[Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

...War!

I believe many here is familiar with Games Workshops Warhammer 40.000 miniature game and the two rpg's Dark heresy and Rogue Trader.

Though the systems does what they do fine enough, they do not give the grit and realism you feel through some of the fluff material.

So i want to use GURPS, but I'm very much a novice of the system.

I want to make a campaign based on the Siege of Vraks Triology (for those familiar with the three newest Imperial Armour books 5-6-7).

So I wanted to have some help to make stats for it, and this is a big undertaking, it everything from the krak grenade to Titans. Firstly among those already familiar with what I want statted. I do not think it will be as easy, just use stat A in book B as its almost the same - it has to match the fluff of it all and not just the type of technology its supposed to be.

The campaign idea is that each story is about new characters and a different take on the war. One story is about standard guard in the trenches of vraks, another is about the Stormtroopers trials to take an enemy bunker, another may be the High Command trying to get more reinforcements through political intrigue, another is about Dark Angel drop strike, and then another as the crew of a baneblade and so fort.

But from the first book that would be needed. Of peoples and equipment needing of stats.

----

Imperial Guardsmen from Krieg: They are hard and stubborn and expert siege soldiers.

Traitors: Former guardsmen and others from the divine campaign, gone traitors.

Space marine, loyalist and traitor: The Dark Angels and Alpha legion do make and appearance in the first part. And a story or two will be about being the dark angels.

Las Pistol and Las Rifle: Despite what some fanatics may think, the lasrifles can if lucky enough puncture Power Armour, but otherwise a good weapon based on firing solid beams of visible laser. They have power output settings to how strong the beam is.

Autoguns and Autopistols: They are about a mix of heavy pistols and a mix between AK-47 and M-16 for the rifles.

Frag and Krak grenades: The frag is probably just the same as a standard fragmentation grenade, but the krak is designed to take out light vehicles.

Heavy Stubber: Its a form of light machinegun, 50 kaliber in strength.

Bolt pistol and Bolter: They have tremendous force of impact (ammunition is a small rocket) and should not have to hard time of penetrating Power Armour.

Heavy bolter: Is the "light" machine gu version of the bolter, heavy as hell in force and firepower.

Stormbolter: Is like a twin Bolter that fires two bolts at the same round for enormous firepower.

Hellgun/Pistol: This is a overpowered lasgun, that is connected to a power pack on the back of the carrier. they may not have much more damage potential then a las gun but its penetration is great, and will not have much problem penetrating power armor (as of now in the WH40k miniature game they have AP3).

Flak Armor: It is the common guard armor. They have little protection value except against shrapnel.

Carapace Armor: This is the armor of veterans, stormtroopers and officers. its heavier then flak and can stop a deal of punishment.

Power Armor: The Space Marine armor of choice - increasing speed and strength of the already strong marines. they give extreme protection ageinst most weapons.

Tactical Dreadnought Armor (Terminator Armor): Even shaming the power armor in toughness. Only the most potent armor piercing weapons can penetrate this hulking suit.

Autocannon: Is a rapid firing light cannon, good against light vehicles.

Lascannon: A high powered anti armor weapon, only the most heavily armored vehicles can resist the piercing beam.

Those are the first things, but vehicles and other stuff needs statting as this thing builds it self up.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

For vehicles it would have to be:

Leman Russ Battletank (And options for different main turrets and side sponsons)

Sentinel

Centaur

Chimera

Hellhound

Earthshaker

Baneblade (with options for variants)

Stormsword (with options for variants).

Those are at least the most important ones atm.

Also Ogryn needs a stat (there are traitor ogryn berserkers).

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Humans should be regular characters.
Space Marines should be significantly better. (ST20, 13ish in all others?)

I would go ~TL10 tech with lots of missing technology. Basically they are too hidebound to invent or differ from doctrine.

Based mostly on description:

IG weapons:
Laspistol = Laser Pistol 3d(2) burn (Char p280)
Lasrifile = Laser Rifle 5d(2) burn (Char p280)

Marines:
Bolter = Gyroc Carbine w/HEMP 5dx2(5) imp inc + 1d cr ex (UT 145 & 155)
Bolt Pistol = Gyroc Pistol w/HEMP (same stats, fewer shots)

Special Weapons:
Flamer = TL9 Heavy Flamer 8d burn (weaker, but functional UT 127)
Hvy Flamer = TL9 Semi-Portable 6dx3 burn (UT127)
Plasma Gun = Hvy Plasma Gun 3dx5(2) burn ex (UT128)
Plasma Pistol = Hvy Plasma Pistol 10d(2) burn ex (UT128)
Heavy Plasma = Plasma Cannon 6dx25 (2) burn ex (UT128)
Missile Launcher = TML 6dx50 pi++ (UT145) + alt ammo.
Lascannon = Laser Cannon 6dx10 (2) burn (seems anemic, UT 116)
Heavy Bolter = Assault Cannon w/HEMP 6dx3(10) cr inc + linked 2d cr ex

EDIT:
IG Armor: TL10 Combat Hardsuit DR 75/45 (UT 180)
Marine Power Armor: TL10 Commando Battlesuit DR 105/75 +15 effective ST (UT 186)
Marine Termie Armor: TL10 Hvy Battlesuit DR 150/100 +20 ST (UT 186)

Note: Marines have a high basic ST & HT to compensate for (relatively) weak armor.

*Upgraded Flamer.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Looks good so far :)

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

In the last campaign prior to my current one, I found an Atlas series parahuman from GURPS Biotech (page 70 of the 4e edition; there is a 3e version as well, IIRC) worked as a good base for the player who wanted to play a space marine.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

All IG & Marines get superfine Vibroblades as default weapons for a +1d (5).

There really aren't any good power weapon equivalents. Force weapons will do too much damage for IG and little more than ST damage for an armored marine so I would use Monowire Switchblade +1d (10) for power weapons just to gain the armor penetration. Lightning claws would be a specialized Monowire weapon. Power Fists can be improvised as a +## (+30ish?) ST (10) punch.

Force Fields are TL11+ so we have to break the TL10 barrier a bit:
Iron Halo / Crosis field (4+ invuln) = TL12 Tactical Force Screen (DR150, UT191).
Refractor (5+ invuln) = TL12 Personal Screen (DR60, UT191).
Storm Shields = TL11 Force Shield Bracelet (DR100, DB3, UT192).

Hellguns/pistola sound like X-Ray lasers (bump armor divisor to /5).

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

40k grenades are usually combat buffs or anti-vehicle. I'm going to stat them like normal TL10 64mm grenades though:

Melta: TL10 Shaped Charge 6d(+6)x7 (10) cr inc + linked 8d cr ex [3d]
Krak: HEMP 6dx8(10) cr inc + linked 8d cr ex [3d] (UT155)
Frag: TL10 HE 8d(+8)x2 cr ex [3d]

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Here's some stuff I've done in the past:

Leman Russ Tank
It's not complete; but it's a start for you to work on.

HP: 205
Hull Front DR: 560
Hull Side DR : 170
Hull Rear DR: 130

125mm Battle Cannon
AP: 6dx25 pi++ (2)
HE: 6dx25 pi++ (2) follow-up 6dx4 cr ex [6d]

Weapons

Bolter Pistol: 3dx3 (3) pi++ follow-up 1d-1 cr ex; RoF 3; Acc 3; Shots 8
Boltgun: 6dx2 (3) pi++ follow-up 1d-1 cr ex; RoF 8*; Acc 6; Shots 24
Heavy Bolter: 6dx3 (3) pi++ follow-up 1d cr ex; RoF 10; Acc 7; Shots 60
Storm Bolter: 6dx2 (3) follow-up 1d-1 cr ex; RoF 16*; Acc 7; Shots 60-150

* Can fire single shots or bursts of 4 rounds

Boltgun Special Ammunition
Inferno Bolt: Adds Incendiary follow-up
Metal Storm Frag Shell: Airburst Fragmentation
Kraken Pattern Penetrator Round: Does 6dx4 (5) pi++

Autocannon
6dx6 (2) pi++ with a follow-up explosion

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Very - very nice :)

I look forward to get the Gurps books my self so I can start to tinker more.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I assume this is a wargame term, but a quick google search did not lead me to anything close to an answer... what is a "combat buff"?

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I'd up the Astartes Power Armour significantly, and reduce Flak Armour. Carapace needs to have a place in between those two.

Flak Armour: Sv5+ = Suck. Most weapons have AP5 at least anyway.
Carapace Armour: Sv4+ = Better, especially with fewer AP4 weapons.
Power Armour: Sv3+ = A LOT better, since VERY few weapons are AP3.
Remember that a Space Marine's Toughness 4 would be represented by high ST/HT, and not be mixed with his Armour when it comes to stats.
Terminator... well... ungodly good.


Unless you've read a lot of Astartes fluff/books, I'd avoid statting Astartes gear so far. Start out with the basic IG/traitor gear, and from there on, calculate Astartes gear.

