Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

It gets the bonus to target chinks in armour because of its geometry.

Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

<shrug> Play balance. A swordsman will probably make (at least) 20 attacks in the time an archer uses to shoot 10 arrows and his sword enchantments don't wear off either.

The archer has to (at least) recover his arrows before he can use them in the next fight. Making the archer pay full price on his arrow enchantments would be ruinously expensive and basically legislate magic arrows out of existence.

Enchanted arrows are already a bad deal. Even assuming you get +1s done Q&D while melee weapons have to be done S&S doesn't really help. My groups always enchanted the bow and used Cornucopias.

This also short-circuited the D&Dism about not being able to re-use arrows. At least target arrows get re-used many, many times.

Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

This is very true. I have two anecdotes.


In my previous campaign – a high-points fantasy campaign entirely worthy of the description "fantasy action" – unarmed combat was rare. The PCs had favorite primary and secondary weapons, along with the social position to carry these even in the Emperor's presence, and so were rarely unarmed. When unarmed combat did happen, though, it blew past kicking range and punching range, and went right to the clinch, if not to the ground. This was because foes often had armor you'd be a fool to strike and weapons you'd want to restrain ASAP.

Thus, in that setting, stand-up striking was a sport, not an activity for warriors. Just about every PC knew Wrestling – even the people who lacked all of Boxing, Brawling, and Karate. Half the warriors, despite (or because of) being swordsmen, improved grappling techniques. Popular choices were Arm Lock, Choke Hold, Ground Fighting, Leg Grapple, Neck Snap, and Wrench (Limb).


In my (relatively) new campaign – a high-points modern espionage campaign entirely worth of the description "action heroes" – we've only run eight game sessions so far. Just two have featured combat.

During Session 6, all the combat prior to the gunplay was grappling: The traceur tackled two gunmen, pinned their arms to their sides, and smashed them into walls. Meanwhile, the group's social engineer used Judo to defend herself. During the shooting, the squad's weapons expert threw one punch; that was it for striking. Toward the end, it was back to grappling, with the team leader dragging an opponent across the seat of a truck by the arm in order to pin him with the vehicle's door.

During Session 8, a couple of strikes were thrown . . . one from behind, as a sucker punch, and the other to finish the same target after he had been borne to the ground. Once real combat started, it was gunplay from the outset. The only unarmed confrontation against an aware foe involved grappling the gun arm of a man with a pistol. There were eventually strikes, but only after the foe was restrained.

These outcomes are because modern body armor is rather good, and not a useful thing to punch ("Ow. Ceramics."), while firearms are so deadly that you must grab the arm ASAP. Striking has its uses, but those are "hitting people from behind" and "hitting people who have been grappled." Grappling is key.

—

In the balance, then, I would say that in an action game, a good investment in Wrestling – say, 8 points to get the +2 ST bonus – is as effective a "backup weapon" as you could ask for. For added fun, also learn Judo for the throw, and stick a few points in a technique like Arm Lock or Choke Hold.

And note that you can help allies this way. Use Judo to throw one foe at another. Restrain your rival and use pain compliance to march him between your friend and the guy attacking him. Grapple your opponent and your pal's, and smash their heads together. Do a quick sweep or takedown on your enemy, and while he's getting up, go assist your ally. Martial Arts has all the rules you need for this.

Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

That's a concept GURPS Magic has mostly been immune to.

Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

This is interesting. One thing I prefer with Striking over grappling is the fact that any blow to the Head/Face/Skull gives you a chance of knockdown and stunning. If you are able to pull off a major blow on top of that, it gives the opponent a crippling penalty to their HT rolls (-5 / -10). I'm no rules guru at all (I feel I'm still learning the system even though I played it for about 2 years) but I'm wondering if some of your players considered these advantages over grappling ?

Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

Two problems come up with striking:

1. Armor. In fantasy settings, paid-off guards, goons in the private armies of noblemen, bandit raiders, etc. wear helmets and at least hauberks or breastplates. Modern tactical operators wear vests, frequently with inserts, along with hard and sometimes visored helmets. Scoring a knockdown or knockout blow to the face, skull, or vitals is very difficult. The usual result is punching armor and hurting yourself more than you hurt your target.

2. Weapons. Most heavies have them. Low-tech thugs have axes, spears, and swords. High-tech ones have batons, bayonets, knives, machetes, and tonfas. If they parry your strike, you're through. They can parry a grapple, too, but here's the thing: You might need lots of strikes until you bash through armor and someone fails a HT roll. Each one means a chance to split a fist or a foot on a blade. But a grapple, once landed, allows follow-up moves that aren't subject to parries.

In high-tech settings, there's one further issue: guns. Whether you strike or grapple, a gunman gets lots of shots as you approach. As the saying goes, "Charge a pistol, flee from a knife." This is because given a pistol's range, you can't outrun it; the only chance you have is to get next to it and control it. And charging works far better when you can make a Sumo Wrestling-based slam or Wrestling-based Drop Kick (bigger damage bonus than Brawling), and/or know Judo and use it for Evade (which lets you get behind someone). That is, in GURPS, "grappling" includes gap-bridging.

I'm not saying, "Striking sucks!"; I'm saying, "Weapons do striking better!" If your objective is to strike, carry a backup weapon, even a little knife. It's simply interesting to note that grappling is almost a "weapon" of its own, in a way that striking isn't.

And of course there's the fact that grappling is a great way to get a backup weapon: Grapple somebody else and take his!

Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

On the contrary, going back to its' roots in the The Fantasy Trip the focus on balancing for arena-level combat has been quite strong. A wizard usually has just enough FP to kill one opponent and enough time to get his spell off if he starts casting when his enemy begins charging at him from the other side of the arena.

Balancing on broader levels is more difficult.

On the one shot arrow thing, you of course know that in D&D 3.5 magic arrows are only good for one use but the price break is 50 to 1 rather than just 10. In my experience people still enchant the bow rather than the arrows anyway (even if 50 arrows really might see them through a whole campaign).

Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

Due to this thread I wound up picking 3 hatchets and a Dwarven Axe as backup weapons, the former for throwing or when quickdraw is needed, and the latter for when have time to ready it

In DnD 50 arrows dont last an entire campaign, they likely wont last a single adventure, and sometimes may not last a single fight

A somewhat leveled DnD archer can match up nicely with a GURPS Heroic Archer since both fire at about 60rpm

But in DnD there exist spells like Greater Magic Weapon to cast on a pile of generic arrows to turn them magical at +X for Y hours

Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

That depends on the character. It's probably true for everyone who carries a long range weapon for specialized circumstances only.

Around 50 total might be just about how many arrows my last D&D(Pathfinder) Barbarian used between 1st and 16th level. After he got his Winged Boots there just wasn't much call and charging to use the greataxe was almost always a better option when it was possible..

Re: Fantasy Action Hero Backup Weapons
 

Ah, true, I was more thinking of my Order of the Bow Initiate, who at level 18 or so who periodically went through more than 50 arrows in a single fight

But I can only recall one instance where she actually used her sword (and had a +3 rapier at the time), before that she carried a masterwork short sword which I dont think she ever even drew