Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

Just looked it up Distant Blow does exist in 4th Ed. It does require "standard ranged attack modifiers" and in the description it is described very much like I would imagine a strike using TK.



But then I am biassed.

Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

I draw a lot, I'm pretty decent at it, although I wouldn't call myself a professional, it's better than a lot of art I've seen around. As an amateur artist I can tell you that it's not "binary". Reality is rarely "binary". The loss of information from vision to brain is massive, every inch closer represents masses of information you don't loose. It makes a big difference.

In drawing, you often find yourself bending over the paper to see closely. And if distance made no difference, why would we have "zoom" features in drawing programs.

You take darkness penalties in melee, which is ENTIRELY because of visibility. You can still see the target, quite well from -6 up. Yet, the lack of discernment costs you skill.

Unfortunately, I can't argue much more. You have assumed the posture that visibility or perception of the target is all or nothing ("binary" as you say) and that intermediate states are completely irrelevant. This is contrary to a lot of evidence in the rules in general. Frankly, I'd understand better if you were arguing from the purely rules perspective of "it doesn't say there's a range penalty, so there isn't". But you're entitled to your position, even if I clearly disagree and think your logic is flawed.

Yup, this is true for 3e Distant Blow, which seems the exact same thing as TK blows. I refrained to using this as an example because it's 3e and because it had, if I remember correctly, questionable defenses (defenses didn't take range into account, I think). Edit didn't know it existed in 4e, so there you have it.

Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

On the originl question, the wording of Distant Blow doesn't help me form an opinion for allowing Telegraphed Attacks for either that or Telekinesis.

Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

Telekinesis. The TK manipulation moves to where you want it, and there's nothing about that that involves 'aiming'. You just will it there, and it goes.

Consider, if you were pointing out a small spot far away on a parking lot, would it be easier to do so accurately using a laser pointer, or by driving a remote-control car to the spot? TK moves like the car, not the laser dot.
Well, probably not, but that's not going to give you a range penalty, it's going to outright deny you a Lockpicking roll.
Ok. So should Acute Vision give bonuses to drawing? Or at least to drawing without using zoom features or sticking your nose in the drawing pad?
Certainly, and I'm not sure exactly why you take darkness penalties in melee. My guess would be that you, in fact, can't see the target "quite well", but rather can see it quite poorly over most of that penalty range.

The visual effects of darkness and distance seem quite different, though, so I don't assume the game would treat them the same.

Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

If that were the case, there would be no need to roll at all. You'd always automatically hit, unless it was defended against. The comparison to hands being at the location isn't casual, you still have to manage to land your punches or whatever.
Edit: if what you say is true, then there certainly can be no Telegraphic Attack, as that's basically extra careful aiming, it also disallows most combat maneuvers and options, which don't suit the "hands there" thing.

Not really, because most of the skill is still up to practice once you have the basic prerequisites at a decent level. It's bad vision that gives you penalties. And yes, you can't draw as well if you can't see clearly, the better you can see, the more you can work the details in, provided you have the skill. But if you can't see at all, the skill is no good, and if you can see badly, your skill suffers. I can put on my girlfriend's glasses, get blurry vision, and draw... it turns out to be crap (looks like a very childish and bad cartoon). If I close my eyes, it's even crappier (I'm lucky if the eye is inside the head's space). It's definitely not binary, the less information, the worse.

If you look at what the darkness penalty levels mean, you'll notice that visibility is quite "good" in many of those cases. My point here was to show that there is a clear visual component in hitting things, and that it's not binary, it's gradual. Or is treated as gradual in GURPS. The closer, the more adequately lit, the bigger and the more stationary your target is, the better.

TK ignoring all this seems munchkinny. By your reasoning it shouldn't be any harder grab an object passing by at mach 4 than it is to catch a stone mid trhowing arc, or a plume slowly drifting to the ground. Or to catch a minuscule falling pin and a falling banana. Size and speed seem to matter, I don't see why range would not.

Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

This is because you need to succeed in a to-hit roll before rolling 1d-2 for damage, and I was discussing failures to hit rather than successes.

Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

Wow, Thanks for the enlightenment! Distant blow was one of those spells that wasn't used regularly (if magic was even allowed at all) so I'd forgotten all about it.
This has made the most sense to me and I'm glad to hear from the many voices that I'm not alone. I needed to have some sort of RAW before I made a final decision in the game I'm running. I'll use this until the great minds here behind SJ Games and GURPS rule it one way or another and have it officially added to the lists of errata. ;)

Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

The PC initially invoking this thread has purchased the area effect with his TK. With this I'll allow as many fast-draws as he would like to make but at a cumulative penalty for each successive attempt. After the first failure... that's it - no more attempts for that round. When he goes to flourish his ability in the form of an intimidation using weapon art, all readied objects have to perform the exact same movement or he suffers a penalty for each object in independant motion.
I'd, of course, have no arguement about the whole distance thing if the character had an appropriate ability in the lines of ESP. But then he might need to buy into compartmentalized mind to effectively use them both at the same time!
You hit on a lot of the points I was trying to address. Thank you for all of your input!

Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

Uh-uh, nope, TK is not some self-willed poltergeist you're unleashing on a target, it's basically an invisible extra pair of hands which reach out from your body, you're basically launching a right cross from where you're standing to a target a 100 yards away.

Meh, the driving a remote-control car you're describing sounds more like some sort of remote sensing with both touch and vision, TK actually moves like flying hands which you send out flying to strike at the target at the speed of thought on your turn.

Though of course we'd allow the penalty reduction for aiming which you could describe as moving slowly to the point, just like driving a remote-control car to the spot, not that I'd describe it that way, but that'd take a lot longer than normal aiming the way you're describing it...

Re: TK and Telegraphing attacks...
 

We try to help, if nothing else we give you a wall to bounce your thoughts off of.