But I'd be happy to help out with your project, I myself am considering creating a 40k one off adventure for a national con here in Denmark.
I've played 40k as Guards and Space Marines for ages, read a lot of fluffbooks, and have most of the IA books.
I'm relatively new to GURPS though. :)

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Well, I will follow the story elements in Imperial Armour 5 to 7, so in the beginning there will be no marines.

This whole campaign is made to be a filler for the weekends we do not play our other major campaigns.

And we always wanted to have a pure war rpg :-)

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Eldar most TL11ish:

Basically human stats w/

Lasblaster: TL11 Heavy X-Ray Laser Pistol 4d(5) burn, sur (UT117)
Scatter Laser: TL11 Semi-Portable X-Ray Laser 12d(5) burn, sur (UT117)
Starcannon: TL11 X-Ray Strike Laser 6dx5(5) burn, sur (UT117)
Bright Lance: TL11 X-Ray Laser Cannon 6dx10(5) burn, sur (UT117)

Fusion Gun: TL11 Heavy Fusion Gun 20d(2) burn ex (ST too high? UT128)

Shuriken Pistol: TL10 Gauss Shotgun Pistol w/HEMP 6dx2(5) imp inc + linked 1d+1 cr ex [1d] (UT142/155)
Shuriken Gun: TL10 Gauss CAW, 18.5mm 6dx2(5) imp inc + linked 1d+1 cr ex [1d] (UT142/155)
Shuriken Cannon:
TL10 Gauss HMG, 7mm 16d(3) pi (UT142)
TL10 Auto EMGL, 40mmG w/HEMP 6dx5(10) cr inc + linked 4d cr ex [2d]

Wraithcannon: TL11 Semi-Portable Graviton Beam 6d(∞) cr (UT129)
D-Cannon: TL11 Graviton Cannon 6dx5(∞) cr (UT129)

Missile Launcher (as IG/SM).

All Eldar should get Hyperdense blades (/5).
Howling Banshees should get Nanothorn Blades (UT 164 /10 divisor, corrosive dmg).
Witchblades can be Force Swords while Singing Spears are Force Glaives that you can throw like spears.

Eldar w/5+ sv should get TL10 Space Armor DR 75/45.
Eldar w/4+ sv should get TL11 Space Armor DR 100/60.
Eldar w/3+ sv should get TL12 Space Armor DR 150/90.
Howling Banshees should get TL11 Military Cybersuit DR 80 ST+10.
Striking Scorpions should get TL10 Heavy Battlesuit DR150/100 ST+20.

These are based on the effect more than the TL. Naturally there should be some drawbacks and bonuses associated with higher/lower TL. The TL10 stuff should be lighter (less move impact, doesn't matter for scorps) while the TL12 suits can be heavier.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

buff = bonus. It's more video game term. In the tabletop version Frag grenades negate the disadvantage of charging someone in cover. They don't have any other offensive impact.

As for the other stuff I put up here, it's pretty much randomly pulled from UltraTech to fit w/the type of weapon. The stats would have to be tweaked to make it closer to how 40k plays.

I would further clarify that anyone wearing combat dress has an open face helmet (more vulnerable to wide area weapons / head shots).

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Personally I'd probably do the armor like so:
Flak Armour - Nanoweave Tacsuit +TL10 light Clamshell
Carapace armour - Monocrys Tacsuit +TL10 heavy Clamshell
SM Scout Armour - Commando Battlesuit
SM Power Armour - Heavy Battlesuit
SM Artificer Armour - Heavy Battlesuit (High Quality) +50/50 DR
Terminator Armour - Dreadnought Battlesuit+ Tactical Force screen + Teleport projectors (Requires Beacon)

Also the Space Marine Geneseed, and implants would be added to the character template.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

It's easier to see the difference if you list the DR values.
Nanoweave Suit DR18/10 + TL10 Light Clamshell DR 45 (torso)
Monocrys Suit DR24/8 + TL10 Hvy Clamshell DR 60 (torso)

The nanoweave + clamshell does represent flak better. For the carapace I would go the TL Combat Hardsuit (DR 75/45) since that's closer to midway between what armors you've chosen for 5+ and 3+.

These sounds pretty good other than the Tactical Force Screen. Perhaps the Personal Force Field, but it's no where as good as the Storm Shield (which I think the Force Shield Braclet does a pretty good job of representing).

Agreed.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

All of this is in Ultratech book right?

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

AppleSauce!

I was looking at doing a 40K based campaign a while back since I wanted to work with a setting that was both original and familia to players. I tended to treat a lot of gear as lower TL on the assuption that low TL stuff would be easier to make in a higher TL. Guard armour was TL 8 body armour, I just used the Generic riffle from basic set of an auotgun. I found no trouble giving guardsmen basic swords and knives with no special monoblades or vibrobits, reserving those for officers and space marines which were by definition hardcore.

The big thing I found helped me was assuming that much of what you hear about Space marines is Imperial propaganda & myth making. No acid spit or concealed projectile finger nails. They were still really powerful (+6 ST & HT will do that to a person) but within the realm of the game mechanics.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Far too weakly armoured and armed for the setting ; the obsolete T-72 {real life Russian export tank that was destroyed in huge numbers during the 2 Gulf Wars} in High Tech on P.244 would have it for breakfast with those stats {which means the best modern tanks of today Such as the Abrams , Challanger 2 and Leopard 2 would utterly dominate it} which makes no sense given it is supposed to be far more powerful and advanced than the tanks of today .

I would say up the frontal armour to somewhere between D.R. 3,000 and D.R. 4,000 {or even as high as 5,000 , the latest tanks of today have around 1,500} , the sides to between D.R. 500 and D.R. 1,000 {the best modern tanks have up to 500 on the turret sides} , the rear between 250 and 500 and the top and belly between 125 and 250 .

Then upgrade that gun to match with the best A.P. ammunition giving 6 dice times [the frontal armour/50] (2) . If you're working from High Tech or Ultra Tech , concider it an improvement on APFSDSDU -High Tech p.169- , using something denser and more exotic for the penetrator and perhaps call it APFSDSEM -Exotic Matter- , that doubles the guns' basic damage and range and gives an armour divisor of 2 .
You could reverse engineer the stats of other rounds from there {Base it off the Russian Rapira tank cannon on p.140-141} though I'd multiply explosive damage by 2 to 4 times {better explosives} and increase accuracy and range {acc 5+5 , 1/2 D 5,000 Max 15,000 -10,000 and 30,000 with the APFSDSEM round} .

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

That's kinda like playing a game where Orks paint there vehicles blue, and are lousy close combat fighters...?

The Adeptus Astartes have acid spitting abilities, superhuman strength and endurance, multiple extra organs, etc etc... It's their fluff, it's in the books (both rulebooks and noncodex "fiction").
I'd be extremely disappointed if Space Marines sucked (proportionally) in a 40k game. But if your players are cool with it, go nuts!

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As for the reworked armour, I think it looks better now. Please do note the DR values so we don't need to look it up though. Makes for much faster C&C.

I'd go with TL9 Light Clamshell (Torso, DR30) for Flak Armour (Sv 5+). In VERY high tech worlds, perhaps add a flexible concealable bodysuit, like a Reflex Bodysuit. For the Krieg Regiment, the coats are more of a HAZMAT suit than armour, so I'd look into that instead.
Also, a TL9 or 10 Light Infantry Helmet (Skull, DR 18 or 24) would be appropriate for most regiments.

...for Carapace Armour (Sv 4+), I'd choose TL9 Combat Hardsuit (all 50/30) as previously suggested. It fits the fluff better, and represents the "plate" nature of the armour. Add an Infantry Combat Helmet, and you've got yourself full Stormtrooper Armour. A Light Infantry Helmet would be more appropriate for non-stormtroopers in Carapace.

Space Marine Armour seems good enough at TL10 Heavy Battlesuit (DR 150/100) and TL11 Dreadnought Battlesuit (DR 200/150).

Edit: Also, I'd make all 40k Armour Semi-Ablative. It fits the fluff, and it would explain how a lucky Lasgun shot could punch through Power Armour.

As for weapons, I'm pretty sure that most close combat weapons would be pretty standard. A knife or a bayonet would probably just be a regular knife or bayonet, without any hightech addition. The only way to penetrate armoured foes with it would be to strike unarmoured locations or chinks.

Chainblades could be represented by the Vibroblade upgrade, making a standard Chainsword the equivalent of a Vibroblade Broadsword: Sw+1+1d (3) cut or Thr+1 cr. That, assuming a ST12 soldier, is on average 10 points of damage. Even against Flak Armour, it only has a chance of penetrating and wounding, so repeated blows would be required. Or hitting chinks or unarmoured areas, which explains why a Chainsword counts as a CCW just like a knife or a bayonet. It's not overpoweringly much greater.

