Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

http://westmarchsaga.wikia.com/wiki/...uded_Valley/15

This was a short session, and the final session of the campaign. We're not going to stop playing, but we are going to restart with new characters in a better developed campaign world in a few weeks. The current characters have gotten too powerful and we're looking to get back to something reasonable.

There isn't a lot to say about this session. The monsters were down to 2 bosses, both badly wounded and in poor positions, against 2 nearly unwounded delvers and a raging minotaur berserker of doom! Clever movement on the delvers part preventing the monsters from doing much, and then the monsters died. The berserker chased one of his allies around for a while, but a determined Scout can avoid melee attacks for a few rounds, especially if he has Luck. Then the wizard cast Daze on the berserker.

We weren't quite sure if a Daze would stop a berserker, but nothing in the Berserk disadvantage implied that it wouldn't.

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

Good luck.

So, the characters have gotten too powerful in about 50 game sessions (although you didn't give CPs at the end of each game session but for each successful delve), starting more or less from 250 points character values.

In your campaign, do you find this result as due to the ("high") 250 cp starting point? Do you have in mind some way to prevent the characters from growing too powerful and reproducing thus the same current situation in about the same number of dungeon delves?

... maybe starting the characters from 150 points? (not really serious here in this last question, but interested in the subject)

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

Congratulations to the players.

No, I'm not sarcastic.

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

The biggest difficulty was the rise in skill levels, coupled with extremely high quality gear. At the end, Berkun had Bow-20 and was using a Balanced Composite Bow with with Weapon Bond and Accuracy +1 and Armor-Piercing (AD2) enchantments, plus cornucopia quivers of impaling, piercing, and cutting arrows. He had an effective skill of 21 when he did a Move and Attack, or 25 on a straight attack. Magic in general was a problem.

A lot of the fault was the GMs, for handing out all these magical items. I also structured some adventures poorly, so the PCs were fighting relatively weak opposition. They also didn't have enough non-combat challenges, so it was easy and safe to throw all their earned CP into a few combat skills.

The new campaign involves a lot more exploring, so hopefully secondary skills will be much more important. There will be fewer magic items, and magic items can't be purchased. Patches of low and no-mana areas will be more prevalent, limiting wizards and making it more difficult for non-wizards to get reliably buffed by wizards. I hope to use a lot more non-humanoid foes, though we're also changing some rules to make animal attackers more viable.

I think reducing the characters to 150 points - while it would certainly reduce the power creep - would also make the characters nearly unplayable. Playing a "knight" with ST13, DX12, HT12, Shield-14 and Broadsword-14 is not really all that much fun in my experience. You're not that much better than a ST11, DX10, HT10, Axe-12 Shield-12 goblin or orc.

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

Interesting answer, Mark. I agree diversifying challenges and handling powerful items more scarcely can work -for mentioning only a few of the before mentioned ideas.

Please, keep updating the Westmarch Saga Wiki.

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

New game session 0:
http://westmarchsaga.wikia.com/wiki/WM/Treks/Log_0-0

We've restarted the campaign with a lot more exploration and all new characters. This was just a short combat test session to give everyone a chance to see if there were any problems with their character builds.

No one had problems, though Harald noted that Marik is fairly weak on defense and needs to either be rebuilt or stay the heck away from his enemies.

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

If PCs are loaded to the hilt with magic weapons they will attract thieves. These guys may pose as guides, traveling merchants, people at taverns and may also work in concert with brawlers who distract the PCs with violence while the thieves sneak up from behind, pilfering their magic item stash. Thieves can also shadow the PCs when they enter the dungeon as they are too cowardly to venture into the dungeon by themselves but will do so if the PCs are doing the hard part of dungeon clearing. The thieves could wait until the PCs are weakened and then strike from behind. Thieves could also join the party as men at arms or even fellow adventurers.

As far as non combat skills in DF, towns become more important. Also faeries are very useful. Maybe some faerie elves want to challenge their mortal elf counterparts to an archery contest or to a drinking contest. Or maybe they need help finding one of their faerie horses and if the PCs help track it down then they may have some information on some clue to the dungeon. Faeries are really perfect for these kinds of encounters because they like to give omens of the future or give hints at solving puzzles (or they may also like to confound the PCs too) Faerie hags and crones can give clues or prophesies too. Little folk can be nuissances or even side adventures.

Here is an idea, the PCs see a black wolf in a rocky ravine. The black wolf is trying to jump out but can't quite make it. If the PCs do nothing then the black wolf will eventually free itself then stare at the PCs and then run off into the forest. If the PCs prevent the black wolf from escaping they will need to kill it and once the black wolf is killed then it will vanish. This could be a faerie allegory where there is a demon or Elder Thing bound into the dungeon and if the black wolf gets free then maybe one of the bindings keeping the demon bound is broken, possibly by the magic fading or maybe another adventuring party has broken a binding. If the PCs defeat the black wolf then the demon keeps all of his bindings and has less power in the dungeon. So in this way the faeries can allow the PCs to alter their future by their actions.

Other ideas include dead animals found on the path to the dungeon. How they are killed can give insight into the nature of the dungeon. By using a religious ritual, or faerie lore or even a divination spell. Faeries are some of the best ways to have non combat skill use on the way to the dungeon becase they are not really a part of the mortal world but they have access to the secrets of it, especially the dungeons where they learn about what is inside of them. Faeries really don't care or interfere with what goes on in the dungeon either, they are just spectators who enjoy seeing what happens and if they like the party them they will give some help, if they don't they will not help and if they are malicious they will lie so as to harm the party.

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

I might have missed it, but I didn't see the quick character intros for the new characters: e.g.,

Firefly (Emily/Bruno): Pixie - Wizard
Marik (Harold): ? - Thief?
Belturne (Nate): ? - ?
Kopfen (?): ? - ?
Wolfgang(?): ? - Knight?
Suede(?): ? - ?

Any plans to have such a writeup?
-Dan

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 

http://westmarchsaga.wikia.com/wiki/WM/Delvers

Bruno has a pixie wizard, Kevin has a mountain elf scout, Ted has a gargoyle knight, Nathan has a dwarf cleric, Joel has a minotaur martial artist*, Hari should have a catfolk swashbuckler.

The GM has 25 monsters to write up in the next few days. Ick.

* A surprisingly effective build, with 4 points of DR (Tough Skin).