Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Hello! First of all, excuse my poor english ;) I'm going to run a Babylon 5 campaign using GURPS fourth edition rules, and I have some questions.

1) How to implement telepath's Psi-levels? Psi-level measures raw psionic power (P11 it's the maximum level attainable without training). Some abilities can be obtained only with a concrete level (for example, a telepath needs P9 for detecting electronic devices). A telepath can train to increase his psi-level, at risk of frying his brain.

I found a conversion of Moongose system: the Psi-levels translated into Telepathy Talent, but I don't like this very much. Why Telepathy Talent? There are other psionic talents. And I think this system has another problem: If I use only four talent levels (the maximum recommended), then it's very easy to become a P12 telepath (20 points). If I want high P-levels to be more expensive, then I must allow more talent levels: for example, a P12 is a telepath with Telepath Talent 12, which is insane: +12 bonus to telepath rolls!

Another solution it's to create a leveled Unusual Background, as high level telepaths are less common than low level. This Unusual Background would have 12 levels, at a cost of 5 points per level. But a friend of mine who uses to post in this forum (hello, Kuroshima!) thinks it's not a good idea, as Unusual Background must be used carefully.

So... any ideas about how to implement Psi-levels?

2) Second question: Any idea of the accelerations of Babylon 5 starships? I'm using 1G-3G for conventional starships, 3g-10g for military starships, 20g-50g for very advanced starships (technomage ship, White Star, Excalibur...), and 50g-100g for ancient races starships (First-Ones, Thirdspace Aliens, The Hand...). But maybe they are too slow... or maybe not. I suppose the decision will be easier when Starships 3 comes out.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Hey.

There's some discussion of ways to handle the Telepathy in this thread, but mostly species templates. I settled on standard Telepathy Talent 1-4 myself, I should warn you before you slog through it... IMHO: if you want it to cost more, charge more for it. The primary advantages of being a telepath in the setting are social anyway. Hope this helps.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Most telepaths in the B5verse only know Telepathy, and no other psi powers. I'd suggest requiring either a hefty UB for Psychokinesis, or require psychokinetics to pick Delusions or other disads to simulate insanity.

As to the rating, I think you're approaching the problem from the wrong direction.
Just make psis with the normal rules - 1-4 levels of Talent, and various abilities. Then, eyeball the result: how powerful is this psi? If the character has lots of points in abilities, high Talent and decent IQ and Will, then give him a high Psi Rating.
Since the only effect of Psi Rating is social, you might want to fold it into Rank: Psi Corps, so that a higher rank implies a higher rating. Even a psi with few abilities might have a huge rating, if he has a big potential! Seeing that a high rating can also be disadvantegous (the Corps is never going to let ou go), it could even be a Feature.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

1) Use 3rd ed Psionics? The 4e rules really are problematic in that things like range has to be handled by choosing appropriate limitations and some capabilities are entirely seperate powers and except for Innate attacks for mind-to-mind combat don't "level" very well.

In particular, levels of Telepathy Talent are almost irrelevant. Like any Talent it measures how well you can _use_ the attached power/skill/whatever compared to someone with the level of same controlling attribute but without Talent.

Telepathy Talents has nothing to do with what you're capable of, just how you modify the die roll to control it.

If you're determined to sue 4e rules you have to look at what a Teep of a certain level is supposed to be able to do and make a list of the Powers he's allowed to buy (and their limitations) at that level.

It's probably going to be a lot of work but that's the price you pay for ultimate flexibility. You _can_ build _anything_ from scratch but you _have to build _everything_ from scratch.

2) Accelerations are probably lower than you have in mind at least for pure Earthtech ships. Big Earth ships both military and civilian have rotating sections to simulate normal gravity. That means that don't use continual acceleration at all.

Instead they must be burning for a limited period of time and then coasting.

The StarFury fighter must be able to pull at least a few Gs (perhaps up to 9) for a limited period of time. The pilot of one is laid out flat along the plane of acceleration to better handle G-forces. I'd think they still must coast most of the time. I think we'd be looking at no more than minutes of full power.

If you were using Gurps Spaceships you'd pick hard science drives for Earth ships.

The Minbari do have reactionless thrusters, artificial gravity and acceleration compensation but I wouldn't put them much over 1 G constant or the Earth-Minbar war would have been even shorter and more one-sided than it was.

I can't think of any hard examples of speed from the show though so you can go with a mix of what looks right to you.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Thanks for replying!

That's interesting, and something similar was also suggested by Kuroshima. Maybe it will work.

I heard 3rd ed psionics were too powerful.

I've already made a list ;)

Of course. Earth's tech level is lower than other races'.

