[Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

I've noticed a handful of powers that are actually multiple advantages apparently tied together into a single ability, but I see no sign of the Link modifier being used. The one that made me thing of it is Mind Clouding, under the Telepathy Sense and Defense section: it combines a form of Chameleon and Silence into a single power, but Link isn't present on either one (and based on the description, should be on both, arguably raising the total power to 7/level instead of 6). Was this done deliberately, or is it an oversight?

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

But there's nothing that says you can't have Chameleon and Silence on at the same time.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Link is not Alternative Attack. In a way, it's the opposite. It, in fact, expressly ALLOWS two advantages to be used simultaneously. The first level of it, worth +10%, in fact REQUIRES them to be used together (which is the level that would apply in this case, I think) as a single power. You make all rolls for the two advantages as a single roll, save damage (if any, and not applicable in this case), and in all ways treat them as a single ability. From the way Mind Clouding is described, that seems to be the case here, so it seems like it ought to be present on both of them.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

So it isn't necessary when the two advantages can already be used simultaneously

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

But the versions he's got in Psionic Powers each have the Requires Concentrate modifier on them. Even if the default advantages could be activated at the same time normally, these can't be without Link. At least, not without Compartmentalized Mind or something.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Sure they can. They just require two Concentrate maneuvers to get the whole thing going.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

You can't take a different concentrate maneuver to activate the other one because if you do, the first one is turned off. They've both got this modifier, so they can't be on at the same time UNLESS Link is in play.
(emphasis mine). You roll once to use both aspects of the power.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

I think Link Enhancement is not suitable for this case.
See (u)FAQ.
So, Requires Concentrate modifier (and so on) applies to only either Chameleon or Silence.
And apply Accessibility (Only while that main Advantage is active) to the one where Require Concentration was not applied to.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

But that would make one accessible without the other (while not vice versa), and the language of the power makes it pretty clear that these are meant to be used in conjunction every time--that they are NOT truly separate abilities at all, but a single one, built out of two advantages and combined. Therefore, Link seems to me to be the most appropriate way to accomplish that combination.

But even if you're right, the listed modifiers in the book do not include what you suggest, either.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

• Require Concentration is applied to both Chameleon and Silence
• (Without Link Enhancement)
• But can be used simultaneously

Umm.... I think it is unfair.
Even if whichever of Link and (u)FAQ-way is suitable, I agree with OP.
It should be ERRATA.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

I'd like to see RPK's comments on this.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Certainly. (I would have replied earlier, but I've been out of town for a bit.)

I agree that there's an error here. Requires Concentrate doesn't work when applied to both abilities. The simplest fix would be to replace the Requires Concentrate for (oh, let's say) Silence with the following:

First, Accessibility (Only when using Chameleon), worth -10%. However, that gives the option of using Chameleon without Silence, so add Nuisance Effect, Always On When Chameleon On (-5%). That achieves the proper effect. No change to point cost.

It may be too late for this to make the POD, but I'll submit it, unless anyone sees a problem with the correction.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Not a problem, I was actually getting worried something might be wrong, glad to know you are alright.

That works for me. There's at least one other instance of this that I found since posting last... and that is Astral Travel. How would you fix this one without changing the cost?

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Works for me as well. Though I'm curious if there is a particular reason why Link is not used? It seems from the description to be exactly what is called for in this sort of case. The Kromm example someone else cited earlier wasn't a very closely similar to this, in my opinion.

In light of your absence, you may have missed another thread asking a different possible-errata question I posted recently, regarding TK Bullet. Unlike this one, nobody else answered it, so it's drifted back several pages.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Fine -- just dealing with some family issues that required going out of state. It's got me behind on a lot of stuff.

Astral Travel doesn't have dual Require Concentrates. Don't see a problem with it. The only active part is the Insubstantiality. The Invisibility is "always on", but only works when you're on the Astral Plane, so there's no activation whatsoever required for it. When you're astral, you're invisible, and when you're not, you're not. It's like if you bought Invisibility (Only when underwater, -30%) [28]. You'd look perfectly normal on land, and when you jumped into a lake, you'd instantly disappear the second your head went under the surface.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Good to know you are ok. Sorry for adding more to your plate.

Ah, ok, didn't catch that difference. :)

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Umm... Is Always On When Main Advantage On (-5%) available for other case?

If I want an ability that costs FP or HP to use, but the ability consists of several Advantages, how do I calculate the cost?

Chose an Advantage that gets the best discount for FP/HP Cost Limitation. Now, add Accessibility (Only while that main Advantage is active) -10% and Always On When Main Advantage On (-5%) to all other Advantages in the ability?

I think Always On is not so disadvantageous for almost of Advantages.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Sure, I'd say it's fairly balanced against other Nuisance Effects. It should always be less than an equivalent Always On, of course, which means that it shouldn't be allowed for abilities which have absolutely no downsides (social, physical, or otherwise) to being left on continuously.

Add Costs FP/HP to the most expensive one, then use Accessibilitiy and/or Nuisance Effect (as I did) to get the appropriate mix of limitations on the others.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

Does it mean "Always On is disadvantageous for Silence"?
If I take Silence with Always On limitation, how much is it discount?

I think Always On is not so disadvantageous for Silence.
If Silence is On, what cannot the character do?

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

It would be worth -5% IMO. In the Shadowrun game I am playing in my character has a Reflex Trigger for Stealth and it makes it hard for him to not try to be stealthy. That is the nuisance effect of Always On for Silence as I see it.

This leads to surprising your (armed) buddies and freaking the mundanes. Sure it is a very minor disadvantage (unless your armed buddies have itchy trigger fingers, but that's their disadvantage!) but it is a disadvantage.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

-10%
It's not "what can't the character do", it's a social awkwardness. That's what the -10% level of Always On covers. It's the fact that people will react to you differently when they notice that your footsteps don't make noise, that your can of soda fizzes silently when you open it, that they can't hear you breathing, etc. It's worth a minor reaction penalty in some situations, but more importantly, it reveals that you're simply not a normal human being. It's just as inconveniencing as most -10-point Supernatural Features.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

I understood.
Thank you for detailed explanation, Rev. Pee Kitty and nerdvana.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Linked Abilities?
 

I was having some related conceptual problems with Silence a couple of years ago, and came up with an auditory equivalent to Invisibility, which I called Soundless. You might get some use from it, though it still needs a little work.