LasRifles might be harder though, because they ingame are Rapid Fire (one shot at long range, two shots at closer range, but can't assault in the same turn), but fluffwise, they often are full auto as well.
I guess we can represent that just like modern Assault Rifles - the military mostly teaches semiauto firing, but in case of emergency, the weapon can fire full auto.
I think it should be a TL9 Assault Laser. The weight/bulk seems appropriate, so does damage (on average 14 with a double armour penetrator, which makes it "on par" with the chainsword against Flak Armour - both being ST3 and AP-, I guess that's appropriate). RoF could be changed to 3 (semiauto) or even 10 (full auto) to represent the various patterns though. I'd also make it Reliable. Accuracy seems awfully high for a 40k infantry weapon though, but I guess it's appropriate.
LasPistols would be a TL10 Heavy Laser Pistol (same damage as TL9 Assault Laser), but with reduced RoF. I'd make it RoF 3 personally.

Edit: Just re-read the OP, and since he wanted Lasguns to be able to punch through Power Armour, I calculated those odds.
24 max damage, with a (2) armour divisor. Assuming anything but a torso/skull hit, it's resolved against DR 100 (thus reduced to 50). Even if targetting a chink (halving DR again to 25), he wouldn't be able to penetrate. That's why I'd make all armour Semi-Ablative. A guardsman doesn't stand a chance against a newly arrived Marine, but one with field repairs and damaged armour might get wounded by a LasRifle targetting a chink in the arm/leg/face and dealing max damage (critical hit or otherwise).

Also, someone might want to check up on the Magazine sizes of Imperial Laser Weapons... I remember reading everything from 20 to 200 shots... :D

Hellguns/Hellpistols/HotShot Laser Weapons, assuming they're all the same - need to punch through Power Armour. Same damage as their Las-counterparts, but much higher (AP) modifier, and probably alot lower shots-per-magazine count. I'd also remove the Reliable issue from Hellguns, due to their much more powerful shots (I remember reading that the maintenance required on Hellguns are one of the reasons they aren't issued en masse).

As for Bolters, I thought that a Gyroc with the HEMP would be a good idea, just like you guys have suggested, but when I did the math, a Gyroc HEMP round would punch through Power Armour most of the time.
15mm HEMP does 5dx2(5) imp inc + a linked effect.
That's on average 35 points of damage with a (5) armour divisor. Power Armour is 150/100, so only 30/20 against this.
Since Bolters are AP5, not 4 or 3, that's a bit too high IMHO. Of course, fluff-wise, I guess it's fitting...
Personally, I'd rule damage as 7d(5) pi+ inc + the linked effect (linked 1d cr ex [1d-1]). That's 24.5 points of average damage, with a max of 42. That's gonna rip through Flak with no problems, penetrate and kill/wound Carapace, but needs some luckier shots to go through Power Armour.
Of course, Pi+ damage means that once it's through, it'll deal a lot of damage! (And yes, there's a reason I changed from Imp to Pi+, read below)

A Heavy Bolter has ST5 and AP4, so it's 1 better than standard Bolters in both areas. I'd up damage to 8d or 4dx2, change Pi+ to Imp, and increase the linked damage to Linked 1d+1 cr ex [1d]. That way it has slightly better armour piercing capabilities, better explosion (and Heavy Bolters are small grenade launchers), and higher wounding (or killing? ;P) capabilities, still without penetrating Power Armour all the time.

Edit2: Reduced the HB's linked damage.

As such, both Bolters and Heavy Bolters can penetrate pretty much everything, but Power Armour is relatively safer.

Also, now that damage is covered, we need to look at the other stats of the Bolter. It has a standard sickle mag of 20-30 rounds (let us assume 20 for the "civilian"/military version, and 30 for the Astartes version). There are Drum and Straight mags available too (with 40-60 rounds and 12-20 rounds, respectively).
Fluffwise, it's very important to differentiate between the Astartes and the other versions, because the Astartes version requires superhuman strength to control the weight and recoil. Mechanics-wise, a good way to also represent this would be the larger mag size, better optics/sights, reliability, accuracy, etc...
We're assuming that logistic-wise, the ammo is compatible/the same.

So statting the "civilian" pattern first, I noticed that stats fit better for the Gyroc LSW than the Carbine, so I'm gonne use those, but with the 20round mag instead. Using the Gyroc Launch Pistol stats with twice the weight seems reasonable for the "civilian" Bolt Pistol.

For the Astartes Versions, I'm gonna use an Astartes supplement for Dark Heresy as a reference. It notes weight as 14kg, or 28 lb. for the Bolter and 5kg/10lb for the Pistol. Then, finding a weapon with a similar weight for comparison, ST requirement should probably be 13 or 14.
Since we're talking Astartes Quality, I'd give them +1 Accuracy and Reliable. Since they're bigger than the standard ones too, I'd make Bulk 1 worse.

That gives us Acc 3, Range 1.900, Weight 28 lb., RoF 10, Shots 30 (5), ST13(twohanded), Bulk -5, Rcl 1.

Calculating the Bolt Pistol from there would be pretty easy:
Acc 2, Range 1.900, Weight 10 lb., RoF 3/9 (Semi or 3round Burst), Shots 10 (3), ST13, Bulk -3, Rcl 1.

Stormbolters would be...
Acc 3, Range 1.900, Weight 50 lb., RoF 2 (minimum) to 20 (maximum) [cannot fire an odd number of shots!], Shots 2x30 (5 for each mag), ST16(twohanded), Bulk -4 (it's shorter than a regular Bolter, and intended for CQB), Rcl 1.


Edit: Forgot to add the Heavy Bolter stats (apart from damage)
Acc 3, Range 1.900, Weight 120 lb., RoF 10, Shots 50 (5), ST20M, Bulk -6, Rcl 2.


I'll post now, and start to work on the other guns.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I agree that the Hardsuit is probably a better midway point, but I figured that since it is a "sealed" armor, it didn't fit the feel very well.

See, this is where not having played 40k for a decade hindered my conversion. ;)
I totally forgot about the hammer and shield, and the lightning claw combinations. But I seem to think that all Terminator armor has a built in force field, regardless if they have the additional storm shield. Is that not the case?

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Noooooooo... The whole point of 40k is that their equipment ISN'T that much better than modern stuff. Of course, they have Plasma Weapons, Power Armour, Power Swords, Titans, etc... but these are RARE.
When it comes to the standard equipment, that's massproduced, it's not that great.
Now, I don't know nuthin' about vehicle stats, so I'm not gonna comment on those, but you have to keep in mind that a lot of 40k stuff really sucks, quality-wise.
There's usually always a downside to it too. It might be well-armoured, but then it's really slow. It might have a decent gun, but ammo is unstable, or takes up a lot of space, or it can't fire on the move, etc...

40k is not about "the best AP ammo" or "APFSDSEM". The standard round is HE, and that's it. Some regiments have access to AP, and they're lucky!
The mentality and equipment is much more WW2'ish than "superultraduperhightechninjaarmourpiercing".


---
(I'm not trying to be obnoxious, just trying to clarify some things)

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Carapace is more or less sealed and protected against that kinda stuff...


Yeah, all termies have a "weak" forcefield, on top of everything else. Balancewise, though, I'd rule that only one could be active - either Stormshield (Sv 3+) or Armour (Sv 5+), if both are worn. Another quirky 40k tech problem - stuff usually doesn't overlap. :D

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

The armor in 40k is very difficult to convert. The saving throw system doesn't translate well to Damage Resistance. After all, Tactical Dreadnaught Armor has an 83% chance to completely stop nearly any type of attack, then a force field that has a 33% chance to stop any attack.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

So, I've covered LasPistols, LasRifles, all portable Bolt Weapons, Flak, Carapace, Power Armour, Chainswords and CCW on page 2.

Lets look at the more primitive weapons requested by the OP.

Autoguns and Autopistols. The standard Autogun would probably simply be the TL9 Assault Carbine, while the standard Autopistol would be a TL9 Heavy Pistol IMO.
Characters or villains could probably get their hands on anything in the Pistol and SMG list (page 137) though, but the other stuff on those lists wouldn't exist, or be more specialised stuff covered later.

The Heavy Stubber could be represented by any standard .50 cal HMG, but let's just assume the one in Characters (B281). Perhaps reduce the weight a little bit, since there are characters carrying it and firing from the hip. 40k-wise, we should assume that it weighs around 75 lb + 25 lb. Tripod.
The UltraTech HMGs are way too powerful to represent a Heavy Stubber.

