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-   -   New and Custom Quirks? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=70956)

Pursuivant 04-28-2024 08:52 AM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pawsplay (Post 2523058)
In the US, atheists are deeply unpopular

Like many other social traits, the game effects of being a member of a minority (non-) religion is very much campaign dependent. Being an atheist in a theocracy or parts of the world where people take their religion very seriously is a bad Reputation, Secret or a Social Stigma.

In most parts of the world being a "militant atheist" can get you killed right up until modern times, although being "secretly atheist" or "secretly agnostic" is likely to be nothing more than a Feature as long as you can go through the motions of being devout and it otherwise doesn't affect your life. (E.g., there was a medieval bishop who made the shocking deathbed confession that he never really believed in god, he was just in the Church for the benefits it provided.)

In fantasy campaigns where gods really exist, atheism or agnosticism is a really bad idea and might be grounds for traits such as Divine Curse.

In places where religious pluralism is the norm and religious intolerance is penalized, being an atheist is just a quirk or a feature unless you're annoying about it. ("I'm an evangelical agnostic! I'm not sure that God exists and I'm not sure that you should believe in His existence either!")

The point at which a potential Social Stigma stops being a problem for you and turns into a problem for those who would stigmatize you is up to the GM. In some cases, it's a two-way street, particularly if the group you stigmatize is extremely rare or hard to detect. Thus, Aetheist (or whatever) and Hates Aethists (or whatever) could both be valid Quirks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawsplay (Post 2523058)
Large Head

Too limited to be a meaningful Quirk, especially in games where customized equipment is the norm or where it's extremely easy to alter standard gear.

A more generic "Hard to Fit" quirk, which requires all but the loosest clothing and gear to be custom-made or altered to fit, would be a solid quirk, however.

Fred Brackin 04-28-2024 09:04 AM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 2523321)
Too limited to be a meaningful Quirk, especially in games where customized equipment is the norm or where it's extremely easy to alter standard gear.

r.

It's only big in times and places where clothing comes in standardized sizes and you aren't one of them but in soem of those getting custom-made items could be very difficult.

Hats aren't very important in most TL8 places but a "Hard to Fit" for footware would be a good bit worse. Gurps actually has a few rules for badly fitting footware.

pawsplay 04-28-2024 09:24 AM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 2523321)
Too limited to be a meaningful Quirk, especially in games where customized equipment is the norm or where it's extremely easy to alter standard gear.

A more generic "Hard to Fit" quirk, which requires all but the loosest clothing and gear to be custom-made or altered to fit, would be a solid quirk, however.

I don't know what a "meaningful Quirk" means. To quote the rulebook,

Quote:

A “quirk” is a minor feature that sets you aside from others. It has a negative point value, but it is not necessarily a disadvantage. For instance, a major trait like Greed is a disadvantage. But if you insist on being paid in gold, that’s a quirk.
It's enough that it shapes behavior or imposes an occasional inconvenience. "Brilliant blue hair" is a canonical Physical Quirk. Dai Blackthorn is "sensitive about his height." I think it's sufficient that Big Head is distinctive from other characters.

But I think you are underestimating the inconvenience. I definitely pay more for hats. There are some hats I just can't have. Even in a world of custom gear, custom gear isn't necessarily made for the character. You might have little trouble getting a new hat in a milliner's shop, although they might charge you for the extra fabric.

But what about a magic helmet? Even with generous sizing, it's going to be an ill fit. Perhaps the Circlet of Ultimate Power sits uneasily on your head, and you can't run or jump while wearing it, without it falling off. If you need to swap places with another PC as a disguise, the hat is probably a no-go.

And it's probably enough to qualify as Distinctive Features when your head is uncovered. You don't stick out like a sore thumb all the time, but it's certainly easier to pick you out from a line-up. I don't know that I would assess a Shadowing penalty all the time, but it's certainly a hindrance to Disguise.

It's just a Quirk. The only requirements are that it be mildly interesting, distinctive from other characters, and more of a hindrance than a help.

RyanW 04-28-2024 05:04 PM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin (Post 2523323)
It's only big in times and places where clothing comes in standardized sizes and you aren't one of them but in soem of those getting custom-made items could be very difficult.

I'd suggest "Hard to fit." You struggle to find clothing that fits, and you often have to pay extra for it (either ordering custom or from a specialty shop). Armor not specifically tailored to you is always considered poor fitting, others have a bonus to see through your stolen uniform disguise, etc. Only really suitable in a setting with mass production, unless you are really hard to fit (We should print up T-shirts. And F-shirts for our friends with two arms on the same side!).

If you start getting down to "hats only" or "shoes only" it's probably a zero point flavor feature. Unless it's really "Noticeably large head" which is really Distinctive Feature plus a trivial nuisance of not being able to wear off-the-shelf hats.

