Force field questions
 

This is following up to a couple of earlier threads on this topic because I want to make sure I've got this right before I help a player with his character...

Option 1:

DR 10 (Force field, +20%) [60] is, for all practical purposes, super-skin. It provides a sheath of power that covers your skin, your eyes, the insides of your mouth when you're talking, etc. It's always on, but it somehow knows when it's supposed to let things like air and food through.

Am I getting this right?

Option 2:

DR 10 (Force field, +20%, Switchable, +10%, Area Effect, +50%, Nuisance Effect, "two-way fence," -5%) [88] is a more typical force field, the kind you might use with a spaceship or a superhero like Sue Storm. You can turn it on and off at will. In fact, you often have to turn it off because it tends to get in the way of things. It's a two-way fence. It's hard for you to reach stuff outside the field. It's like a wall surrounding you. You can wear armor. And if something is inside the field when you turn it on, you can manipulate it or pick it up. But if you move around, your force field moves with you, pushing things away, etc. Shooting through it is as hard for you as it is for people outside. And if something is so large and you couldn't normally move it with your ST, you can be blocked by it while your field is on if you can't get around it.

Does this sound right or is there another way to build this?

Option 3:

How would you handle a "sealed, but eventually you run out of air if you leave it on too long" limitation? Still just part of a nuisance effect (which is the simple way to do it) or something else?

Thanks.

Mark

Re: Force field questions
 

Not quite - it is not skinlike in that it also protects "everything you’re carrying or wearing (up to Extra-Heavy encumbrance)". Since it says "everything" rather than "objects" as the similar Can Carry Objects, this presumably could include other people.

Option 2 needs Affects Others or it will be limited to your Extra-Heavy Encumbrance. I'm not sure that the proposed nuisance effect is truly a limitation unless people are free to leave the field without having to overcome its DR, as that would make it a useful trap as well. For Option 3, I would recommend linking Sealed and Vacuum Support to Option 2 with the same modifiers except for the Nuisance Effect.

Re: Force field questions
 

Okay, so it somehow automatically extends itself to anything touching your body or held in your hands, up to a certain encumbrance level. That is both very playable (you don't have to remember what is protected and what isn't) and very silly...you grab Lois Lane and suddenly she's protected by your DR? Huh? What? :) Of course, it does prevent the "Man of steel...costume of Kleenex...Explosions = Cheap thrills for onlookers!" problem. :) In other words, the basic +20% force field represents Four Color physics.

I'm assuming the Nuisance Effect covers situations where the force field protects an area and doesn't keep you from picking up things inside the force field, etc. So you don't have Temporary Disadvantage: No Fine Manipulators. It is like being inside a fence. But once it is on, if you try to move around, it moves with you and is kind of like wearing a tent or a giant hoop skirt from the 1700s. It bumps into things! :) To avoid that, you have to turn it off and turn it back on when you've moved to a new position, which does leave you vulnerable.

If the field is "smart" and adapts itself to doorways, lets people in and out, lets you breathe, etc., then there is no Nuisance Effect. I figure -5% is reasonable for "things that really are a limitation or even a danger but are either not very serious or not very common."

Re: Force field questions
 

Why should you even be able to walk in a force field? You shouldn't be able to use any reaction drives, either. And aren't most force fields transparent (so you can see through them, use scanners, etc) and thus wouldn't block lasers?

These are bigger problems to me than having to have an air supply (solved by flickering it off for a second when you think it's safe) or not being able to manipulate things through the device (adaptive permeability is just pretty much required for cinematic force shields).

A two way fence should also protect against vacuum, temperature, high pressure, metabolic hazards, and so on. As it is, getting DR from a Force Field seems mostly like it is a force dampener than a literal bubble. eg any energy that is projected into the field is absorbed until it reaches a harmless amount of momentum/energy. Powers suggests that is a repelling field, either of which means that you won't have any problem breathing or grabbing anything though there might be some comical nuisance effects like, some featherweight tool jumping away every time you reach for it.

Re: Force field questions
 

Re: Force field questions
 

In other words, the basic Force Field, +20% modifier is meant to cover your typical Four Color hero, where the hero is simply able to soak up damage and (mostly because it is convention of the comic book genre) costumes, gear, etc. are protected as well while the hero is using them.

For Sue Storm (or someone like her...I'm sure her force field is a lot stronger than this example) perhaps the build should be...

DR 10 (Force field, +20%; Affects others, +50%; Area Effect, 2 Yards, +50%; Requires Concentrate, -15%) [143]. The ability is normally OFF, and requires a Concentrate maneuver to activate, and continued Concentration to maintain, but will protect everyone and everything within two yards of the person generating the force field for as long as the person maintains it.

I had missed a few points in Powers...you don't need Switchable when an ability has Requires Concentrate because that presumes the power is usually off and must be activated (even when it's a passive ability, see Powers p. 112).

Am I getting this right?

Mark

Re: Force field questions
 

Re: Force field questions
 

Of course, if that weren't the case, you'd have 1 level of Costs FP accidentally killing characters.

Re: Force field questions
 

I found this type of force field much too expensive especially at useful levels. DR seems to be priced for fantasy :)

Instead I used Innate Attack: Crushing w/Wall to build Sue Storm's powers. Since it also comes with a range it works much better.