I will not use high accelerations for the moment ^_^

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Keep in mind that the *effect* of a high Psi Rating is purely social: it's useful to climb the Corps career ladder, nothing else. The cost of your actual psi abilities is solely depending on their effect. In other words, a "high rating" is shorthand for "lots of CPs in psi abilities" - it's a descriptor, not necessarily a mechanic.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Compared to what? If psi is the only source of special powers in the game it mostly doesn't matter. Most of the complaints were about Telekinesis anyway,

The nice thing was that there was a Telepathy power level that was conceptually close to B5's. It regulated both range of the powers, damage of the telepathic attacks and strength of the Mind Shield.

The Mind Shield part in particular was nice. The 4e power called Mind Shield is really only a limited bonus to Will. To match the effects of some settings you'd need to add in other stuff such as "DR v. Telepathic Attacks only" and maybe more.

Incidentally, in your last post many of the things attributed to Zorg were actually said by me.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Sorry, I had problems writing the post. Fixed!

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Regarding Psis:

Perhaps lining up Psi power with a levelled advantage is the wrong way to go about designing it. You may be better off deciding on a character's P level, and then just adding advantages and talents based off of what the P scale dictates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_Corps#The_P_scale

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Though a high Psi rating is a prerequisite for certain abilities.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

GURPS: Psionic Powers for 4th Edition should be coming out soon (or may already be out, I haven't been keeping track!), and will probably suit B5 psis perfectly. As others have noted, a high P-rating is mostly a social benefit; I'd judge it to be a Rank advantage, in fact, determining what the character's status within Psi-Corps is.

From a campaign standpoint, lots of points in Psi powers will grant you a high P-rating; someone with Psychic Illusions and Mind Blast will probably be a P11 or P12, where someone with Empathy and nothing else will probably be a P1. From a character creation standpoint, however, you simply require characters to buy a higher P-rating to go along with their more powerful psi abilities. It's not quite an unusual background - there are other concrete benefits to being a P11 - but there's nothing at all wrong with requiring some advantages in order to buy others.

I'd also note that, with two notable exceptions, it doesn't seem like B5-verse psis could do much in terms of training or practice to *increase* their abilities or add new ones; the Psi Corps taught a measure of control and skill (represented by greater skill at using the powers, or higher Talent), but it doesn't seem like there was much in the way of 'adding new abilities through training'. Your set of abilities determined your P-rating, and that was that. I'd generally not allow a B5 psi to buy new abilities without some significant story justification (frex, "the Vorlons rewired your brain").

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

No - certain abilities mean that you have a high rating.

The Psi Rating doesn't have a mechanical effect beyond social impressiveness. It's a shorthand for "How poweful are the characters abilities." imo.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Lainier Lainier, you've fallen to the pits of hell! you'll not leave this forum unchanged! (for those wondering, he's part of my gaming group, and we alternate GMing. Right now, he's preparing his Babylon 5 game while I GM supers).

As they have told you, make P-ratting be something that is derived from your psi powers (so it's more like I can do XXX so I'm P-YY than I'm P-YY so I can do XXX). Another option is structure psi powers in P-levels, for a structure like this:

P-ratting is a leveled advantage that costs 1/level.

P-5:

• Prerequisites: P-5 [5]
• Abilities: XXX, YYY, ZZZ,...

P-6

• Prerequisites: 10 points in P-5 abilities, P-6
• Abilities: WWW, UUU, VVV,...

P-7

• Prerequisites: 10 points in P-7 abilities, P-7
• Abilities: WWW, UUU, VVV,...

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

I agree with this. It is simply a rough estimate of what somebody is capable of and not a standard spell-list type of ranking.

If somebody developed a power early they would be a fascinating anomaly, but it is probably something that can happen.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

If you have both, you have both. It doesn't matter if the hen of the egg came first.

Though you cannot have certain powerful abilities without having a high P-rating, you can have a high P-rating without having those abilities. Or that's how I see it anyway. You're born with your P-rating, but you can learn new abilities.

Regarding new abilities, I would allow a player to learn new abilities available to his P-rating as if he had a talent.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Again barring the three notable exceptions - Talia Winters, Lyta Alexander, and Jason Ironheart - I don't see any example or mention of telepaths who gain new abilities as time goes on. From an in-character standpoint, you're tested for given abilities and you get assigned a P-rating based on the abilities you have. From a game-system standpoint, you buy abilities, and you buy the P-rating for those abilities, and that's that. You can increase your level of skill and control with those abilities (power talent, or skill at using powers), but a P5 can't develop Mind Probe (Invasive) and become a P8.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

I never said a P5 can become a P8, though as you said there are exceptions. What I said was that you are born with a certain P-rating, that doesn't change. But I don't think you have access to all your abilities when you are born, or whenever you manifest as a telepath.

Besides. if they have a talent, as you suggest, RAW says that they can gain new abilities based on that talent.