Autocannons, however, would be nicely covered by UltraTech weaponry. Assuming TL9 Assault Cannon (10d pi++), with Armour Piercing Hardcore Explosive rounds, this adds up to 10d pi++ (2) with Linked 1d cr ex [1d+1].
That's an average of 35 (2) damage plus some explosives and fragmentation. It'll cut easily through Carapace and below (it's AP4 after all), but it'll have a harder time chewing through Power Armour.
But comparing 10d (2) pi++ to the 8d (5) Imp Heavy Bolter, it's still not good enough. We want something dealing more damage than the Heavy Bolter, yet not a Marine killer yet. So let's add ETC to that equation, and we have 15d (2) pi++. That's an average of 52.5 (2) points of pi++ damage. That is starting to get dangerous for Marines, would completely destroy pretty much anything below that, and has a little bit of explosion factor.

Then, comparing it to the Heavy Bolter's Linked 2d cr ex [1d+1], the HB has better explosiveness, so I'm gonna have to reduce it. I'll edit it down to... lets say Linked 1d+1 cr ex [1d]. That gives the Autocannon slightly more fragmentation, but slightly less explosiveness - but a heck of a lot more damage potential.


Gotta run, I'll be back later. :)

Any C&C is appreciated.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Very nice work :), going to be hard to find whats feels best - look foreward to the interpretation of the Baneblade ;-)

I would say that its better to follow the novel for fluff then the sometimes strange rules mechanics of the game.

The Leman Russ has very heavy armour, but is also very big and easy target, with HE rounds as standard.

40k is like WWII but with some equipment that is very advanced.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

"40k is like WWII but with some equipment that is very advanced. "

Exactly! It's more like TL7+2+2 (Imperium) than TL10 or 11. And by +2+2 I mean that there's a lot of TL9 stuff (most military weapons and armour), and a little TL10-11 stuff (Astartes, Force Fields, Titans, etc...).

I'm gonna stay out of vehicle construction though. I'd love to help you guys out with it, but I don't know anything about it yet. I might have to read up on it to help out though. :)

So, how about a Lascannon now?

I'm thinking that a (Field-Jacketed) Semi-Portable X-Ray Laser (12d(5) Burn, Sur) with RoF1 and Shots 1(5). It's ST18M would allow it to be carried by a Devastator Marine.
With that damage, it'd punch through Power Armour, and even penetrate Terminator armour.

Edit: I'll try to roll out an Adeptus Astartes Template now.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Space Marine of the Adeptus Astartes - Template:

Implants & their related Advantage:
Secondary Heart: Hard to Kill 5 [10];
Ossmodula: Gigantism [0]
Biscopea: ST & HT increase. About ST+6 and HT +4 [100]? That's assuming that the soon-to-be-Marine already has pretty high ST & HT (around 12 at least).
Larraman's Organ & Haemastamen: Regeneration (Slow) [10]
Catalepsean Node: Less Sleep 4 [8]
Preomnor, Multi-lung, Oolitic Kidney: Resistant (+8 HT vs. All Metabolic Hazards) [15]
Omophagea: Mind Reading (only by ingesting) [15]
Occulobe: Night Vision 4 [4]
Lyman’s Ear: Acute Hearing 2 [2]
Sus-an Membrane: Metabolism Control 4 [20]
Melanochrome: Radiation Tolerance 5 [10]
Neuroglottis: Detect (Poisons, Vague) [3]
Mucranoid: Temperature Tolerance 5 (5xHT degrees extra comfort zone) [5]
Betcher’s Gland: Innate Attack (1d Corrosion, 1/2D 1m, Max 2m, RoF 1, Weakened without 1 min Preparation, Costs 1 Fatigue) [4]


Progenoids (Apothecaries will retrieve them upon death, but Traitor marines might want them too)
Black Carapace (Enables advanced life support, targeting, communication, and internal medic functions of Power Armour)

Other Advantages & Disadvantages:
Longevity [2], Reduced Comsumption 2 [4], Rank 2 [10], Patron (Battle Company, Fairly Often) [20]
&
Duty (Extremely Hazardous, All the Time) [-20], Sense of Duty (Chapter) [-10], Code of Honour (Soldier/Codex) [-10], Disciplines of Faith (Asceticism & Ritualism) [-20], Fanaticism (or Extreme Fanaticism) [-15], Intolerance (Xenos, Mutants, Chaos, Traitors, etc, etc...) [-10], Dead Broke [-25]

Skills:
Guns (Gyroc) (E) DX+2 [4], Soldier/TL10 (A) IQ+2 [8], Battlesuit/TL10 (A) DX+3 [12]


Total Template Cost: 176 points.

Cost of Heavy Battlesuit + Helmet, bought as Signature Gear = 9 pts.
Weapon would be issued by Patron, unless it's specific signature gear (such as... the Mastercrafted Powersword given by the now-dead Company Captain).


What do you think?

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I think that covers most of it when concering Space Marines :-)

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

At least, it represents the bare minimum. A fresh-faced Tactical Marine would probably have...

ST18, DX 12, IQ11, HT16
&
Guns (Gyroc) DX+4 (16), Soldier/TL10 IQ+3 (14), Brawling DX+3 (15)

A Veteran would probably have increased basic abilities, and have 2-5 points more in those skills, as well as numerous more specialized skills (Throwing, Tactics, etc...).

Oh, forgot about the Armour. A Marine would have Battlesuit/TL10, and it would probably be the skill with the highest modifier. I'll add that to my post above.

Edit: Also, looking at the Heavy Battlesuit, there's a few things that'd have to be removed to fit the fluff:
The Electromagnetic Armour thing.
Infrared Cloaking & Radar Stealth.
Basic Move +2 should also be removed. Astartes already have +1 Move from Gigantism, and they aren't particularly fast in the fluff, just endurant.

The Dreadnought Suit (Termie Armour) would need removal of:
The Electromagnetic Armour.
Infrared Cloaking & Radar Stealth.
Basic Move +3 & Super Jump 3.
Actually, fluffwise, Termies can't even run, so adding a Limitation: Can't Sprint would be appropriate.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

From a purely fluff side, I would imagine that the Space Marine requirements would be higher than 12's, as they are supposed to be the greatest warriors of their planet, hand picked by the chapter. that said, once you add the SM Template they are already pretty formidable, so they might be something that people would just handwave.

The template that I'm thinking about would be the Librarian/Grey Knight, or sanctioned Psykers. Of course I haven't read enough fiction about them to try to create templates for them.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Not terribly helpful for conversion, perhaps, but I wonder if it might be appropriate to describe settings like WH40K with TL X-Y. Perhaps 11-4, in the particular case. They have the trappings of a high tech level, but their civilization behaves more like TL 7. Sort of the opposite of TL 7+4, which has the capabilities of a TL 11 civilization based on technology that went off the rails at TL 7.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

@Ulzgoroth: Good point.

@Ego Archive: I'm not saying that 12 is the requirement. I'm just suggestion that 12 be the minimum. But you're right. 14 or more should probably be the minimum, but then again, we could balance it out by reducing the ST bonus to +6 instead of +8, "letting" the character "buy" his +2 ST as a "I'm top 100 of the planet" instead of "I'm a pumped up supersoldier".
So? Reduce ST & HT to +6 each?

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

If all SM's are going to start with 12+ anyway you should just build it into the trait. Personally I figure ST20 is a minimum since it doubles the amount of damage they can take, doubles healing, and halves stun.

My SMs would have stats like:
ST+10 (-10% SM+1, lowest for a marine most will have higher)
DX+2 (lowest against for an array of decent skills)
IQ+0 (They pick warriors not thinkers!)
HT+4 (They are really tough to kill.)

The Hard to Kill is unnecessary with a high HT.

Building the minimums into the template is a good idea otherwise you're going to need a SM candidate template.

Ok, though ST20 and a high HT are as good as Slow Regen already.

Don't they have Filter Lungs instead? Anyway a high basic HT protects against most things.

I had forgotten this. Mind Probe is better tho.

I might do something else for hearing. For just high basic senses you can give them a +1 Alertness.

Some of these seem high. Frex, TT5 with a HT12 will allow you to exceed your normal comfort zone by 60-degrees (that's -25F to 150F naked).

What's weakened do to it (1/2 damage)? Personally I would have gone with extra time.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

How's this look for a DKoK template?

Death Korps of Krieg Guardsman (60 points)

Attributes: ST 11 [10]; DX 11 [20]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 11 [10].

Secondary Characteristics: Damage 1d-1/1d+1; BL 24 lbs.; HP 11 [0]; Will 11 [5]; Per 10 [0]; FP 11 [0]; Basic Speed 5.5 [0]; Basic Move 5 [0].

Advantages: Military Rank 0 [0], Fit [5] and 20 points chosen from among Ambidexterity [5], Combat Reflexes [15], Fearlessness [2/level], High Pain Threshold [10], Resistant (Poison, +3 or Respiratory Poison, +8) [5] and Unfazeable [15].

Disadvantages: Duty (Extremely Hazardous, Almost all the time) [-20] and -20 points chosen from among Bloodlust [-10], Callous [-5], Fanaticism (Imperium of Man) [-15], No Sense of Humour [-10] or Workaholic [-5].

