Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

Still sounds screwy to me. All the other niches support the party as a whole in one way or another. And it doesn't emulate any dungeon fantasy game I've ever come across. I've never encountered the "Being much richer than all the other PCs" niche in any game I've ever played. Now that I've been told that the rules did support some characters starting with ten times more money than others, I'm sure I must have been in games where that happened even if I can't remember it, but I really don't see it as anywhere near as big a deal as this Wealth thing appears to be. That one character started with 20 gp and another with 200 is going to be forgotten long before they've reached 2nd level (both having earned about 2000 gp along the way).

So money doesn't help achieve any of those other goals? I find that hard to imagine.

It doesn't matter as much as I originally thought, though. I was thinking in terms of the Wealthy character having spent 50 out of 100 points on his wealth. If it's actually 20 points out of 300, he should be able to pull his own weight in the dungeon-crawl. I'd probably just buy Wealth myself and undercut his prices ;-).


Hans

Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

How does "I can get you 1.5 to 1.75 times as much money for your loot as you can get on your own" not supporting the rest of the party? Because he's taking a similar cut for himself instead of doing it as charity for the rest of the gang?

Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

The answer doesn't change because you ask the question once more. For the same reason the fighter doesn't charge him for defending him from the monsters, the healer doesn't charge him for healing him, the rogue doesn't charge him for opening the safe, etc.


Hans

Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

Agreed. When I use terms like "enforce" and "should roleplay," I'm not talking rules and regulations designed to prevent (or cause) hard feelings. I'm talking about polite understandings between friends. If somebody plays with envious, annoying gits who get real-life hate on over a game, then nothing I can write for DF or in any other gaming book is going to help . . . People like that should find a new hobby.

Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

Not in DF, not really. See the subject line: DF. There, points are the main way to realize 90% of your goals. Coin helps, but hoarding coin is mainly the tongue-in-cheek joke of the series. There isn't all that much you can do with coin that points won't do better. However, it's a valid character concept to fight that trend and be Coin Guy anyway.

Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

Metagame issues that cause real world anger should not be brushed off like that. Just because their CHARACTERS don't know its happening, doesn't mean the PLAYERS don't know it's happening. This is why things like cheating with dice rolls is bad: it makes PLAYERS angry - the characters don't have a clue it's going on.

It may be "bad roleplaying" to then take it out in character, and it's probably not very helpful to the underlying issue of lack of respect, but it doesn't change the fact that one PLAYER is ******* off the other PLAYERS.

Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

Let's consider this for an instant:

Mr Moneybags doesn't want to "scam" his party members, and decides that he wants his share of the loot in items, that he sells at 100%. The other adventurers can do whatever they wish with their shares. They're getting only 40% though. In this situation, yeah, Mr Moneybags could be said to be acting selfishly, in that he just adds power, not synergy, to the party. And it's fair, because he paid points for being able to sell items for more.

Now, Mr Moneybags has a keep business sense (He's Filthy Rich after all), so he purchases the items from his party companions at +75% of what the merchant offers them, and stashes them until they return to town after the next delve (since after the first visit to the merchant, the prices are fixed, even if it's another character who tries to sell the item), and sells them for a tidy profit. He's not only getting more cash, he's also making everyone else earn more cash.

Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

Yes, part of the reason I mentioned that psychology experiment was because I recalled seeing 'halfsies' in the previous posts. It indeed seems to be the 'acceptable' level of graft, while you correctly point out that McMoneybags gets almost three times as much money in the end. And this 1:2.66 seems a mite large difference for a 20 point advantage in a 300 point game (?). But it of course depends a lot how you use money in your game. What I have heard so far from Kromm and TBC about DF, it seems that money is pretty much a background feature and the true prizes are the magical items that are not for sale and the experience. In this kind of game, it indeed is no big deal.

To answer Icelander...

It not about money, per se, but what that money buys in the campaign. I am from a gamer background where more IC money meant better IC equipment which allowed the chars to leverage their adventuring potential quite a lot. To take that scifi campaign as an example, a 1:3 disparity in money inflow would have meant that the Wealthy Guy would have had equipment pretty much impervious to the guns that the other PCs (and most of the NPCs) would be using, allowing him to 'muscle in' to other character's niches.

I believe that I am not alone in feeling that every character should feel like they are the main character occasionally. When they can do their thing. When they are constantly overshadowed by someone else, that is when the annoyance sets in.

And yes, humans tend to be spiteful when it comes to resources, imaginary or not. Must be a survival trait to some extent to dislike the guy 'hogging' the resources. :)

Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

You (the people who disagree with me) can keep posting the same arguments over and over again and we (me and the people who agree with me) can keep posting the same arguments over and over again, but I don't see what good that accomplishes. If I could come up with new arguments, I would, and if you could come up with new arguments, I'd certainly consider them carefully. But for now, maybe we should agree to disagree?


Hans

Re: [DF] - Party wealth disparity
 

I too have suffered from the mistaken idea that money were useful in DF, a prime source of superior equipment and useful items. If it's just an irrelevance, well, that's a whole different story.


Hans