Flyndaran 04-28-2024 05:50 PM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Varyon (Post 2523219)
I'll note this is why I refer to myself as agnostic anytime it comes up. I used to say I was an atheist, but then I found out that "atheist" more often is used to refer to what I would call an antitheist - someone who doesn't just disbelieve in the existence of a god but is deeply hostile to the very concept. With that, you're basically looking at a Quirk-level OPH at a minimum. And, yeah, compulsively arguing with theists is a big part of that.

I think my atheism/anti-theism counts as a quirk, but not as an OPH. I'm not going around starting arguments. I don't hide it, but don't flaunt it

(When I have ideas or questions, I tend to end up on very old threads. I'd end up finding some that I had participated in. I think I used to have an OPH about many things in past.)

Flyndaran 04-28-2024 05:53 PM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanW (Post 2523348)
I'd suggest "Hard to fit." You struggle to find clothing that fits, and you often have to pay extra for it (either ordering custom or from a specialty shop). Armor not specifically tailored to you is always considered poor fitting, others have a bonus to see through your stolen uniform disguise, etc. Only really suitable in a setting with mass production, unless you are really hard to fit (We should print up T-shirts. And F-shirts for our friends with two arms on the same side!).

If you start getting down to "hats only" or "shoes only" it's probably a zero point flavor feature. Unless it's really "Noticeably large head" which is really Distinctive Feature plus a trivial nuisance of not being able to wear off-the-shelf hats.

Anecdote; I have a sizeable head, especially as a child. It meant my short stint at joining a grade school football team required using the biggest helmet they had. It was still tight enough to eventually induce vomiting. Now that is a noggin.

malloyd 04-29-2024 10:04 AM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 2523321)

In most parts of the world being a "militant atheist" can get you killed right up until modern times, although being "secretly atheist" or "secretly agnostic" is likely to be nothing more than a Feature as long as you can go through the motions of being devout and it otherwise doesn't affect your life.

This is of course true for [everything] that you disagree with your neighbors about. Being "militant" about anything whoever you are harassing doesn't share your beliefs about is asking for a fight, and fights can turn lethal.

And for the most part nobody cares too much about anything you keep completely private. Though that's a little less true - a few people do feel a need to pry into private stuff. Mostly the ones that qualify as "militant", which is one of the things that makes them unpopular....

In any case, it's not a feature of the atheism, but the modifier.

Varyon 04-29-2024 10:44 AM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 2523321)
("I'm an evangelical agnostic! I'm not sure that God exists and I'm not sure that you should believe in His existence either!")

We only drink Dr. Pepper in this household!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 2523321)
Too limited to be a meaningful Quirk, especially in games where customized equipment is the norm or where it's extremely easy to alter standard gear.

In DF, for example, several flavors of lizardman have "head armor is not interchangeable with humans" or similar as a Feature. That said, I'd absolutely allow Large Head as a Quirk - while the equipment issues may be a Feature, it's also something of a Distinctive Feature. Not quite as bad as a typical one, perhaps, but combined with the equipment issues I think it should work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2523353)
I think my atheism/anti-theism counts as a quirk, but not as an OPH. I'm not going around starting arguments. I don't hide it, but don't flaunt it

To be clear, my statement was less about what atheists are than about what they are perceived to be (that is, argumentative antitheistic zealots). As my experience is that stating I'm an atheist seems to make people think I'm something other than what I am, I've opted to just skip that using the more neutral term, agnostic.

Dalillama 04-29-2024 11:43 AM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Religion, like other social characteristics, is highly contextual and will represent different GURPS traits based on that. E.g.,in one place,wearing a symbol of a local religion is totally ordinary, everyone does it, and not doing so is a quirk. In another place, which may have the same dominant religion/sect, people are less demonstrative about it, and visibly wearing the symbol all the time is a Quirk. And of course in a third place with a different main religion, wearing that symbol might be a full-blown Social Stigma.

Varyon 04-29-2024 12:33 PM

Re: New and Custom Quirks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalillama (Post 2523434)
Religion, like other social characteristics, is highly contextual and will represent different GURPS traits based on that. E.g.,in one place,wearing a symbol of a local religion is totally ordinary, everyone does it, and not doing so is a quirk. In another place, which may have the same dominant religion/sect, people are less demonstrative about it, and visibly wearing the symbol all the time is a Quirk. And of course in a third place with a different main religion, wearing that symbol might be a full-blown Social Stigma.

On the other side of the equation, you could even have a case where only certain people (say, those who have done some notable service to the relevant religion) are allowed to wear the symbol(s), in which case it could range from a Perk to Social Regard. The dwarves in the Noble Dead Saga have something like this, with only their thanae allowed to wear torcs. Granted, the secular and religious practices of the dwarves are fairly integrated (thanae have a good deal of social status and authority, akin to nobility, but at the same time being such during life is the only path to becoming a Revered Ancestor after death and, perhaps eventually, Baynae - Eternals, the dwarven gods; I believe the authors set up the whole system based roughly on the Catholic process of canonization), but that's not really historically abnormal from my understanding.


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