[Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

Increased Range (Line of Sight) enhancement (Psionic Powers, p. 20) allows an ability to target anything the user can see and costs +40% if the underlying advantage has a 100-yard range and +70% if 10-yard. Then, how much does Increased Range (LOS) cost in the following cases?

1. The case that the underlying advantage has a "range" of 1/2D 10 and Max 100 (like IA, Affliction, touch-only advantage with Ranged, etc.).
   
   
2. The case that the underlying advantage has no "range" per se, but suffers penalty according to the range between the user and the target (like Malediction).

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

Long-Ranged plus Sight-Based.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

1. The range is 100, so Line of Sight is a +40% enhancement.

2. Maledictions don't have range limits; they just take the appropriate penalties according to the level of Malediction and the distance from user to target. Use Sight-Based if your Malediction must affect people who can see you.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

This.

Though I'll add for case 2 that you can reduce or remove your penalties by adding Long-Range. The Increased Range enhancement is explicitly for abilities with a defined range, so no version of it (including the new IR(LOS)) would be appropriate.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

In another post, I had noticed that +40% on 100 yards and +70% on 10 yards looked like taking both out to 2,000 yards with a regular Increased Range and had theorized that RPK had determined that that distance was where the benefits of LOS balance the drawbacks. But this thread has made me notice that LOS doesn't affect 1/2D, so I was wrong.

"+40% for an ability that normally has a 100-yard range, or +70% for one with a 10-yard range." (emphasis mine). I guess "normally" means that you can't simply add "Increased Max, 10x, +15%; Increased Range, LOS, +40%" (whether or not the ability has a 1/2D distance) instead of +70%, right?

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

Thank you for the reply. What I wanted was the "the caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all" effect.

Burning Attack 2d (Increased Range, LOS, +40%) [14]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees the subject. The caster makes attack roll on Innate Attack (Gaze) skill and the subject can make active defense normally. DR works as usual.

Burning Attack 2d (Malediction 3, +200%; Long-Range 1, +50%; Vision-Based, -20%) [33]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees the subject. The caster makes activation roll on Will, resisted by the subject's Will. DR doesn't work.

Burning Attack 2d (Increased Range, LOS, +40%; Cosmic, Irresistible attack, +300%) [44]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees the subject. The caster makes attack roll on Innate Attack (Gaze) skill and the subject can make active defense normally. DR doesn't work.

These all make sense.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

Wee nit pick: With Reversed Vision-Based (therefore also with Increased Range (LOS)), if you're touching the target but can't see him (you're in an utterly dark room, he's invisible, you're blindfolded, or whatever), you can't affect him.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

You're quite right. Revised versions follow:

Burning Attack 2d (Malediction 3, +200%; Long-Range 1, +50%; Vision- or Touch-Based, Reversed, -15%) [34]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees or touches the subject. The caster makes activation roll on Will, resisted by the subject's Will. DR doesn't work.

Burning Attack 2d (Increased Range, LOS, +40%; Works Also as Touch-Based, +???%; Cosmic, Irresistible attack, +300%) [???]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees or touches the subject. The caster makes attack roll on Innate Attack (Gaze) skill and the subject can make active defense normally. DR doesn't work.

I'm unclear about how much should Touch-Based cost in conjunction with Increased Range (LOS).

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

IR:LOS incorporates Reversed Sense-Based, and has nothing else to do with using the ability by touch, so +5% seems eminently adequate. Same as you did with making Vision-Based, Reversed, into Vision- or Touch-Based, Reversed.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

If you went by straight distance, it'd actually be 10,000 yards, not 2,000. The simplest "ground up build" of Increased Range (LOS) would be Increased Range (10,000 yards), +60% or +90%; Vision-Based, Reversed, -20%.

It's not quite as simple as that combination, however. It's very much intended to be its own unique level of Increased Range.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

Does a LoS-ranged ability stop working past 10k yards if you can still see the target?

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

Of course not. Is there something in the text of the enhancement or anything I posted that implies otherwise? The text should be pretty straightforward -- if you can see the subject, using your normal vision (aided by lenses at the most), you can affect it.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

Well, I asked because you mentioned 10k, and I got wondering if it's a hidden limit you didn't think would be exceeded.

Also, regarding lenses: I suppose your playtest went through a big discussion, so, what is the exact definition of vision-based in terms of using stuff to help see better/further/behind corners? Where is the line after which it is considered that too 'indirect' vision is used?

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

Lenses and mirrors -- i.e., optics -- are okay. Nothing else. That seemed to be a pretty straightforward guiding star.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

The reason I had been thinking about that was trying to extend it to an area effect. If 10,000 yards is "equivalent" to line-of-sight, then it would take about 14 levels of Area Effect for a "anyone who sees you regardless of distance" or "everyone you can see regardless of distance" aura or emanation. I can't think of any stories that mention spotting a medusa from over five miles away, but it seemed like something to consider. Some abilities might let you resist by failing a Perception roll...

But the Line-of-Sight enhancement doesn't affect 1/2D, right? At least, that's how it reads to me.

Psionic Powers only uses LOS on non-attack abilities, where increasing range normally is +10% per level. But if you applied LOS to an attack (with or without a 1/2D, like Binding), increasing Max would only be +5% per level, so LOS would be "equivalent" to 10,000,000 yards for a "Max 10" attack or 1,000,000 yards for a "Max 100" attack.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

An interesting approach. That would make "Area Effect, LOS" somewhere between a +600% to +700% enhancement . . . that seems about right, at first glance, but I'd recommend some hefty playtesting to be sure.

It change the range on any ability to LOS or, if it matters, LOS/LOS. So yes, that affects 1/2D if used on Innate Attack.

Dude, you are so overthinking this. Increased Range, LOS changes your range to LOS. No more, no less. Yes, I used "five or six miles" as a rough equivalent to help determine an appropriate cost, since that's a generous horizon for most places on Earth, but that's a behind-the-scenes thing. As written, Increased Range, LOS, has absolutely no ties to any specific, measured range. That's the whole point. If it was tied to a range, you'd just use a normal level of Increased Range.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

Ah. Thanks for clarifying.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

I'd do "Everyone I can see" with Cone rather than AE - and Cone with the new ER:LOS enhancement would automatically get that LOS range, with the end width being where the expense comes in. Barring 360 Degree Vision, of course.

"Anyone who sees me" AE LOS... hmm. Tempting to try to reverse engineer Terror from Terror (Active), but I doubt many would accept +0% to turn a one-subject Malediction-equivalent into an Everyone-Who-Sees-Me AE Emanation (Edit: Oops, Aura). I keep wanting to include the SM of the character (or body part, or whatever hurled focus becomes the center) that someone must be able to see, and PER rolls if it's not in plain sight - dragons can be seen much farther than, say, a gorgon's face - but Terror would have the same effect, and doesn't adjust cost for that. I guess just massive AE plus Vision-Based, with Kromm's officially okayed use of Aura on Area Effects (if you don't need an attack maneuver to zap people looking at you) is the way to go.

Re: [Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"
 

I find the idea of making Line of Sight into an area effect something like a very ripe limburger :/ ;) ... Vision-Based should be the way to go here.