Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

I am absolutely willing to admit that the no-history-early concept is a personal pet peeve that most people don't share or even think about.

And note that I never once said that history shouldn't be included in a setting or that it isn't important. History is absolutely important for those who want to understand the current world around them. I was a history major in college, for example, and I enjoy reading Wikipedia about the origins of various institutions in the real world, but none of that knowledge helps me in my day-to-day life at all. Now, a professional historian obviously needs to know that sort of thing and it does affect his daily life, but there aren't very many professional historians in the world. For most people, it doesn't matter how such-a-such institution was formed, only that it does exist today in this way.

Bill already discusses a way to do this and says it better than I could, so I won't belabor my point here. :)

And please note that I don't claim that my way is the right way to present information. There is no "right" way, there are only different ways. It's not something that people always think about, so even if you don't change the way you're doing things (and you shouldn't change just because of my opinion!) you are now at least aware that other ways of presenting information exist. :)

Yeah, this is largely my point (well, everything you said in that post, which I didn't want to use up screen space to quote all of): if your characters don't need the information to operate within the society in which they live, the information doesn't need to be in a prominent place.

If you're writing for others, it is always best to break up information into bite-sized chunks when you can. Certainly, the GURPS community here on the forums seems to have a higher-than-average attention span, but if you want to appeal to as many people as possible (and if you want to sell something, you do) you should make it as easy to read (and as easy to look up later) as possible.

Yup. All the how-it-came-to-be probably needs to be in the book, but I (obviously) feel it should come after the here-it-is-today.

But that's not ideal. That's as close as we can get today with the reality of the dying TRPG industry. The ideal is two books. The present-day best-case-scenario is to divide one book into a player section and a GM section. But note that most players will read the GM section anyway, because humans are curious creatures. ;)

I didn't say they didn't. I said they don't need as much. A player doesn't need a 10-page chapter on the setting's history, but the GM probably does. If a player needs to read the history section because his character is a historian, it's not hard for the GM to hand him the GM book and let him read just that chapter. Ostensibly, in that situation the history chapter would be written in such a way as to not include spoilers.

Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

Enforcement isn't my goal. These players would buy both books even if you physically split it.

With the usual intermixed text, it's impossible to avoid the spoilers even if you try. So, sure, you can read everything and then pretend you don't know all the surprises already, but that's just plain less fun. Or you can not read anything at all and be utterly clueless about the world and your character, which is even less fun.

Game authors should be aware that they're writing for a game, not writing a milieu novel, and help make it fun for everyone, not just the GMs.

Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

I would add that it isn't just game authors, us GMs tend to do this type of thing too, we write backstory as if we were writing for other GMs, but the truth is most players get information overload if we give them a brief which is intended for a GM...

Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

Ah, yes, I definitely agree with this. I think the desire to do this exact thing is why some game companies resort to producing Players Guides. The problem with the approach they take, I think, is that the players guides are almost never the first or second books they put out for their settings, like they should be. Too often, they seem like after thoughts. :\

Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

My experience matches yours. many of our most memorable sessions have come from such ideas

Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

Details are inspiration for great and different stories. Great for the flow of creative juices! The more depth the more strange interactions to create fantastic tales exist!

Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

Not Eurasia?

oops...
As a player I almost always appreciate the little things that add authenticity to the setting... but as a GM, actually writing all that stuff down bores me to tears. I would much rather make broad outlines and wing the details as necessary. Consistency becomes the fly in the ointment :/

... or inconsistency, depending on which way you are looking.

Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

thats me in a nutshell.
thats my strongsuit,when i start running a game my brain just kicks into overdrive and i surprise my self a lot of times.
just seems to make stuff just pop up when ''in'' game.
a lot of times i draw a blank when sitting by myself and thinking up detailed misc stuff is a serious hassle,that stops when i say game start and players are present and then the ideas don't stop.
i guess i'm one of those g.m's who like interaction and it's easier to mesh the background into the players you have when they are present.
plus you can tweek it to match the game ''in progress''.
i love winging it.
i just have a broad outline and let the details take care of themselves,then thats when the real work starts,when the players are doing something in game and the session ends and you have to work your keister off to prepare for the next session.
but then i have drive because i have a reason to do it.
it's alway nebulous and vague untill the players get involved.
i save my copious notes from the game and add the important facts to my world.
more towns and cities and villidges have ''popped'' up when i needed one to be somewhere when i did'nt have that section of my world detailed out,then it's there permanately.
wallah,world building on the fly!

Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

That happens with me, too, but I find that prep effort leaves me with more springboards. "Chance favors the prepared mind," as Pasteur said.

Bill Stoddard

Re: Cool Backstory Syndrome
 

yeah i do a lot of broad prep and some detailed if i know it will affect whats going on around the characters,such as something obvious thats to hard to miss,or i want it to be noticed for some reason.
i don't wing the setting as a whole as i need a solid setting to base my winging.
when i wing it,it's usually something i have to improvise on because the players went a direction i had not forseen or overlooked in the details of the background.
seems like everytime you thought you had just about everything covered,the players always make you wing something,and sometimes that will lead to scenerios better than what you had in mind originally.