Primary Skills: Environment Suit (NBC Suit) (A) DX+1 [8]-12 and
Soldier (A) IQ+2 [8]-12.

Secondary Skills: Beam Weapons (Rifle) (E) DX+1 [2]-12 and Knife (E) DX+1 [4]-12.

Background Skills: Any four of Axe/Mace (A) DX [2]-11, Brawling (E) DX+1 [2]-12, Electronics Operation (Comm) (A) IQ [2]-10, Fast Draw (Knife or Grenade) (E) DX+1[2]-12, First Aid (E) IQ+1 [2]-11, Forward Observer (A) IQ [2]-10, Navigation (Land) (A) IQ [2]-10, Spear (A) DX [2]-11, Stealth (A) DX [2]-11 or Throwing (A) DX [2]-11.

Infantry (+6 points)
Hiking (A) HT+1 [4]-12 and one of Fast Draw (Ammunition) (E) DX+1 [2]-12, Guns (Grenade Launcher) (E) DX+1 [2]-12, Liquid Projector (Flamethrower) (E) DX+1 [2]-12 or Spear (A) DX [2]-11.

Grenadier (+38 points)
Add +1 DX [20] and either +1 ST [10] or +1 HT [10]; Throwing (A) DX [2]-12; one of Hiking (A) HT+1 [4]-12 or Running (A) HT+1 [4]-12 and any one of Armoury (Small Arms) (A) IQ [2]-10, Driving (Tracked) (A) DX [2]-12, Explosives (Demolitions) (A) IQ [2]-10, Guns (Grenade Launcher) (E) DX+1 [2]-13, Gunner (Machine Gun) (E) DX+1 [2]-13 or Liquid Projector (Flamethrower) (E) DX+1 [2]-13.

Heavy Weapon Crew (+20 points)
Add +1 ST [10]; Hiking (A) HT+1 [4]-12, Lifting (A) HT+1 [4]-12 and Gunner (Beams or Machine Gun) (E) DX+1 [2]-12.

Artillery Crew (+16 points)
Add Artillery (Cannon) (A) IQ+2 [8]-12, Gunner (Cannon) (E) DX+1 [2]-12, Lifting (A) HT+1 [4]-12 and one of Armoury (Heavy Weapons) (A) IQ [2]-10, Freight Handling (A) IQ [2]-10, Driving (Tracked) (A) DX [2]-11 or Hiking (A) HT [2]-11.

Vehicle Crew (+6 points)
Add one of Armoury (Heavy Weapons or Vehicular Armor) (A) IQ+1 [4]-11, Driving (Tracked) (A) DX+1 [4]-12 or Mechanic (Tracked Vehicle) (A) IQ+1 [4]-11; One of Freight Handling (A) IQ [2]-10, Gunner (Beams, Cannon or Machine Gun) (E) DX+1 [2]-12 or Liquid Projector (Flamethrower) (E) DX+1 [2]-12.

Death Rider (+17 points)
Add Beam Weapons (Pistol) (E) DX+1 [2]-12, the Mounted Shooting technique for Beam Weapons (Pistol) at Default+4 [5]-12, Broadsword (A) DX [2]-11, Lance (A) DX [2]-11, Riding (Krieg Steed) (A) DX+1 [4] and one of Animal Handling (Equines) (A) IQ [2]-10, Fast Draw (Sword or Pistol) (E) DX+1 [2]-12 or Observation (A) Per [2]-10.

Engineer (+40 points)
Add +1 IQ [20], Military Rank 1 [5], Guns (Shotgun) (E) DX+1 [2]-12, Engineer (Combat) (H) IQ [4]-11, Mathematics (Applied) (H) IQ-2 [1]-9 and any two of Camouflage (E) IQ+2 [4]-13, Driving (Tracked) (A) DX+1 [4]-12, Explosives (Demolition or EOD) (A) IQ+1 [4]-12, Hazardous Materials (Chemical) (A) IQ+1 [4]-12, Scrounging (E) Per+2 [4]-13 or Traps (A) IQ+1 [4]-12.

Senior Guardsman (+5 points)
Add Military Rank 1 [5].

Watchmaster / Ridemaster / Tank Commander (+34 points)
Add +1 IQ [20], Military Rank 2 [10] and any two of Beam Weapons (Pistol) (E) DX+1 [2]-12, Broadsword (A) DX [2]-11, Leadership (A) IQ [2]-11 or Tactics (H) IQ-1 [2]-10.

EDIT: Common quirks for Krieg Guardsmen include Wears chem-suit and rebreather mask even when not in battle, Dislikes speaking to non-Krieg and Even more obsessed with death, skulls, brooding on grim darkness, etc. than normal inhabitant of 41st millenium.

EDIT: Added a couple of skills. Changes marked in italics.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Here are a couple of older threads which might be of use:

This one has my attempt at a space marine template:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=48175

This one has various bits and pieces, mostly about weapons:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=9229

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Thats fantastic, Dkok templates all the way :)

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

@Naloth:
ST20 bare minimum and probably much higher?
Uhm... With Striking and Lifting ST +20 from the armour, that's gonna end up waaay too high. I think ST18 would work fine as the "average" ST, kinda like ST10 is human average. ST22 for a Marine would be exceptional for example.
I'm gonna have to read up on that ST20+ rule before I make any more comments.

Your other stats seem fine. IQ would probably be higher among some chapters and among senior officers, chaplains and librarians.

Why is Hard To Kill unnecessary? Assuming HT 14-16, it's very useful, especially when he reaches multiple minus HP.

Slow Regen is a must IMHO, simply due to its universal aspect among Space Marines.

Mind probe allows a single question to be answered, right? That's probably better, yea,

What do you suggest for hearing?

Temperature Tolerance is probably too high, yeah. I'm european, so I'm not used to F degrees. How much would you suggest?
Radiation Tolerance could be reduced to 2?

I made it weakened without preparation because I've read about it being
done instantly (mostly as an attack), but also being 'prepared' (mostly against objects).


@Perfect Organism: Great stuff! I'm gonna have to go through that SM template to scrounge up some ideas. The weapon list doesn't seem balanced against armour though.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

The difference between ST38 up to ST59 is +3 damage . The ST damage chart levels out to so damage isn't the biggest consideration here. The differences for ST20+ are in Characters under Injury in Stun. Basically having a multiple of 10 higher than 10 multiplies healing (so ST20 get 2 HP anywhere ST10 would get 1HP, ST30 gets 3, etc.) and divides shock (so ST20 halves shock, ST30 divides by 3).

Agreed. I was considering this more of a scout template.

Penalties for HT checks affect consciousness but not death. If you have HT14 and Very Fit (something I forgot to mention should be in the template) they will always pass death checks on anything but a 17+ (which is automatic failure anyway).

No problem. Just keep in mind Marines with ST20 will heal 2 HP every twelve hours in addition to normal healing.

IIRC (and it's dubious 'cause I haven't read the fluff for a long time) they can hear in the same range as a dog. Ultrahearing?

I'm not good with Rad Tolerance since I hardly use Rad rules.

For temperature tolerance 2 levels will allow them to survive (HT14) 11F (-12C) to 118F (48C).

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Okay, I read up on that ST20+ rule. You're right, ST20 seems fitting. I'd say that using the 10% increment, ST30 is probably the highest (or among highest), while 24-25 is the average for a well-rounded and "semi-experienced" Tac Marine.

Hard to Kill goes, I understand your point.

Won't they heal 2 HP every 24 hours instead of 1 HP every 24 hours (as standard)? On top of Slow Regen (which now heals 2 HP every 12 hours, right?).
As for "high" regen/healing, I think it's okay, because Marine regeneration is somewhere in between "regular" and "healing HP by the hour/minute/second". So actually healing 2-4 HP per 12 hours seems fine. That'll heal most "injuries" in a day or so, while "wounds" will take longer time. One thing I did notice in the Graham McNeill books was that the regeneration capabilities would "slow down considerably" when they were seriously wounded... I'm thinking that perhaps some sort of limitation to Regeneration like "Only while between 0 and max HP" ?

I don't remember anything that would be similar to Ultrahearing though?

Let's just say Rad Tolerance 2 (the armour has 5 in addition), which divides incoming radiation by 10 total. Assuming some skilled apothecaries if they get severely irradiated, and where good to go.

TT2 seems good, yeah.

---

Also, stealing from Perfect Organism's Template and ed_209a's ideas, I'd suggest we add:
Social Regard (Feared) 2 [10]
Alcohol Tolerance [1]
Religious Ritual (Chapter)
Brawling
Savoir-Faire (Military)

...and reading on Fanaticism, I'd suggest that Extreme Fanaticism might be the norm, with "regular" Fanaticism applying to more... mentally versatile Marines.

Edit: Also the idea of using a Perk to represent the Black Carapace's interface is a good idea IMO. I gotta read up on whether or not a Marine qualifies for DR (Black Carapace and Ossmodula). Any thoughts?

