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The Wrathchild 12-17-2009 04:42 AM

Re: Dodge question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sabanknight (Post 898714)
We are in a game at the moment and was wondering, if attacked from the rear and sides if you are aware of an attack do you have a - to active defences

As others have already pointed out, attacks from side hexes give the defender a -2 penalty to succeed. Attacks from the rear hex leave no option for defence.

But!

Beware the "Runaround attack"-rule! For an attack to truly be from the rear and not fall under this rule, the attacker has to start the turn INSIDE the two lines of hexes traced through the defenders SIDE hexes. See the scematic for vision on B74 - you have to come from a black hex to get a true "no defence possible" attack - and that is actually pretty hard to do in tactical combat where opponents are aware of you, because they often go and change facing on you on THEIR turn, putting you into Runaround Attack-territory.

If you look at the box for the runaround rule, you'll see the phrase "start from the front". I took that to mean the front 180 degrees for a long time, but have since been corrected by Kromm.

And the above is for people with normal vision. For Peripheral Vision and 360 degree vision there is no true rear hex, as mentioned.

I also think that the above takes care of that "what if I look the other way than where my body is facing, by giving you 270 degree awareness.

vitruvian 12-17-2009 01:49 PM

Re: Dodge question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wrathchild (Post 900015)
As others have already pointed out, attacks from side hexes give the defender a -2 penalty to succeed. Attacks from the rear hex leave no option for defence.

But!

Beware the "Runaround attack"-rule! For an attack to truly be from the rear and not fall under this rule, the attacker has to start the turn INSIDE the two lines of hexes traced through the defenders SIDE hexes. See the scematic for vision on B74 - you have to come from a black hex to get a true "no defence possible" attack - and that is actually pretty hard to do in tactical combat where opponents are aware of you, because they often go and change facing on you on THEIR turn, putting you into Runaround Attack-territory.

If you look at the box for the runaround rule, you'll see the phrase "start from the front". I took that to mean the front 180 degrees for a long time, but have since been corrected by Kromm.

And the above is for people with normal vision. For Peripheral Vision and 360 degree vision there is no true rear hex, as mentioned.

I also think that the above takes care of that "what if I look the other way than where my body is facing, by giving you 270 degree awareness.

Of course, this leaves out what happens if you have a sense other than vision that gives you 360 degree coverage. Can Daredevil dodge attacks from behind like he does in the comics, or not at all?

Kuroshima 12-17-2009 02:12 PM

Re: Dodge question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vitruvian (Post 900271)
Of course, this leaves out what happens if you have a sense other than vision that gives you 360 degree coverage. Can Daredevil dodge attacks from behind like he does in the comics, or not at all?

Daredevil probably has Pararadar with 360º arc, and hearing based. Any targeting sense can be used to allow active defenses, IIRC.

vitruvian 12-17-2009 08:39 PM

Re: Dodge question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 900283)
Daredevil probably has Pararadar with 360º arc, and hearing based. Any targeting sense can be used to allow active defenses, IIRC.

Is that stated explicitly, or does the RAW text only reference advantages that expand the scope of actual vision?

Anyway, either way, on that principle I'd allow a successful Blind Fighting roll to allow for this as well, on the basis that if you're able to use your other senses to target attacks in total darkness, against the invisible, or if totally blind, then you can target those behind you (and their attacks) as well.

Darekun 12-18-2009 12:00 AM

Re: Dodge question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nymdok (Post 899574)
Quote:

Originally Posted by thulben (Post 899565)
"Shooting Blind" on B389 implies that it's -10.

The Blindness disadvantage agrees with you.

Blindness is a special case - its modifier assumes you're used to it. Visibility, B394: "Attacker cannot see anything. If the attacker is blind or in total darkness, … He attacks at -10 (-6 if he is accustomed to being blind)." I guess the defense modifier is lighter than ½ on the grounds that you don't have to reach a "dodge location" or such, anywhere out of the region being attacked is good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitruvian (Post 900479)
Is that stated explicitly, or does the RAW text only reference advantages that expand the scope of actual vision?

Personally, I'd say Daredevil has Dark Vision with Hypersensory(p46, Powers), and similarly-modified vision advantages… but other examples come to mind, like a dolphin and a shark fighting in water opaque with silt. In the case of Scanning Sense, it states "you may ignore darkness penalties in combat", which if you require the rules to make sense implies enough. That seems to be as close as RAW gets, though.

Given that 360° Vision completely eliminates facing penalties to defend, it does seem to be purely a matter of perception…

Wicked Lurker 12-18-2009 01:53 PM

Re: Dodge question
 
There is a RAW quote that says you can defend against Choke Holds from behind if you are aware you are being attacked.

Quote:

p. 404 A victim who is aware of you may attempt any legal defense, but suffers the usual penalties for an attack from behind.
Since this is very likely not refering to a runaround attack this again implies you may be allowed to defend if you know you are being attacked from behind.

The Wrathchild 12-18-2009 03:13 PM

Re: Dodge question
 
Say, that is an interesting quote. Mayhap the line editors would take an interest in that one.

cccwebs 12-18-2009 04:54 PM

Re: Dodge question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked Lurker (Post 900909)
There is a RAW quote that says you can defend against Choke Holds from behind if you are aware you are being attacked.



Since this is very likely not refering to a runaround attack this again implies you may be allowed to defend if you know you are being attacked from behind.

The keywords are "legal defense". If you can't defend because you lack the appropriate advantages, then you don't get to defend.


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