Steve Jackson Games Forums - Imbuements as Psionic Powers

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Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1000121)

Okay, but what exactly do these things mean? Some are self-explanatory, but some aren't.

3. How would a gestalt affect Imbuement Skills, specifically?

Well, it would allow a group of Imbuement users to use their best Imbue advantage, and pool up skill.

Quote:

4. Extra Effort and Psi Techniques both use rules very specifically aimed at advantages. They don't really translate over to skills. So how would you interpret the various Getting Tricky bits over to skills, specifically?

You could allow techniques to buy off the penalties Imbuement Skills require for more powerful effects. In fact this opens the door for a way to make Imbuement Skills cost no FP:

Better Energy Use
Tech/H
Default: Prerequisite-5, can not exceed prerequisite
Prerequisite: Any Imbuement Skill

Using this technique removes the FP cost of this single Imbuement Skill.

The existence of this technique means that for a 6 point surcharge, a single Imbuement Skill can cost no FP (Remember that Penetrating weapon (Guns(Pistol)) and Penetrating Weapon (broadsword) are different skills)

It looks balanced, but perhaps it might be overpowered.

Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1000031)

No, this is definitely not the case. Nowhere does the article say that the way Imbuement Skills work changes. The only effect of adding Psionic is that you get a point break because your Imbuement Skills can be Neutralized, affected by Psi Static, etc. Nothing else changes.

First, that's not what psionic powers states. You get -10% for supernatural and mundane countermeasures, AND psionics now functions under the rules in "How Psionics Work."

Second, I agree that this wouldn't reduce the FP cost of Imbuement skills, but I didn't read Edges "FP Costs" as "I want imbuement skills to cost nothing to use." I was assuming he was talking about FP for psionic techniques and whatnot. The other three members of his list are all components of How Psionics Works, so I assumed he meant FP Costs in the same vein.

Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Giving all of the Psionic Powers an extra "costs fatigue" (with resulting point cost reduction) would be a simple way to regularize them with Imbuement.

Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1000121)

Okay, but what exactly do these things mean? Some are self-explanatory, but some aren't.

1. This is probably done most easily by further limiting that "Imbuement Talent 5" that I suggested, so that it doesn't work when retrying after a failed roll. (But before we discuss a fair value, we have to talk about #4.)

Cool. Let's look at #4 and discuss a fair value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1000121)

2. Imbuements only last for an instant. So the only time you'd have "multiple uses" is when you're using multiple skills on the same attack (e.g., using Burning Strike and Penetrating Strike together to do (2) burn damage). If you're just talking about -1 per stacked skill . . . man, I don't know if that's even worth -5% on Imbue. Normally each -5% is -3 to skill (Hard to Use), so it seems like this should be more like -2%.

I'm referring to Repeated Attempts PP6. You try to do Burning Strike on someone and fail, to try it again you use 1FP and roll at -1. Many Psionic abilities only last an instant too and still suffer from the Repeated Attempts limitation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1000121)

3. How would a gestalt affect Imbuement Skills, specifically?

For example, two apprentice imbuers know Continuing Attack at Att+2 each. They each stand behind the master, touch either shoulder, and form a gestalt. Now the master can use Continuing Attack at Att+6 instead of Att+4 (which he normally has). This makes him confident to give the cyclic attack shorter intervals.

Assuming we've integrated all the Psionic Powers rules for the Psionic Imbuement power, the apprentices could also contribute FP to reduce the master's penalties for a really effective Continuing Attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1000121)

Yes, this seems to be a central issue. Well, Getting Tricky generally involves adding Enhancements. The only enhancements I can think of adding to Imbuements (off hand) are already defined as other Imbuements. We could add a limitation to the special Talent you created so that if you stack Imbuements (that aren't pre-bought Combinations) you do pay the FP cost.

Furthermore, if the Extra Effort for Psis rule that gives +1 skill per 1FP was used, we could just say that if you want to use an Imbuement beyond the base level, the first -2 is automatically eaten up by 2FP. This mimics Getting Tricky. Since a lot of the Imbuements are kinda lame at the base level, maybe it could be ruled that it's only considered Getting Tricky if one uses them beyond a fixed penalty or beyond the level that they've been bought up as a Technique.

Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by munin (Post 1000148)

But wouldn't your Imbuement advantage switch off as soon as you stopped concentrating to do an attack maneuver?

This may be. It may be better to go with Takes Extra Time after all and let them use Imbuements for a minute before having to ready the power again.

I think my players would like that better anyway. : )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1000152)

Better Energy Use
Tech/H
Default: Prerequisite-5, can not exceed prerequisite
Prerequisite: Any Imbuement Skill

This is cool. But I think my players would rather spent [15] or so to have "costs no FP" for all of their Imbuements rather than pay [6] for each. I guess if they only had 1 or 2 Imbuements, this would be good.

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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk (Post 1000153)

I didn't read Edges "FP Costs" as "I want imbuement skills to cost nothing to use." I was assuming he was talking about FP for psionic techniques and whatnot. The other three members of his list are all components of How Psionics Works, so I assumed he meant FP Costs in the same vein.

Yes, I think you know what I'm talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 1000174)

Giving all of the Psionic Powers an extra "costs fatigue" (with resulting point cost reduction) would be a simple way to regularize them with Imbuement.

Yes, probably.

But I'm not trying to make Psionics like Imbuements. I'm trying to make Imbuements like Psionics.

Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1000031)

No, reducing the FP cost via enhancement is a crock, just like it would be for spells. Like for spells, if you want to reduce the FP cost, you need to soak the -5 penalty. Try:

Imbuement Talent 5 (Only to reduce FP cost, -40%) [15]

Ahhh.....isn't Imbuement Talent 10/level, for a final cost of [30] for 5 levels @ -40%?

Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazander (Post 1000279)

Ahhh.....isn't Imbuement Talent 10/level, for a final cost of [30] for 5 levels @ -40%?

I think that's why he followed by saying:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1000031)

...it's only 5 points/level because, unlike the Imbuement Talent at the back of PU1, it only applies to Imbuements -- not to the various Afflictions and Innate Attacks that Imbuement Power allows you to buy.

Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edges (Post 1000266)

Yes, I think you know what I'm talking about.

<snip>

But I'm not trying to make Psionics like Imbuements. I'm trying to make Imbuements like Psionics.

All you have to do is add Psionic, -10% to the Imbuement advantage, in this case.

Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk (Post 1000338)

All you have to do is add Psionic, -10% to the Imbuement advantage, in this case.

It does seen to suggest that on PP4. But since the writer of PP replied to that suggestion by saying,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1000031)

...it made me wonder. If he or anyone can show how this is not balanced, it could save me some headache down the road when players start working the new system.

Otherwise I'm cool with doing it that way. I would also need to add the 15 point Talent from up-thread to remove the inherent FP cost of Imbuements, no? Anything else?

Re: Imbuements as Psionic Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edges (Post 1000266)

If you want to have Imbuements not cost fatigue, ever, you can simply add a 6 point surcharge to anyone purchasing Imbuement Skills, sort of like an unusual background. It's more expensive in the long run than the 15 points thing proposed by others, but again, I'm not that fond of that solution (Talents are usually limited to 4 levels, and in my games, taking a talent so limited would mean that you can not get talent bonuses as usual)