We don't see much about telepaths from other races, but we do know that Psi Corps trains telepaths extensively. Nothing I've seen of B5 states that you have to have all your abilities from the beginning.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Ivanova is an empath, and very mildly so at that. No amount of Psi-Corps training would ever make her any more than an empath, though she might become better at reading people with practice (Powers as Skills covers this nicely). The P-rating, as I'd seen it, is an indicator of potential - 'You are this powerful, you can learn to do these things'.

RAW says they can gain new abilities. However, if the GM says 'You're a P6, you can't buy Telecommunication (Telesend, Universal, Unlimited Range)' then you can't buy that any more than you could buy Burning Attack in a mundane game.

It's said frequently through the series that 'A P6 shouldn't be able to do X', or 'Only a P11 or higher can learn to do Y and Z'. This implies that a wide range of abilities are outside the reach of lower P-ratings, no matter how much they try to learn them.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

I'm not sure about that. In the pilot episode, Lyta said: "It takes years to train for a P5 classification and half of those who try burn out or end up vegetables." So maybe it's possible to increase P-rating, but at a risk.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

The real question for you as a GM, is how easy it is to increase psionic abilities and what the overall power distribution is.

While it's not specifically on psionics, pages 131-135 and 138 (power levels) of GURPS 4e Supers would be worth reading in light of your psionics in B5 GURPS. These pages cover how the superhero population is distributed, its growth rate, its rate that supers disappear at, super career length and how different power levels would matter. Making those determinations and doing some math lets you establish your psi population structure.

That way you're worrying less about the starting power level of PCs, who are exceptional people anyways and thus usually the ones who break the rules, and more about the general place of psionics in the setting.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

P-rating is actually the upper limit on the "power" portion of a Psi's ability. It should be purchased similiar to an Unusual Background (with the "unusualness" varying by race) that grants access to a higher max points in Teep "power". Characters with no P rating cannot buy Psi. Some people (First Ones, "Vorlon Touched" Psis), simply don't have this sort of a limit.

P-rating doesn't have any bearing on Teep Tallent, though it is often closely linked. A well trained and tallented P1 is a master with the slingshot. An untrained P10 is an incompetent with a cannon.

If I were modeling this using Powers, I would allow a character to spend up to half (since they should have some flexibility) of their MAX P-rating points on Psi, but bring that back in line with their starting point total using Uncontrollable and Unreliable. A new psi would be both Unreliable and Uncontrollable, representing the difference between power and skill.
Other abilities I would purchase using alternate abilities. However, I would require all alternate abilities would suffer from the same levels of Unreliable and Uncontrollable that remained on the base power.

In the B5-verse there seems to be a good bit of variance in the Psi of races, like the long range properties of some Centauri Psis (or maybe Psi pairings). It might be apropriate, if you're looking to be really fine grain, to exempt the Centauri from limits on range modifications when working with their pairing.

Also, you may wish to require a certain number of points in Mental Disads per P-rating for Human Psis. For most these will be things like Loyalty:Corps or various prejudices, but there's good evidence that says if someone's gonna be crazy, it's the Psi (or the guy the Psi was messing with). I'd double the number for Teeks. This is probably because the human psi pool hasn't had time to properly assimilate, and seems to have been somewhat a "rush project" for the Vorlon. Other races, with longer histories of psi don't seem to have as much of a problem this way.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

I have never disagreed with you on this. P-rating doesn't change. You can only learn abilities covered by your P-rating.

Lainier. As mentioned earlier in the thread and in the show itself, there are exceptions, but normally P-rating doesn't change.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

I'm thinking about running a B5 campaign. I have read the Psionic Powers book and it does not fit the model I want. I want the P level to represent the strength of the Psi's ability. A P12 Psi Cop will be at a serious advantage on a mind probe against a P3 commercial teep.

One idea I had is to have an advantage that was called Psi Strength that the player could buy levels in at 10 CP per level. This would go up to a maximum of 20 levels. They could also purchase up to 4 levels in the Psi Talent. Any rolls they made for their Psi abilities would use the total like a skill level. To get the P rating you would divide the total by two and round down. The talent is purchased at 5 points a level. I would make the player buy four levels of the advantage before they could purchase the levels in talent. I am planning on running a high CP game so I am not too concerned with the point cost.

This would give a P12 an effective 24 skill like ability that is extremely high. A P7 would have an effective 14 skill that would be pretty good. And a P3 would be quite weak with an effective 6 skill like ability.

I have not decided on the individual abilities yet.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

IIRC Minbari telepaths are part of the religious caste, there is a guild of telepaths in the Centauri Republic some of whom can communicate over interstellar distances (and wild precog ability is relatively common amongst Centauri) and the Narn telepaths were more or less culled out by the Shadows. I think that's about all we get canon...