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Here's a few martial art styles:

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Here's an attempt at the personal armour used by the Krieg guardsmen.
[1]Split DR - use the higher value against attacks to the torso from the front, may be layered over flak-fabric breeches without penalty.
[2]Partial protection for the legs (1-3 on one dice).
[3]Partial protection for the arm (1-3 on one dice), may be layered over flak-fabric jacket or coat without penalty.
[4]Partial protection for the torso (1-4 on one dice) and vitals, may be layered over flak-fabric jacket or coat without penalty.
[5]May be layered over flak-fabric jacket or coat without penalty.
[6]Protects from the front only. Must be worn over rebreather mask and plasteel helmet, which gives no penalty for layering.
[7]Counts as brass knuckles, giving +1 punching damage. Half DR on the palm.
[8]Partial protection to the leg (4-6 on one dice), may be layered over flak-fabric breeches without penalty.
[9]Provides Filter Lungs, Protected Smell and Protected Vision.

Standard Krieg Guardsman: Flak-Fabric Breeches, Flak-Fabric Coat, Flak Fabric Gloves, Plasteel Shoulder Guards, Plasteel Helmet, Rebreather Mask, Reinforced Boots. 19.5 lbs.

Krieg Grenadier: Flak Fabric Breeches, Flak Fabric Coat, Plasteel Shoulder Guards, Plasteel Corselet, Plasteel Helmet, Plasteel Face-mask, Plasteel Gauntlets, Plasteel Greaves, Rebreather Mask, Reinforced Boots. 37 lbs.

Krieg Engineer: Flak Fabric Breeches, Flak Fabric Jacket, Plasteel Shoulder Guards, Plasteel Corselet, Plasteel Helmet, Plasteel Gauntlets, Plasteel Greaves, Rebreather Mask, Reinforced Boots. 33 lbs.

Death Riders and Officers: Flak-Fabric Breeches, Flak-Fabric Coat, Flak Fabric Gloves, Plasteel Shoulder Guards, Plasteeel Curiass, Plasteel Helmet, Rebreather Mask, Reinforced Boots. 27.5 lbs.

Vehicle Crew: Flak-Fabric Breeches, Flak-Fabric Jacket, Flak Fabric Gloves, Plasteel Shoulder Guards, Plasteel Helmet, Rebreather Mask, Reinforced Boots. 17.5 lbs.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Krieg Steed (70 points)

Attributes: ST 22 (Size, -10%; No Fine Manipulators, -40%) [60]; DX 10 [0]; IQ 3 [-140]; HT 12 [20].

Secondary Characteristics: Damage 2d/4d; BL 97 lbs.; HP 22 [0]; Will 12 [45]; Per 11 [40]; FP 12 [0]; Basic Speed 5.5 [0]; Basic Move 8 [15].

Advantages: Damage Resistance (Tough Skin, -40%) 5 [15]; Enhanced Move (Ground) 1 [20]; Fit [5]; Hard to Subdue 2 [4]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Hooves [3]; Peripheral Vision [15]; Resistant (Metabolic Hazards, +8) [15].

Disadvantages: Domestic Animal [-30]; Quadruped [-35].

Skills: Brawling (E) DX+2 [4]-12; Mount (A) DX+1 [4]-11.

Krieg Steed Mask: this provides DR 15 to the face and skull, Filter Lungs, Protected Taste/Smell and Protected Vision. 15 lbs.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

FYI I've been using the armour values that Games Workshop has printed in the "Imperial Armour" codex. And I don't think it's a good idea to compare fiction with real life things. As someone has stated here earlier; the WH40k universe is kinda "WWII-ish" and has a lot of equipment that isn't exactly "high tech". I just wanted to give my share.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Baneblade (Lucius Pattern)

ST/HP: 360
HT: 9 fx
Hnd/SR: -4/5
Speed: 15 mp/h (road)
SM: +5
Crew: 10 (Commander, Driver, 3 Gunners, 3 Loaders, Comms-Operator, Engineer)

Front Hull DR: 900
Side Hull DR: 840
Rear Hull DR: 560
Front Turret DR: 1260
Side Turret DR: 560
Rear Turret DR: 560

Mega Battle Cannon
AP: 6dx22 (2) pi++
HE: 6dx22 (0.5) pi++ with 6dx14 cr ex [7d]

Demolisher Cannon
HE: 6dx15 (0.5) pi++ with 6dx18 cr ex [8d]

Notes: Not sure if GW actually took armour slope into account, but I took the liberty to increase Hull Front DR by 50%; Turret Side DR by 50% and Turret Front DR by 100%. As for the weapons; I treated the Mega Battle Cannon as a long 140mm cannon and the Demolisher cannon as a short 150mm cannon. These are the unmodified damage stats and you may wish to tweak them using HT 4Ed. The Baneblade is also armed with a co-axially mounted Autocannon; hull mounted twin-linked Heavy Bolters; two twin-linked sponson mounted Heavy Bolters and two turret mounted Lascannons. I also tweaked HT up a bit.

And for those wondering why the cannon isn't shooting rocket propelled grenades:

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

This is bloody awesome :-D

I have not yet gotten my books, and thought i had to sit an tweak forever.
I love you guys ^^.

This is bloody awesome (repeat ^^)

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Hey; anything for your neighbour ;)

This is an awesome thread. It makes me wanna try taking a shot at playing a WH40k again.

Has anyone thought of making a sourcebook for this ? It would be an interesting task.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I might put a PDF together after a while.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I have been looking at this thread and last night and have been holding a copy of rogue trader in my sweaty mits for about a week now, with an idea of doing my own conversion and last night I started.

I won’t publish the stats that I have cooked up, as I don’t want to be infringing FFG’s copyright, but thought I would publish my notes.

I did not want to take stats directly from ultra tech, as I don’t feel they felt quite right. So I sat down with the stats published in the RT, and see what I could cobble together

Damage I cribbed from the UT, Hellguns I stated as hot shots, the rest I just took “what fitted best”. I did the same with range, bulk and recoil.

Wt and shots I took from the RT stats, just converted the wt into lbs.
Acc is the more problematic, I basically took the range stat out of RT, assumed this is the range that someone of skill 12 would hit with maximum aiming about 50% of the time.

Assuming that I just looked up the range in the linear measurement table in Gurps Basic. Looked at the modifier and knocked off four, this gave acc’s that felt about right.

For min Strength I just brushed off Gurps Vehicles. There is a nice little formula in there for working out min strengths and that seemed to work.

For Melee weapons, I would say that chains words are identical to Vibrobrades, they are just vibrating the blade in a different way, and you can use all the other blade options you can to vibroblades, so you have options from a crude ork Chain blade, to a fine space marine mono toothed weapon.

Power weapons are more problematic, likening them to any other weapon in UT just does not feel right, the way I have come around that is have the power field simply add 2D to damage and an armour divisor of (10), but the wound multiplier remains the same, this makes a power maul or thunder hammer feel different to a power sword or axe.

The other addition is a power fist also adds +3 to striking strength. This would reflect that the armoured sleeve has an element of an exoskeleton.
Not got to armour yet.

On other technologies, I think we are pitching the basic TL as too high. I would put the average imperial citizen at around a more Victorian TL5, and often lower they have access to higher tl’s but they don’t understand how it works, other than “the machine spirit moves it”, hive worlders and void born would be higher, and Adeptus mechanicus would be much much higher, But that would better model the mechanicus’ strangle hold on technology.

I have also been giving thought on how you would model cogitators. Given that I was thinking along the lines of TL5, I went to steam punk, I would say that you can have all the options of ultratech, but multiply all weights by about 2.5. I am thinking huge very advanced Babbage engines, though I think the -5 to complexity the mechanical computers in Gurps High Tech just does not feel right, making bigger machines gives me more of a feeling for things like Data looms, or suit case sized cogitators we see in the fluff.

The final thing I thought about was servitors, I split these into two types, the mind scrubbed zombies we see modelled, and the ones that are used as “brains in bottles” for robot bodies and automated machines.

For “zombie” servitors, I basically would work out what skills and mental advantages you would need and create that as a none or low volitional AI and then work out what computer would be needed to run it, and then go a size lower, as they are basically being run on a cyborg brain a la UT. Then just add cybernetics to suit.

For the computer like servitors, I would design them as Gestalt computers as in biotech, but this time with the -5 for being mechanical, this gives an average complexity of 4 which once again “feels” right. For special effects they could still be humans fused to a workstation manually performing tasks, imagine the descriptions we get in the fluff of void ship hulls.

Anyhoo, that’s where I am now, time to start on mecahnicus characters and maybe a few void ships built with Vehicles

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

A rough attempt to stat out the Krieg forces in the mass combat system.
I had to fudge a lot of the numbers and change most of the units' abilities, since 40k forces don't generally correspond to real world ones in a sane way.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Thats beautiful!!!!!!

