Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

Hi,

I have a quick question. While playing Munchkin, another player entered combat and played a Restraining Order on me. I then played Annihilation to remove the Restraining Order from the game, effectively negating its effects. However, the player argued that the Annihilation was being played against him, and thus violated the conditions of Restraining Order.

Is this true, or should Annihilation be interpreted literally? (i.e. can be played at any time on any one card...if the card to be removed has just been played, it is canceled and has no effect.)

Thanks in advance!

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

If Restraining Order has just been played Annihilation can work on it as it is one of the few "interrupt" cards that can eliminate a cards affects as they are being played to make it so that it was never played.

If Restraining Order is in effect, as in it was put down and another card has been put down, then Annihilation cannot be played.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

Thanks for the reply.

That's an interesting take on things. In this scenario, Annihilation was played immediately after Restraining Order was just played - player A put down Restraining order, and player B put down Annihilation. But I'm wondering why, even if Restraining Order is in effect, Annihilation cannot be played to remove it (or anything else for that matter)? I don't have Annihilation in front of me, but I recall that it says it can be played at any time on any card (in play). Doesn't that make Annihilation distinct from say an Out to Lunch or Monsters are Busy, which I agree would not be playable if Restraining Order is in effect?

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

The very text of Annihilation says that it cancels a card that has just been played, so Restraining Order doesn't actually go into effect because of Annihilation. It's one of the very, very few cards in Munchkin that has such an effect.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

This is the fun part....

As its being played, Restraining Order is a card and Annihilation can be played on any card just as it says...

Once it is played the card becomes an effect, and the effect of Restraining Order is that no cards can be played on you by that player.

The special case here is that we aren't robots...so as Restraining Order is first being played there is a window of opportunity before it takes effect (even on immediate effects) that Annihilation can be played....

Once other cards have been layed down Restraining Order definitely takes effect....and therefore Annihilation can't be played on it as Annihilation is still a card.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

Thanks for the clarifications.

@MunchkinMan:

I'm still uncertain about the timing. Does the immediacy of playing Annihilation on Restraining Order matter? Given the scenario provided by StaticHamster for instance:

So in this case where the other card played after Restraining Order is not Annihilation, would the player, who Restraining Order is targeting, still be able to use Annihilation? In other words, does Restraining Order make Annihilation time-sensitive?

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

Annihilation makes Annihilation time sensitive. It can cancel a just-played card. It can also remove a previously played card, but since Restraining Order prevents you from playing cards against the player who played Restraining Order, once it actually takes effect (something which can be prevented by playing Annihilation), you couldn't play Annihilation if the person who played Restraining Order then played another card, because the window when Annihilation could be played was closed because the last played card was not Restraining Order.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

I would go even a little further than Erik. If you wait more than a few seconds to play Annihilation on Restraining Order, I would rule that the "card just played" condition has passed, and Restraining Order is in effect, even if no other cards have been played since.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

You have to be careful there, though. By saying that, you imply that the "2.6 second" rule applies to more than just combat.

I'm not saying I disagree, but I don't want people thinking that you have some period of time between every single play before they can move on to the next one. . .

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

Thanks again for the responses. I understand it now.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

okay i get that annhilation can be used to to cancel restraining order but what if that card (O R'lyeh i think it is, i coundn't find it from the last game)from munchkin cthulhu is played? would it cancel annhilation?

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

O R'lyeh is basically Annihilation reskinned and slightly changed, so I would rule that one could be used to cancel the other.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

Hi, While I do agree on the outcome of the discussion (Annihilation can be used to destroy the Restraining Order), I don't agree on this logic.

Why can't the player destroy the restraining order after it is in effect? destroying it does not have direct impact on the player who played it (e.g I can destroy the Annihilation Order but to decide eventually not to put any cards against the player who used the AO).

I see it the same way as a curse removing action, if I decide to remove a curse that I'm possessed with, does that mean I use it against the player who put the AO?

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

Once the Restraining Order has taken effect, the target of the Order is prohibited from playing any cards that detrimentally affect the player who played the Order. This absolutely includes Annihilation after the fact, because it would remove the protection provided by Restraining Order.

Your comparison to canceling a Curse that is affecting you is poorly formed. In that case, you aren't canceling an effect on the player of the Restraining Order, so there's nothing to cause that card to trigger.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

Hi, Thank you for the quick response. Me and my friends had a big argue regarding this issue.

And still, I disagree with you, and I will try to express why with this example:
Player A is a Bard, and he tries to force Player B to help him in combat. The dices are rolled and player A got 5 while player B got 2, but player b owns a Loaded Dice, which he wanna use to win the dice roll and avoid joining the battle. Can player A user RO to deny player B from using the dice?

The logic here for me is, if the card you are using is for your own defense, you can use it because RO can only deny attack cards directed on the RO owner. But destroying the RO itself is a defense act, not a direct attack on the RO owner, and therefor it should be permitted.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

You're welcome to play it that way in your home games, but the official ruling stands as given above.

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

Really? is there any other specific clarification besides the RO card text?

and what about the scenario I gave, what do you say? can the Bard use his RO to deny the Loaded Die from the player who was forced to join the combat? because using the dice would effect negatively the Bard combat.

Anyway I really appreciate your comments and answers. thank you for that. :)

Re: Can Annihilation be played on Restraining Order?
 

See below. If that doesn't clarify things for you, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about the interpretation.

Restraining Order doesn't prevent a player from using cards on herself. It prevents a specific player from playing cards on the person who played Restraining Order, if the effect of those cards would be negative to the RO player. Using Annihilation to cancel RO would definitely qualify as a negative effect.