Steve Jackson Games Forums - [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

Steve Jackson Games Forums (https://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)

- GURPS (https://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)

- - [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=67428)

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksmith (Post 943629)

This is partially why it is harder to make social races who have no empathy that it is non social. If orcs are truly from a harsh climate they should be very giving to other orcs at least. They might have a strong prejudice against non orcs but they should have empathy and the ability to work together. Of course if you get more alien then you can have somewhat different basis's for social organization.

I think that's why Banestorm gives orcs their peculiar take on the Eternal. They treat everything as a challenge to them, as a matter of faith, and a) only cooperate with someone they've acknowledged they can't beat, b) only until they do figure out how to beat them, and c) only so as to gain assistance beating a third party.

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidtmoore (Post 943633)

The point is that this view would be very counter productive in harsh conditions. It was to make them feel more like Orcs, but it really does not fit very well with humans who live in harsh climates.

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesir23 (Post 943524)

If the tiger is not evil for eating a man, than why is the ogre evil for doing the same?

Because tigers aren't able to use clerical magic and hence are unaligned in the battle between the gods.

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksmith (Post 943501)

The point is that humans can be very remarkably cruel. .

That point would only be relevant if humans could never be evil. Since the word "evil" was invented to describe humans in the first place...

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 943651)

That point would only be relevant if humans could never be evil. Since the word "evil" was invented to describe humans in the first place...

So what human societies are/were evil? Why not give them cultures based on those societies?

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksmith (Post 943660)

So what human societies are/were evil? Why not give them cultures based on those societies?

I don't understand the question.

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

I believe Blacksmith meant "give the Evil race's cultures based on Evil human cultures"

Wouldn't the real world be better described as shades of grey instead of black and white?

Individual humans can be Evil but societies couldn't, one might get into the darkest third of the shades of grey and be considered Evil, but that doesn't make it black.

I think the original post was about groups who are black instead of very dark grey.

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksmith (Post 943601)

Aren't cats very likely compared to dogs to eat a deceased owner?

Or a living one...

If my cat runs out of food while I'm asleep I've caught her nibbling on me.

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

I'm going to completely miss the point, but anyway...

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksmith (Post 943436)

You just need to have resources stretched enough for it to be essentially a choice between a human child and the hobgoblin child, or make the non humans alien enough that they are trying to change the world so that they can live in it instead of humans.

Or non-humans that while perfectly understandable (technically not alien at
all) for reasons of biology/biobabble can at best co-exist with non-them if
safely separated by geography.
Consider a species that pretty much amount to humanoid shrews, with a
metabolism that means they need to eat maybe half their weight or more
each day. Add young that are pretty much just smaller and stupider/less
experienced adults, fully independent days after being born, and a pretty high
birthrate. And a short-ish attention span (probably as in "But then I got
hungry...").
Their view of non-them (and not-their-tribe-them) when not hungry is still
debated by the sages and possibly irrelevant since sooner or later they will
become desperately hungry. And since they are not cannibals and can't eat
their weapons and armour...
Not evil any more than any dumb animal with very high metabolism is and
technically there is nothing that prevents them from including non-them in
the "do not eat"-category, but they'll be wreaking havoc on the local
ecosystem and have big trouble co-existing with non-them.

This, incidentally, is my reskin/rewrite of Dungeons & Dragons kobolds.

On the other hand, I prefer to have the species "neutral"*, maybe moderately
alien**, and leave the evil bit to culture.
After all, it's not as if there aren't human cultures that, when filtered through
(for example) a Victorian historian or anthropologist, comes across as
anything from irredeemably to cartoonishly evil.

*Well, the "natural" ones. Predatory undead and extradimensional beings is
another matter.
**I don't have GURPS Fantasy so I don't know if it's there as well, but the
personality traits from Uplift and Space have a lot of potential here.

Re: [DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathulhu (Post 943665)

I believe Blacksmith meant "give the Evil race's cultures based on Evil human cultures"E]

We already do that. Organized evil races have a distinct tendency to look like all the worst features of Rome and the Nazis. Disorganized evil races have a distinct tendency to look like the worst features of the Goths and the Nazis.

Quote:

Wouldn't the real world be better described as shades of grey instead of black and white?

Yes. However DF has nothing to with with describing the real world.