Now we only needs the Vraks Renegades, Marines, chaos and the bunch and its all ready :)

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Some weapons

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Uhh, those stats seem wonky, mate. You have shotgun accuracy almost on par with laser weapon accuracy, and BETTER than Laspistol accuracy.

Also, your weapon stats aren't balanced against armour (except your extensive Flak table), so they're hard to comment on. They don't seem to balance out against eachother either.

Range is weird too. You'd suppose a Lasrifle would have better range than an assault rifle.

Your stats seem to fit more with the tabletop rules than fluff or other rpg system rules. But then again, if that's the way you want to go, please do.
I prefer fluffier stats, as they make better roleplay possible, IMO.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I set the las weapon accuracy and range roughly equal to equivalent projectile weapons, since 40k las weapons don't seem to be more accurate or long ranged than projectile weapons. The wargame, Inquisitor, Necromunda and Dark Heresy all have them fairly similar and I can't recall ever seeing a reference in the fiction to las weapons being significantly different to projectile weapons except in their reliability.

I honestly tried to fit exisitng 'fluff' as closely as possible - I've got the Siege of Vraks Vol. 1, Dark Heresy, The Imperial Munitorium Manual and the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer by my side for research. Unfortunately, a lot of this material contradicts the rest, so I had to pick and choose which seemed most reasonable to me.

The shotgun accuracy is based on the existing stats for shotguns in the Basic Set and High Tech.

I think the armour table I gave covers guard issue stuff fairly well - the vraksians shouldn't have anything better than the krieg on that front. I think PPoS's numbers for vehicle armour are in the right ballpark. That just leaves marine armour, which I'll make a stab at in a moment.

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Disciples of Xaphan are Fanatics, Ogryn Berserkers are Impetuous.

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For this thread I would say that the Siege of vraks has to first saying, and maybe gaunts Ghost as a number two-for what I'm looking for.

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Wooosh, I need my books now so all is ready to be planned for first session :D

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Here's an attempt at power armour...

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Based on my limited 40K tabletop and novel experience, I would advise putting the rulebooks back on the shelf, and concentrate on the universe's fluff.

In a galaxy of trillions of humans (and billions of Imperial Guard), there are probably less than 50 thousand Space Marines. They have the best training, best biomods and best equipment the Imperium can provide. They are considered barely ready after nearly a decade of grueling training. And the 40K rules tell us they are only 3 times as effective in battle as a IG conscript with a kevlar jacket and a laser rifle?

I think Space Marines would only be called in when the IG can't solve a problem by simply throwing more men at it. Just from the numbers, it makes sense to throw a battalion of IG at a target rather than call a single space marine.

I would make the Space Marines truly monstrous, and then never let the players see them up close. A tactical squad of Adeptus Astartes don't attack, they happen, like a tornado or earthquake.

Have the PCs survive a battle only because their sector was on the edges of the objective. One day their officers get jumpy and nervous for some reason. Several days later, they see a single landing craft come down in the distance. The next day, the battle is won. Grizzled senior NCOs are overheard whispering "Astartes" among themselves.

(Really, the entire IG garrison would probably be wiped out before the SMs arrived, but it is a RPG...)

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BTW, my take on 40k Space marines comes in at a tad over 500 points.

40K rookie Space Marines

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Imperial Armor 5-6-7 Siege of Vraks is what I'm gonna base the campaign on, a few of the stories will involve the players as Dark Angels and Red Scorpions chapters. (I do recommend them for die hard military fluff)

The SM as totally invincible is just propaganda, they are hard as hell, but most fluff supports that they will fall under heavy assaults from any force - thay are tactical assault teams that are best used for special missions where speed and tactics are being used.

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I've compiled some of Naloth and my stuff into a PDF. It's guns, power/chain weapons, and armour for now. Also, it's "simplified", by which I mean that it's supposed to be used with books like Ultratech/High Tech to define more specific items (for example, the weapons are totally "plain". You could add folding stocks, or cut down the barrels, add scopes, red dot sights, flashlights, etc... For example, the "standard" Hellgun/hotshot lasgun has sights and a flashlight, but I opted not to include those in the basic stats. You can always add, but it's harder to remove).

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U9Z3DLNH

Speaking of Hellguns, assuming we make the distinction between Hellgun and Hot Shot at the ammo feed (Hellgun = backpack feed, Hot Shot = overloaded magazine), how would you represent a backpack powerfeed?

Any comments/criticism is appreciated.

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A couple of vehicles.

I marked range as '??' because I couldn't find any source which described how far imperial vehicles can travel. I'll keep looking and if I can't find anything, I'll make it up.

EDIT: The Leman Russ sponsons are the two 'independent turrets' (t).

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I have some problems with the damage stats of the Bolter weapons and of the Autocannon. Remember that the Bolters has a caliber of approx. 20mm and the Heavy Bolter 25mm. AFAIK there are no official statements on the caliber of the Autocannon, but comparing it to the Heavy Bolter it would probably be somewhere between 30-40mm at least.

When I first started to stat Bolters in GURPS I naturally went with the gyroc idea first. But Bolters in WH40k are kind of a the bastard child of a conventional firearm and a gyroc. It fires rocket propelled explosive bullets but still has empty shell casings flying and a hefty recoil.

Don't get me wrong here; your take on the weapons are the best I've seen so far. But I think that the damage needs a bit of tweaking.

When I statted my Bolters I used Vehicles and this is what I came up with (follow up explosive damage has been added from HT 4Ed):

Standard Bolter, Caliber 20mm (.75)
6dx2 (3) pi++ (treated as a short weapon) with a follow-up 1d-1 cr ex [1d]

Standard Heavy Bolter, Caliber 25mm (1.0)
6dx3 (3) pi++ (treated as a short weapon) with a follow-up 1d cr ex [1d+1]

Anyway, this is just my take on the Bolters and I'm not saying that you should use these stats. But I do suggest to increase the Bolter, Heavy Bolter and Autocannon damage and changing the pi+ to pi++.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Given the spotty level of technology in the Imperium, I think it is likely that some Bolters are gyrocs, some are heavy bore assault rifles, and a few might even be electromag.

They are all collectively called Bolters because the Emperor says so, and that is good enough for the Chapters.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I just finished calculating all the pros and cons of your stats vs mine, and I must say... bravo! These are really balanced, both fluff and tabletop wise. A Bolter will kill pretty much anything that isn't Carapaced with no problem whatsoever, and will be able to penetrate Carapace. You'd have to implement Semi-Ablative on all armour to justify Bolter vs. Power Armour though.
Max damage is currently 72, with average at 42, which means it'll take 5-6 hits at the same location before the marine will take damage.
That's a lot. And in the Ultramarine novels, Bolters are able to penetrate Power Armour "pretty" often. Doesn't deal a lot of damage, but it sometimes does.
That's why I'm thinking that changing it to 5dx2(2) pi++ would be best, even if that makes it a Carapace killer.
Anyway, 5dx2(2) pi++ will have an average damage of 35, against Power Armour (now reduced to) 75/50, which makes it able to penetrate and injure the limbs or the damaged torso. Unfortunately, it means that Carapace will be completely vulnerable against it (35 vs. now 25/15 due to (2) ). Then again, a solution would be to up Carapace to 75/50 or something like that (making it 37.5/25 after the bolter's (2) divisor)?


Edit:

Also, my take on the Powerfist (inspired by/stolen from Naloth):

Powerfist; Thr(10) cr; Reach C; Parry -2U; Weight 50; ST20
The Power Fist itself has DR50, while the support brace has DR30 and covers the arm. It grants Arm ST+10 and Striking ST+15, with that arm only. Arm ST is added to the user's ST to determine if he/she has enough to wield it. The actual weight is only counted towards general encumbrance. The Power Fist becomes unready after an attack or a parry, unless the user has twice the required ST (40 in this case, although the Arm ST helps to offset this).

Astartes Powerfist; Thr(10) cr; Reach C; Parry -2U; Weight 120; ST 25
The Astartes Power Fist has DR100, and attaches to the Power Armour arm. It grants Striking ST+30 with that arm only. The Astartes Power Fist becomes unready after an attack or a parry, unless the user has twice the required ST (50 in this case).

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I'm afraid I haven't read any WH40K novels so I can't say much about that. It all comes down to the armour divisior and the DR of armour. IIRC I treated Space Marine armour as having DR 150 and the Bolters having an armour divisor of (3). My Bolter would do an average of 42 damage points which means that it normally wouldn't penetrate Space Marine armour.
Loading it up with "Kraken Pattern Penetrator Round" would increase divisior to (5); that would easily penetrate SM armour and injure the Marine.

I think that you are focusing on what is written in the novels and want to replicate that (damage vs. armour wise); and that is a good way to do it. You probably enjoyed the novels and want WH40K to play like that in GURPS. My vision of Bolters are as simple as "big freakin' guns firing 20mm rocket propelled explosive bullets"; and that's how I treat them in GURPS. I think you are on the right track; decide how powerful you want the Bolters to be and then decide how protective the armours should be.

