Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

Based on the experience of actually writing the thing... Yes, deciding especially appropriate advantages and disadvantages for a priest of X is usually a ten-minute job or so. What took a significant amount of staring at text and brain strain - the suffering-for-my-art-so-you-don't-have-to bit - was coming up with reasonably plausible, balanced-looking spell tables for each category.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

The idea of dungeons isn't necessarily silly. Rather it depends of your point of view.

My experience was different people was playing (and plays) D&D in different ways. Many groups gamed with the style you're speaking of, but I always took a more serious approach. After all, I liked D&D and the main reason for leaving it behind then was because the awful rules making almost impossible to roleplay satisfactorily and making very difficult to handle flexible situations properly from the GM point of view.

OTOH my approach to D&D and roleplaying games was through literature and art. When I saw them (and henceforth) both of them were "serious", and I always tried to make my best to port some of the qualities existent in that art to my fantasy roleplaying games.

So I confess I feel like if the DF authors were putting here a sort of "seriousness cap", almost officially banning any non-banal approach to this material. (Isn't enough to say the stuff is something like plug & play with little preparation by default?). I'm not comfortable with that, specially when other roleplaying genres and settings could deserve equally well a "silly" label . . . if it's needed to ridicule any of them, after all! (not sure I'm writing this latter phrase properly because grammar limitations)

Maybe b-dog "fault" here, in his "Gygax = serious D&D" argument, is attributing all to Gygax instead mentioning there were more persons working there, including some excellent artists, whom contributed to that seriousness with their artistic approach. I never saw D&D as the work of a single person.

Neither mine. But my vision of fantasy isn't coincident with Roma Arcana and has nothing to do with Banestorm. So GURPS Dungeon Fantasy appeals me even if I'm going to stumble with weird-funny things as Sexton’s Special Shovel and elven Technicolor hair.

OTOH and IMHO entire descriptions of every race (and such things) are more suited for campaigns settings, and you are always asking for that, officially. Maybe I prefer the loose version of Shadow (Drow) Elves in DF 3, because I always can add further detail to them (racial traits, advantages, disadvantages), even if that alters the game balance because the character point costs. However, I don't need the "funny" lines therein even if they're very amusing to read. To me, funny isn't equal to inspirational.

Anyhow, I can see lots of effort in all GURPS Dungeon Fantasy books, including DF 7: Clerics. Maybe behind such effort there's some unacknowledged serious love . . . ;^D

Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

We wouldn't be writing this stuff if we didn't enjoy it.

I'll point out yet again that DF is not supposed to be D&D. It's a take on a genre which includes D&D as a major component and original inspiration but also a batch of other RPGs like Runequest (notable for the inclusion of sentient ducks) and Tunnels and Trolls (notable for the silliest spell names ever; anybody else remember casting "Take That You Fiend"?) and computer games like World of Warcraft. Viewing just published works in the genre, there's a non-trivial amount of visible silliness, and it gets a lot more OTT when you look at the genre as actually played.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

Well, that's right but I spoke of D&D because I was following the line started by b-dog and followed by others.

I agree concerning the over the top silliness you're talking about, but still I always liked GURPS because it usually marks a notable difference regarding lots of mass products.

And I see silliness very related to mass products.

Still, since you're speaking of computer games like World of Warcraft (I loathe things like that), why not take a look to The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion or to the just released Dragon Age: Origins? I believe straightforward standard fantasy silliness isn't easy to find there. Youtube can be an excellent resource for researching about that in the case you're not investing your time in computer games.

Anyway I'm eagerly waiting for the next DF releases, including Treasure Tables. All them look very promising!

Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

Ok, didn't consider that. Indeed, the exercise of compiling alternate colleges is driving me mad since the beginning of the current campaign!

One thing I forgot to make clear while expounding on my bland criticism: I always prefer new game material related to the 'Campaigns' part of the game over those that relate to 'Characters'.
Now, the DF series already numbers 5 volumes about character building, so I'm a little fed up with this.

One final word about the unholy marriage between B-Dog and Gygax: you should rather check the Moldvay modules (Castle Amber, Silver Princess Palace etc.) for an unhealthy dosage of bizarre dungeon randomness!

Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

Thanks for the Tom Modvoy modules suggestion, I will have to check them out.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

Actually I strongly suspect that the Diablo series was a significant source of (at least Kromm's) inspiration.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

Well, he mentioned it in other threads.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

An incomplete list of important inspirations for me, in chronological order:

1979 to 1985 — Played and ran Tunnels and Trolls Fifth Edition.
1979 to 1986 — Played and ran AD&D First Edition, primarily in a couple of campaign worlds of my own design.
1986 to 1990 — Ran my first GURPS fantasy campaign, set on Yrth.
1987 to present — Played Rogue, NetHack, and other roguelikes.
1988 to 1992 — Played SSI's "Gold Box" AD&D games.
1990 to 1995 — Ran my second GURPS fantasy campaign, which was world-hopping.
1992 to 1993 — Played Bethesda's The Elder Scrolls: Arena.
1995 to 1996 — Played Interplay's Stonekeep.
1998 to 2002 — Played Bioware's Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 (AD&D-based).
2001 to present — Played Diablo II and its expansion, Lord of Destruction.
2002 to 2007 — Played Bioware's NWN and NWN 2 (D&D-based).
2002 to 2009 — Ran my third GURPS fantasy campaign, which was set entirely in a TL2/3 world of my creation.

As you can see, D&D titles, computer games, and my own campaign worlds were my main inspirations.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy 7: Attack of the Healbots
 

Why doesn't Kromm explain it instead? As a term that originated in an SJ Games RPG publication, he ought to be familiar with it.