Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

The Official Tournament Rules are as follow: The Short Version: Follow the spirit of the rules...
To Determine the Game Winner: Each Winner 2 Tournament Levels for each Level the player had at the end of the round...etc.
I don't find this as fun as making them up.

I went to a tournament at the Kawaii-Kon (Hawaii) this spring. They split the 20-or-so people up into groups and they used different expansions. The winners would use their hand and items in play in a Munchkin Cthulhu game of Epic Munchkin.

I have hosted a tournament this summer and used a variation of that using Munchkin as the Epic Munchkin set for the release of the 19th printing.

What tournament rules have you experience, used or would use?

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

The NW Spring Tourney at Gamestorm has historically been

X Qualifiers where X=Number of Base sets released

Winners go to final table of Epic Uberblend.

With the new rules being updated, we are waiting to see whats coming down to us for next year though.

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

I think we're just trying to make sure we can rule out certain amounts of bad behavior, some of which I saw at Origins. I hate to have to put rules in that everyone has to be able to see the final result of a die roll or require people to indicate when they are going to win by calling over a judge to witness it, but when there is so much on the line, people tend to get upset when they get ****** out of winning by someone who intentionally snapped up a die to hide the result before people could see it or misrepresented that they would be winning a game when directly asked about it.

I also want to see a limit to promo use, or at least permission given to the TO to institute a limit. As of right now, I'm not sure the rules allow for it.

I'm also thinking that the Extra Scary Cultist rules should probably be dropped for tournament play. Some weird luck could churn out a winner at Level 2 with those rules in play. I've also heard tell of those rules being abused. . .

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

Erik, if you are taking suggestions I will put in my two cents (not two coins, I am keeping those ;)

I agree with much of what you stated. I would suggest that in the preliminary rounds promo items of all type be allowed. Some of us do not get to use our goodies except at a tournament because we are the only geeks, er, nerds, um, obsessive, no that's not right, most experienced, yeah, that's it, players in their home games. I personnally will not use any of my promo stuff in a game with friends because I am the only one with any of these, and I do not want to spoil everyone's fun by beating them over the head with bookmarks, coins, Sherpa, etc. That said, if I used all that and still lost I would never hear the end of it. I would like the opportunity to use all these things sometimes, and a tournament where it is more expected is a great release.

I liked at Origins where the Semi-Finals were limited to one promo item. It made you think more and choose carefully. It also increased skill and card play as factors. At that level, I would hate to loose because someone spent mega-bucks on items and for all intents bought their win.

I agree fully with the final table being promo free. If a player made it that far, bully for you, and you should have the skills to win on your own.

As far as writing the rules for bad behavior, you have my sympathy. It is sad that this might need to happen. Munchkin and the variants are great games when played within the rules. I am sorry that some people get caught up pushing the rules or play for their benefit, but I have seen it happen as well. I know how I deal with it as a player, I do not envy your task as a judge. From what I understand of the final table at Origins, I LOVED your solution to any potential problems.

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

Erik, let's plan to talk this over next week. I'd like to hear more details (privately) about your Origins experience and what rules you'd like to see emplaced to make tourneys more fun for everyone in the future.

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

Promo as in Steve Jackson signed stuff?

More Scary Cultist Rules abused? Not unless the you have to cards to turn everybody into a cultist right?

That's sad, when I hold my little tournaments we are all friends and only a gameset is on the line. What was on the line at Origins?

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

See, I'd like a limit on promos myself. I don't use much around here either, because I'm about the only one with them. However, I don't have many. I absolutely HATE playing in a tournament where everybody else can bring 50 cards/items and I don't stand a chance. That's one of the reasons we switched our Versus tournaments to seal booster drafts.

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

What's seal booster drafts for Munchkin mean?

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

Not a thing; point of reference.

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

I recently found the Illuminati tournament rules for a Munchkin tournament. I guess the "Official Tournament Rules" didn't explain it for me. This seems really fun since everyone get to play more than once. Using my rules: those that got lucky with cards first round and go on to play Epic Munchkin second round aren't at such an advantage. Since this is what happened my last tournament:
Four groups, the four that went on one was at lvl 16 due to all the monster her opponents wandered in since she was about to win the round.

Start by explaining to the participants of the tournament how the tournament is played and scored.

Divide your players into groups. 4-6 players per group is preferable.

Each group plays one game of Munchkin; this is Round One.

If all groups but one are finished, or any game is about to pass the hour and a half mark (or what ever time you want), declare the group is in sudden death: each player has one more turn, and then the game is over.

Once all the games are over, record the player's scores. Make sure no one cleans up cards from the table before scores are recorded.