I think that the Caparace armour should be able to give the wearer some protection against Bolters, but not much. A burst of Bolter bullets into the torso of an IG would probably be quite messy.

I think the best solution is to go by "feel" here. Go with what you think feel best for your games. The good thing about both GURPS and the WH40K universe is that you can do it just as you like to have it.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Armour Divisor 3 seems high, doesn't it? Especially with 6dx2 pi++ damage...
That's gonna rip through Carapace too, even if it's boosted to 75/50 instead of 50/30. I'd scale it down a bit to 5dx2(2) pi++ or 6dx2(2) pi++...
The latter would have it punch through Carapace all the time, so I'll probably stick with 5dx2(2) pi++. Vs. Flak (30), Carapace (75/50) and Power Armour (150/100), it seems like the best way to go - killing Flak-armoured foes as if they were mere guardsmen (oh, wait... they are!), being able to kill Carapace, but not all the time, and just being able to have a stab at a Power Armoured Marine.
35 average, 60 max, vs. 75/50, which'll mean that 16% of the time, it'll achieve penetration against a limb or the face. That means it'll take a burst or two to kill a marine with a bolter. Seems good to me? And it fits my (indeed) beloved novels and fluff.


Btw, are there any Quality-rules for Armour? I'm thinking that older Power Armour Marks might be better Quality, thus increasing their DR and functions?

Edit: I forgot to ask what "treated as a short weapon" meant?

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

I'm not sure. I can't recall seeing it, but I guess that quality should have an impact on armour as it has on other things.

I'm referring to the calculations I did in GURPS Vehicles.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Okay, thanks.

Here's an update on the file.
Includes the changes to Bolters, some additional weapons, Powerfist, Lightning Claws, Chainfists and Terminator Armour.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8ZM6BCEO

I'll look at the various Force Fields tomorrow, based on Naloth's ideas on page 1.

My first impression is to have them be 2nd line (armour takes damage first, and then the Force Field kicks in. That's how I can see it working to represent the Invulnerable save in 40k.
At least in armours like Termie Armour. Might not work for the gadget Force Field thingies.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

More vehicles:

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Vraksian Renegade Militiaman (9 points)

Attributes: ST 11 [10]; DX 10 [0]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 10 [0].

Secondary Characteristics: Damage 1d-1/1d+1; BL 24 lbs.; HP 11 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 10 [0]; Basic Speed 5 [0]; Basic Move 5 [0].

Advantages: 15 points chosen from among Ambidexterity [5], Combat Reflexes [15], Fearlessness [2/level], High Pain Threshold [10], Rapid Healing [5] or Resistant (Disease, +8 or Poison, +3) [5].

Disadvantages: -30 points chosen from among Appearance (Ugly) [-8], Bad Smell [-10], Bad Temper [-10], Bloodlust [-10], Bully [-10], Callous [-5], Delusion ('I am not a heretic') [-10], Disciplines of Faith (Ritualism) [-5], Sadism [-15], Unfit [-5], Unnatural Feature [-1] or Wounded [-5].

Primary Skills: Brawling (E) DX+2 [4]-12; One of Beam Weapons (Pistol or Rifle) (E) DX+1 [2]-11 or Guns (Pistol, Rifle or Shotgun) (E) DX+1 [2]-11.

Secondary Skills: One of Axe/Mace (A) DX [2]-10, Knife (E) DX+1 [2]-11, Spear (A) DX [2]-10 or Throwing (A) DX [2]-10; one of Artillery (Cannon) (A) IQ [2]-10, Camouflage (E) IQ+1 [2]-11, Driving (A) DX [2]-10, Fast Draw (Ammunition, Grenade, Knife, Pistol or Rifle) (E) DX+1 [2]-11, Gunner (Beams, Cannon, Machine Gun or Rockets) (E) DX+1 [2]-11, Guns (Grenade Launcher or LMG) (E) DX+1 [2]-11 or Liquid Projector (Flamethrower).

Background Skills: One of Area Knowledge (E) IQ+1 [2]-11, Armoury (Heavy Weapons, Small Arms or Vehiclular Armor) (A) IQ [2]-10, Explosives (Demolition or EOD) (A) IQ [2]-10, Hazardous Materials (Chemical) (A) IQ [2]-10 or Mechanic (Tracked Vehicles) (A) IQ [2]-10. One of Environment Suit (NBC Suit) (A) DX [2]-10, Lifting (A) HT [2]-10, Soldier (A) IQ [2]-10, Traps (A) IQ [2]-10 or Urban Survival (A) Per [2]-10.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

It's more like playing a game where the relative abilities of Space Marines and guardsmen are akin to how thye preform in the game rather than the fluff. The most 40K fluff I read the more outragious it becoes, but one of the things I really like about 40K is that everything is from the perspective of a brutal fasciest theocracy and the line between propaganda and reality is blurred.

In short I think it's very much in the theme of 40K's humour to have urban legends about the power of space marines passed around, about how they have 15 hearts, the abilty to regenerate their own head and a laser wang. To expand on the fluff Games Workshop once put out a Guardsman's handbook that advised if one found themselves in front of an ork with no weapons to wave their hands in front of it's face to confuse the beast enough to make a get away. The manual also praised the effectiveness of lasguns (which are ridiculed for being effective in game terms) indicating quite clearly that the fluff was a great exaduation of the setting's reality.

In this sense I would prefference the rules over the fluff in deciding how effective everything is. A single space marine would be more than a match for a squad of Guardsmen even with this mind.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

This thread is moving extremely well forward :-)

Next up on the list... and this is the big ones....

Warhound Titan (vehicle/walker)
Reaver Titan (vehicle/walker)
Chaos Defiler (vehicle/walker)
Khorne Berzerkers
Bloodgor Beastmen
Chaos Alpha Legion SM
Plaguemarine
Marine Sorcerer of Nurgle
Hell Talon (aircraft)
Dread Claw (aircraft)
Hell Blade (aircraft)
Thunderbolt Fighter (aircraft)
Lighnting (aircraft)
Khorne Blood Slaughterer (vehicle/deamon creature)
Nurgle Blight Drone (vehicle/skimmer)
Grey Knight Space Marine
Brass Scorpion of Khorne (vehicle/walker)
Gore Feaster Deamon Beast of Khorne (deamon)
Jibberjaw - Giant Plaguespawn of Nurgle (deamon)
Bloodthirster (deamon)
Great Unclean One (deamon)
Khorne Deamon Prince (deamon)
Nurgle Deamon prince (deamon)
Plague Zombies
Plague Ogryn
Plague Bearers (deamon)
Bloodletters (deamon)
Nurglings (deamon)

Many of those are only found in Imperial Armor (6-7) Siege of Vrak part two and three.
If you need to know the capabilities of them in the wargame, send me a PM - I'm not going to give complete stats but a working knowledge of what they can do).

With those outof the world my Siege of Vraks rpg Gurps campaign can start.

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Don't know if it'll fit your campaign, but here goes;

Space Marine Mk V Dreadnought (Mars Pattern)

ST/HP: 120
HT: 9 f
Hnd/SR: +2/4
Speed: 7 mp/h (road)
SM: +2
Crew: 1

Front Hull DR: 300
Side Hull DR: 300
Rear Hull DR: 300

Arm DR: 150
Leg DR: 200
Top DR: 300

Weapons
The Dreadnought can be equipped with a large variety of weapons. This model however is armed with an Assault Cannon (right arm) and a Powerfist (left arm).

Assault Cannon: 6d (2) pi, RoF 100, Rcl 2
Power Fist: 6dx2 (10) cr

Notes: It put it's arm strength at 50, which is quite enough to deal with most threats. The Assault Cannon fires high-penetrating bullets so I went with the (5) armour divisor. This can be lowered to (3) or (2) if it seems more appropriate.

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

How could I forget those, of course :)

Most vehicles for Space Marine (loyalist or traitors)

and for Imperial Guard up to Reaver is in the Siege of Vraks

Re: [Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...
 

Alright, think I have that book somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it out. Anyway, I would love to take a crack at the Hell Blade, Thunderbolt Fighter and the Lightning Fighter. I'll start working on them right away.

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Superb :)

Imperial Armor 5-6-7 is absolutely the best GW books I have read :).

I think a minor rpg campaign based on the Anphelion project (Imperial Armor 4) will be done after this one.

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When playing around with the Space Marine template, I always ended up with this for the zygotes:

(With regards to strength, if you're to believe Dark Heresy a Space Marine is going to have a base ST of about 31...)

To be honest, I've always come up short with the psykers which is why I've spent most of my time on them. They always end up having to be horrendously crunchy to replicate the feel of the game universe without having to be as stupendously simple as represented in games such as Inquisitor and Dark Heresy.

Kage