New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

Hi. I have spent a good deal of time playing the Star Wars RPG by West End Games, Dungeons & Dragons 3.0 and 3.5, and am considering starting a GURPs group with some friends.

I would really like to try the newest edition and have interest in a wild west setting. Is the 'Old West' supplement from the earlier editions at all compatible with 4e? How smoothly would it work?

Thanks

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

Most of the stuff in the Old West sourcebook concerns the setting. There isn't a lot of content as far as character skills/ads/disads, or equipment, that doesn't exist in the 4e core books and G:High Tech. So, get it for the setting information -- that's some good stuff -- and use the 4e rules-as-written for the crunch.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

As the previous poster said... the setting material stays the same, and the Old West setting was one of the bests in 3e.

For the Crunch, particualry Guns, you'll need a copy of 4e High Tech... but other than that you'll be fine, as the ads/disads/skills cross-over fairly easily.

If you're going to use shamanistic magic, then I suppose you'll need a 4e book for that bit 'o crunch. But since I never used it's magic rules and most people don't, (& IIRC they were pretty weak) it's probably a non-issue.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

I find it hard to believe that 3e and 4e gun stats differ so much that he must buy a $38 book he only needs a small part of rather than using someone's free conversion rules.

Additionally, he should be able to use the magic system in Old West (I presume 2e) without buying another GURPS book.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

Hey.

Congratulations!

This thread may help.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

Hmmm... you might be right, I was thinking of how 'particular' my old west players get about their historically accurate guns....

If running with conversion stats and calling it a Peacemaker, Navy, Dragoon isn't a problem, then I would say High-Tech 4e is Highly recommended rather than required.


Yeah... probably. Like I said, the original's magic is so "thin" that I doubt you'd need to update... if you're using it at all.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

Those more familiar with 4e should chime in, but as I see it:

Acc: Divide by two
Bulk: Probable converted from SS, no idea how
RoF: 4e probably as at least single-action revolver, double-action revolver, lever-action rifle and breech-loading rifle/shotgun to look at RoFs for, which covers the bulk of Old West firearms
Damage: Basic damage is probable similar and 4e should have enough example to add wounding modifiers


The ritual magic in OW 2e is probably self-contained enough you can run it with the rules from Lite ...

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

As one of the authors of HIGH-TECH Fourth Edition , I'd say you could easily play OLD WEST with just the BASIC SET -- but you would miss out on a lot of extra fun.

HIGH-TECH Fourth Edition contains considerably more information than just some gun stats (which aren't actually so easy to come up with as suggested by the ill-informed).

It contains rather longer, more detailed, and much more accurate descriptions and notes regarding typical OLD WEST firearms.
It includes a lot of new rules on their use, including how to fan or thumb a revolver, how to improve firing from horseback, how to "cross the border" if using two guns, how to repeat a Winchester single-handed (think Marshall "Rooster" Cogburn), etc. These all work quite differently in Fourth Edition than before, if they were even possible at all.
It includes a LOT of non-firearms-related information, including about food, clothing, medicine, explosives, and other stuff that surely will come up in any TL5 campaign set in the OLD WEST.
Finally, it includes a complete writeup with stat line of a stagecoach.

Cheers

HANS

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

Wow, sounds like it would be a really cool edition to an Old West game. My group likes a western setting, and sometimes grows tired of tentacles. GURPS Old West might be a fun thing to throw at them.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

My group has a higher-than-normal tolerance for realistic historical gaming with no monsters, superpowers, time travel, etc, and I'm a big fan of Deadwood and a few genre movies, so I've been kicking ideas for this one around for a while myself. I fall into the "GURPS Can Do Anything" crowd, but IMHO it would be especially good for this.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

Aces & Eights: Shattered Frontiers covers similar territory, though the official campaign is an alternative history.

Some of the minigames in that game, such as an abstract barroom brawling system, card game rules for in-character cheating, jury trial rules, cattle drives, prospecting and horse chases would be worth looking at for a GURPS Old West game.

