game where Detect Human powers/spells/eyesight exist. No one gets points for being a fish in a game where Detect Fish powers/spells/sonars exist.

Being Good or Evil isn't worth any points at all.

Now, being able to Detect Good or Evil is probably worth a goodly amount of points. I think someone mentioned 25 CPs for it? That's an expensive power (almost as much as Combat Reflexes) and should be worth a bunch in a campaign where it's allowed.

Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

Incidentally, it's worth remembering that what Detect Evil detects is evil powers. One need not actually be evil to have evil powers, although that will usually be the case.

Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

Can we get a page number on that? I only see Detect Evil and Resistant to Evil
Supernatural Powers and nothing that clarifies that the first only has an effect on powers.

Re: [DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?
 

Detect works fine on beings, powers, and artifacts . . . everything. The build in DF uses the 20-point level of Detect as its basis. Roughly, you'd get:

Detect (A particular class of evil artifacts) [5]
Detect (A particular class of evil beings) [5]
Detect (A particular class of evil powers) [5]

. . . all by analogy to "gold," "sorceresses," and "fire magic."

Detect (All evil artifacts) [10]
Detect (All evil beings) [10]
Detect (All evil powers) [10]

. . . all by analogy to "precious metal," "spellcasters," and "magic." In other words, "evil" is viewed as equivalent in size to "magic." At higher levels, you have to broaden the scope:

Detect (All evil artifacts, beings, and powers) [20]

Detect (All morally charged artifacts, beings, and powers) [30]

What's more important, though, is how rare this ability is. Knowing good from evil on sight is what gods do. They occasionally lend it out to clerics. Just about nobody else can do this. In particular, it's customary in mythology that the very pride that leads to demons, undead, and other affronts obscures such beings' ability to know good from evil. They are bad candidates for such advantages. And the unintelligent and mook-level beings that constitute 99% of foes in DF all lack divine powers, too.