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Wait, where is the guild part from? I don't remember that part. I do remember the wild Precogs (Own Death), though.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

I thought it was from early on (or maybe the horrible pilot movie) when they're disucssing G'kar's attempts to accquire telepaths for the Narn ... either that or during a discussion about PsiCorp's restrictions on telepaths, pointing out that every species has some form of control.

Centauri precogs also occasionally forsee other things as well - I seem to recall the Dowager Empress (?Turhan's widow?) had a prescient dream concerning Londo which resulted in her 'three chances' speech.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Yep, played by Majel Barrett. She predicted that Londo would become Emperor. She also predicted that Vir would become Emperor too. Great reaction shots from the actors there.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Many Centauri, including Londo, see their own deaths in a dream. While their seers, such as Turhan's widow, see much more.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Psi abilities are generally contests of will; one could call Will+Psi Talent-8 your P rating if you were so inclined.

Psi Corps training, as it is depicted in the Bester B5 books, would certainly books willpower. A P12 would then be someone with something like IQ-12, Will-16, Telepathy Talent IV.

Just an off-the-cuff thought.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Well, without some training by an experienced telepath, you can't even block out the surface thoughts of nearby people, causing something like Supersensitive. But Talia taught the telepath girl from Down Below to shield pretty quickly, so it seems a very simple thing to learn.



I would of course put strict limits on how much TK a human, at least, can have. Even with requirements for UB, mental disads, and high TP ability, the upper limit should be a lot lower than for telepathy.


Lower than the Minbari and Centauri, but not the Narns IMO. I have the impression that Narn tech is cobbled together from whatever they could steal from the Centauri during their revolt, and that they've only backwards-engineered something slightly less advanced than what humans have. They don't seem to have artificial gravity, for example.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

I was thinking about using Will but it is only 5 points per level to increase. Intelligence costs 20 to increase per point but I did not want to require the player to be super smart to be a Psi. I am planning on running a high CP game so I want the cost of a P12 to be quite high. This is what drove me to think about using an advantage as Psi strength.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

I think the B5 universe just has a very limited skill set for Psis ... it's not like the magic in drag psi that appears in so many RPG rules: most Psis seem to be some combination of telepath/empath with a bit of object-reading thrown in in some cases.
The only other Psi we see that I can remember is Centauri precognition and a bit of TK - no fancy stuff, force knives, flying or what have you.

Unless, of course, what Lorien does is Psionics...

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Earth bought weapons from the Narn during the Earth Minbari war. Perhaps they got those from the Centauri from the beginning, but they seem to be able to do it themselves now.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

IIRC (I think it was in one of the movies) the Narn were selling salvaged Centauri weaponry to the EA, both for the foreign exchange and in the hope that the Minbari would find it and blame the Centauri.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Yes, they were stolen Centauri weapons. The possibility of framing the Centauri amused G'Kar. Also, Earth wasn't necessarily buying arms just because they were of a different technology. They probably were just running short, and having trouble keeping up with the demand.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

The Centauri were higher tech than Earth before the start of the B5 series though. For example, the Centauri Primus class battle cruiser had artificial gravity and propulsion 200 years before Earth built the Warlock class with the same feature.

That superiority no doubt evaporated rapidly as the series went on but Centauri tech appears to have stagnated for 200 years.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Did humans ever get artificial gravity without rotation? Maybe they did on Excalibur and it's twin (which were built with alien help) but not on their regular ships and stations.

I think the Centauri gave humans jump drives, though.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

http://www.b5tech.com/earthalliance/...k/warlock.html

...says the Warlock class was built for artificial gravity and it certainly doesn't have any obvious rotating sections.

Of course, it was a late development built with some alien technology. However, this was Dilgar and Centauri tech. The Excalibers were built with even more advanced Minbari and Vorlon tech.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Somehow I totally forgot about those... I still don't remember them.

I remember some weird Shadow-tech-hybrid destroyers that Earth built towards the end of the civil war, though.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

The warlocks don't appear in the series IIRC, although I think Ivanova got appointed to command one when she transferred off B5 - don't recall if they said as much on screen though.
The Excalibur class were from the abortive spin-off series Crusade.

The Shadow hybrid destroyers were something else - Epsilon model of the Omega class I think...

And as for the EA buying Centauri jump engines ... I think that's mentioned in "In the beginning".

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

That's what Wikipedia says.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Heh. Must be true then.

Re: Babylon 5 campaign: some questions
 

Heh indeed, but this is within the limited boundaries of simple facts where I think Wikipedia will usually be close enough for Government work.

Now if Wikipedia did something like offer an opinion of whether or not the Enterprise 1701 would defeat an Imperial Star Destroyer (much less an Earthforce Warlock class) I wouldn't even bother to read it to see what it was.

If anyone does want to start killing electrons over that one the Warlock is the biggest ship of the three. :)