GURPS Old West had a lot of details on the Old West and since it's a realistic western, the main changes are in the gear. That's true of most GURPS 3e worldbooks in GURPS 4e, though you have to tweak the templates a little to reflect the new costs.

Until Aces & Eights came out, GURPS Old West was the best setting for a realistic Old West available. Aces & Eights uses a ruleset that is different from GURPS, but isn't as good in character creation and ease of understanding; where Aces & Eights excels is the details on the microgames. The microgames would easily work in your Old West game.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

I'm actively running a GURPS western-style game (actually post-apocalyptic, so sort of half Old West and half Road Warrior), and it's going great. For the record, I was running it with just the basic set, but when High Tech came out I snapped it up in a heartbeat.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

If I have the basic set, would I be better off getting High Tech instead of buying Old West? I guess I would be fine without Old West if it's mostly for setting information.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

If you want setting information, get Old West. If you want copious game stats for guns and other gear, get High Tech.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

A few thoughts in no particular order...

If you are looking for some extras for your campaign, consider buying a copy of Whitewash City - a collection of PDF's one per building, that gives you the ability to print out a building, plus a floor plan for said building. Now, when I say "print out a building", what do I mean? The ability to print on stiff paper stock, a building that when you cut where you're supposed to cut, glue where you're supposed to glue, you have a 3D building. The stiffer the stock of paper, the more rugged the building. :)

Also, Aces and Eights is a good game book to pick up if you're serious about your Western Gaming. It has the rules (as mentioned by the other poster) for "Mini-games" depicting a trial as it progresses from start to finish, a cattle drive from what is needed to run it on down to how much those steers are worth, including all the fun stuff that can happen while on a cattle drive. It has a decent section on describing a horse and all its markings (colors etc), and as if that weren't enough, has a very decent selection of data on the period accurate prices for various goods and services. Aces & Eights is a must have in my opinion.

Then we have Foundry's figures. They have a rather impressive list of 25mm figures for just about any historical time period - including the old west. Best of all, you can get about 60 figures for about $125 - not bad eh?

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

Could just stick with third edition. Just a thought.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

The Aces & Eights demos run in 2004 at Origins and Gencon used the Whitewash City buildings (some were slightly modified) and miniatures from the Wargames Foundry (and other miniatures companies). After running demos there, I ended up using the Whitewash City maps in a short campaign a few years later; the PDFs work quite well just for mapping purposes.

If anyone has further questions on Aces & Eights, feel free to send me a PM.

As for GURPS Old West, it was one of the great western books and one that really just needs slight conversions of the tech to be updated to GURPS 4e. The bibliography is particularly useful in helping you find sources.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

I get the impression that the OP already has 4e basic.

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

Actually, it was the mini-game aspect that turned my off of A&E when I thumbed through it at the store. I hate that stuff in Final Fantasy, and I guess I just assumed I would hate it in an RPG. I dunno, I don't think I've ever played a game that had separate "mini-games."

My first thought is bleah though. *shrug*

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

How much do you want to guess, that if you challenged me to create a GURPS unified mechanism for either of the Horse chase sequence, the Cattle Drive sequence, or the Jury results sequence (aka mini-games), that I could do something that uses the general concepts given in Aces & Eights, but used the GURPS game engine to accomplish it?

That is the whole point of buying other game books and using them for use with GURPS. Sometimes, the other games have good ideas that can be shamelessly stolen for use with your own campaigns. ;)

Re: New to GURPS, is Old West compatible with 4e?
 

I've been writing up a "slasher"/serial killer adventure for a "Western" campaign, right now the stats are for 3e Boot Hill, though it would be easy to convert them, and Pmandreker has suggested I submit it to Pyramid or even e23 (most likely Pyramid since I've not done any writing for SJGames at all).

I'm also working up a "Western" campaign that I'm hoping to be abl to run soon, it's very cinematic with a touch of ancient conspiracy thrown in as well. Should be a fun time, So far, my sources are High tech, Basic Set, Martial Arts, SteamPunk and SteamTech, and am planning on converting the magic system from Old West 2e to 4e, likely using Thaumatology when I can afford it or the wife buys it for me for my Birthday in June