Invisible Wall DR 90 HP 15 (IA-Crushing 30d, Area 5 = 16 hexes +200%, Hardened 4 +80%, No Obvious Effect +20%, Persistent +40%, Wall +60%, 1 Fatigue/Use -5%, Requires Constant Concentration -15%, Super -10%) [638]

My final version, though, used a house rule for SuperEffort on DR where bracing it requires 1 fatigue and only lasts while concentrating:
Force Field 14/500 (Affects Others +50%, Area 4 yds +100%, Force Field +20%, Hardened 5 +100%, Ranged +40%, Super-Effort* +400%, Super -10%) [560]

Re: Force field questions
 

Re: Force field questions
 

I think we're meant to assume that it has been built into the modifiers that do it. For example, if Requires Concentrate without also adding Switchable meant that you were always concentrating on that ability and could never do anything else - like eat, fight, read a book, sleep, etc. - it would surely be worth a lot more. If an Accessibility without also adding Switchable meant that you could never actually go anywhere where the power became unavailable, because it can't be switched off... you see what I mean.

Re: Force field questions
 

That it hasn't been built into those modifiers is apparent from the fact that they are worth the same whether they are applied to a trait which is already switchable or one that isn't. The argument made for Requires Concentrate could just as easily be used as justification for denying that modifier to non-switchable traits. My thought is that that is actually more fair than giving the non-switchable traits extra functionality for the same discount.

I'm getting a sense of deja-vu... Didn't we go over this before? Maybe in that ATR thread?

Re: Force field questions
 

That feels wrong... Costs 1/Fatigue use would end up being a net enhancement.

Re: Force field questions
 

Well, really, I'd argue that just means that Switchable by itself for certain traits, such as DR perhaps, should be +/-0% in the first place.

Re: Force field questions
 

In the case of Requires Concentrate or Requires Ready, the relevant text is this:

"Normally, only switchable advantages that would otherwise stay on without an active effort can have these limitations. A passive ability without definite activation conditions (e.g., Empathy) can also take them; if so, it requires the maneuver in question to use" (Powers, p. 112).

Further, under the discussion of what makes something Always On or Switchable, one of the criteria for an Always On ability is that it does NOT have "Active Defense, All-Out, Emergencies Only, Fickle, Reflexive, Requires Attribute Roll, Requires Concentrate or Ready, Switchable, Trigger, Unreliable, or Usually On" (Powers, p. 153).

This suggests that an ability with Requires Concentrate or Requires Ready CANNOT be Always On, and must be Switchable (or Transient) instead.

Interestingly, Costs Fatigue is NOT on the above list, but something like DR with Costs Fatigue might be built as DR 10 (Force field, +20%; Requires Ready, -10%, Costs Fatigue 2, -10%) [50]. The DR is NOT Always On; it requires a moment of preparation to turn it on, but then it stays on as long as you feed it FP...2 FP for the first minute and 1 FP thereafter.

I think this has to be how it works...it doesn't make sense otherwise, and it does appear to be covered in the RAW.

Mark

Re: Force field questions
 

Are you saying that if only Costs Fatigue was taken on the DR, the DR would remain Always On and the character would shortly die from FP and then HP loss?

Re: Force field questions
 

Another bit of text that might matter here is that one of the conditions for a Transient ability is if "one of its modifiers...specifies "uses" of finite duration" (Powers, p. 153).

In fact, perhaps the key to this discussion is that the abilities we're talking about are NOT Switchable...they're TRANSIENT.

Look at it this way...Switchable is an enhancement because have a tremendous amount of control over how long the ability stays on. Yes, if you're knocked out, it goes off. But normally, you can turn on the ability and even forget about it stays on as long as you like. But Requires Concentrate usually means you can only keep the ability on for a few seconds or a few minutes. Then it turns off whether you want it to or not. Same thing with Costs Fatigue. Each use (which costs a certain amount of FP) lasts one minute (or one second)--a use of finite duration. (Same thing for Requires Concentrate...each "use" has a finite duration of one second.)

So you would actually NOT build DR with Switchable...it shouldn't be Switchable because it's either always on OR normally off and only turned on for a little while (Active Defense, etc.).

I suppose we should get a ruling on this from Kromm or someone, though. And then it should go in the FAQ, since the issue does seem to keep popping up.

Mark

Re: Force field questions
 

We must have posted at the same time...I think the solution might be that any ability with Costs Fatigue CANNOT be Always On and must be either Switchable or Transient. If it is already switchable (like Alternate Form) then Costs Fatigue limits how long it stays Switchable. If it's a passive ability like DR, Costs Fatigue makes it a Transient ability because you can only keep it on for a while and then it shuts off automatically...if nothing else, you'll pass out and that shuts it off.

You don't have DR, Switchable, Active Defense...you just have DR, Active Defense. So I think DR, Costs Fatigue or DR, Requires Concentrate would work the same way.

Mark

Re: Force field questions
 

Fire up the old Way Back Machine, Sherman, and travel with me to the ancient times of 2007, when Kromm said:

One imagines that Enhancements and Limitations like "Active Defense, All-Out, Emergencies Only, Fickle, Reflexive, Requires Attribute Roll, Requires Concentrate or Ready, ... Trigger, Unreliable, or Usually On" would also do the trick.

Re: Force field questions
 

Thanks for posting this. I think it answers the question.

I think this should be added to the FAQ, since the question keeps coming up every once in a while.

Re: Force field questions
 

You're quite welcome. Btw, I found it by entering 'kromm "switchable' site:forums.sjgames.com' into Google, a trick someone else reminded me of on these very forums; if you're not using Google for your GURPS searches, consider adding it to your arsenal.

A fine point. Send a note to Molokh.

Re: Force field questions