Play through Round Two, as Round One. If there are enough players, shuffle the groups, so people play against new opponents.

Round Three is played by those who won a game in either Round One or Two.
Add up each player's total points for the tournament. The top three scores are the first, second and third place winners.

Scoring: At the end of a round, each player receives a score according to how well they did and how many people are in that group. In a six person group, the winner receives six points, the second place player receives five, and so on; whereas in a four player game, the winner gets four points, and so forth.

Determining Placement: The person who reaches Level 10 first, as in the usual Munchkin rules, wins first place. Second place goes to the person with the next highest level, and so on.

In case of ties, two people win simultaneously, or more than one are of a particular level. The tie-breaker is biggest overall bonus from items; after that is total value (in gold, credits, etc.) of a player's items, then total number of items.

I'll try it this next tournament I host.

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

Eric,

It sounds like what you are talking about isn't actually a set of rules for Munchkin, but a set of gamers etiquette. Players who don't play honestly in a tournament should be willing to accept that dishonesty will lead to their having to forfeit.

Rolling a die and not allowing anyone to see the result of the roll before grabbing it back up, lying about a winning move that your about to make, or any other dishonest act need not have a rule written specifically for it. Etiquette is the law: If you play underhandedly, you are risking being ejected from the game (and worse yet, you have just earned a black mark that many will remember next time you sit down to play).

Just my .02 US. Use it as you see fit,
Bill Kane

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

I think you're grossly underestimating the capacity for a dishonest player to argue that if the rules don't say you can't do it, you can do it. Especially in a game that encourages back stabbing. While it's implied that this means within the rules of fair play, bad players will simply say that ANY dishonesty is still within the spirit of the game.

Not to mention the issue with promo items, especially easily reproduced ones such as the Munchkin mask, that can render a player immune for the entire game.

I haven't played in any tournaments, but I have played with some outright cheaters who cling to the "owner gets final say" (to mean they can say anything) and "2.5 seconds" (even when there's no way to see the card that's been played) rules before.

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

While I respect Mr. Kane's desire not to outline too many rules of tournament etiquette, I disagree that we shouldn't be wasting our time with things that are "common sense." As nerftw points out, there are enough loopholes for munchkinly Munchkin players to exploit that I think we need to be clear about some common behaviors that are NOT acceptable.

To name just one: In a Munchkin tournament game, the tournament organizer is the final arbiter of rule questions, regardless of who actually supplied the sets. A player trying to play the "I'm the owner and what I say goes!" card is going to be badly disappointed.

Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own
 

My thought on the easy solution to that is to limit it like bookmarks.
One per game, 2 if you change sex.
Or better yet, to classify it AS a bookmark, meaning using the mask counts as your bookmark for the game, and vice versa.

Personally, I'd limit items to one Permanent, and one Temporary. A temporary item is one that must be destroyed, consumed, given away or the like... pretty much after using it, you no longer own it. This covers most bookmarks.

See, in my games, the "2.6 second rule" doesn't apply. Instead, I auctionize it.

Declare the situation. "Bob is beating then Nose by 4."
Ask for action. "Anyone stopping this?"
Count off. "Going once, going twice, dead"

It doesn't take that long, is quite courteous and avoids all arguments.
When declaring, be loud enough everyone can hear. If people aren't paying attention and miss it, THEIR FAULT. No take backs.
Now, if they miss it, and interrupt during the count off asking what's happening, you tell them. But if they don't know, and miss the count, they're screwed.

As for dice and such, there should just be simple guidelines for cheating and consequences. For instance:

"Minor Rule Violation: A player who breaks a rule with a minor effect shall be penalized with immediate death, along with the consequences of whatever they avoided. The body is looted as per usual. Examples include exceeding your hand limit, forgetting to apply a penalty, or using prohibited items.
If you exceed your hand limit, you must discard (and Charity) immediately, followed by death. If you ignore a Run Away or Sex Change penalty, then you must suffer the Bad Stuff, followed by Death."

"Bad Sportsmanship: A player who exhibits bad sportsmanship during a game will be immediately removed from the game, and given a score of zero for the round. The player may continue to play in subsequent rounds of the tourney. Others may loot the body as if the player had just died. Any cards not claimed after the looting go to Charity."

"Cheating: A player caught explicitly cheating is immediately ejected from the tournament without recourse. Others may loot the body as if the player had just died. Any cards not claimed after the looting go to Charity."

"In the absence of a Judge directly witnessing these acts, accusations must be substantiated by a quorum of players at the affected table. A quorum consists of all the players at a table, less one, excepting the accused. Thus at a 6 player table, 4 players must substantiate an accusation."