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-   -   Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=52506)

Harald387 06-25-2009 02:27 PM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno (Post 810953)
Gurps Magic (And the powers system) prices geometric increases in area with a linear cost increase (charge is by radius of effect not by area covered). A linear increase in damage scales with a linear increase in cost as well.

Explosions are pretty specifically priced even in the powers system as being only modestly more expensive than a straight single target attack. Considering that, unlike Area effects in Magic, you can't create any protected zones in an explosion, and that the damage drops off sharply rather than being evenly distributed, I think that's actually pretty fair.

It would be more consistent with the rest of the system to just come up with a bigger linear cost than to change to a geometric increase in cost.

The problem isn't so much explosions (whose damage decreases with range) but the fragmentation effect of the Explode spell - the more energy you get, the more range *and* more damage you get, and 'Multiple possible hits for 6d damage out to 30 yards for 12 energy' is kind of insane.

Bruno 06-25-2009 03:35 PM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Harald387 (Post 811015)
The problem isn't so much explosions (whose damage decreases with range) but the fragmentation effect of the Explode spell - the more energy you get, the more range *and* more damage you get, and 'Multiple possible hits for 6d damage out to 30 yards for 12 energy' is kind of insane.

Oh hey, woops, missed that! I totally didn't realize that was going on there. I thought it was a flat 2d or something plus a variable explosion.

Never mind me!

mlangsdorf 06-30-2009 10:08 AM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
Session 41
http://westmarchsaga.wikia.com/wiki/...ouded_Valley/7

This session was pretty cinematic - Ayake, Connell, and Mrugnak engaged dozens of goblins in hand-to-hand combat and sent them packing. Actually, it was mostly Ayake using Shockwave to explode all the goblins on one side, but that's an implementation detail.

Tactically, the goblins have been at a disadvantage. Richard's Explode spell forces them to keep more than 10+ hexes between units or die, and with relatively low movement, they can't close in fast enough after someone makes it into melee range with a delver. So instead of massing their forces enough to overcome the delver's Active Defenses, they're getting killed just as the next wave of reinforcements arrives. Or the one time that a bunch of people attacked at once, Ayake just used Shockwave to blow them up.

On the plus side (from the GM's view), Berkun is struggling with the ogres approaching him. The darkness is really limiting the accuracy of the Scout. I suspect there will be running and shouting in a few more rounds.

One weird rule quirk did come up: the maximum scatter of an attack is Margin of Failure in yards. That's fine for grenades thrown at 20 yards or less, but it's weird that Richard's arrows, shot from 100s of yards away, are that precise. Maybe we should increase the scatter amount to MoF * (1+X) yards, with X starting at 0 and increasing by 1 for every 6 steps on the range chart? (So 0 at 20 yards or less, 1 at 200 yards or less, 2 at 2000 yards or less, etc). That's still probably too generous.

mlangsdorf 07-14-2009 11:44 AM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
Sessions 42 and 43
http://westmarchsaga.wikia.com/wiki/...ouded_Valley/9

There was a delay in posting these because I had network issues last week that caused the game to end early. I also lost the chat log, and Bruno didn't email her copy until yesterday afternoon.

The delvers finally finished killing all the goblins and ogres*, at relatively low cost to themselves: several bottles of paut, a few hit points here or there, some castings of Major Healing, and some fatigue. Normally, the paut would be the only permanently expended resource and everyone would just rest to recover the fatigue, but the next wave of the Valley's defenders is already on the march. The PCs are going to have to balance recover fatigue with granting the enemy initiative in the next attack.

The only real unresolvable mechanical issue that came up was whether Imbuements take a -2 penalty when performed during a Move and Attack. I ruled they did but the text of Move and Attack (at least in Campaigns) is ambiguous on the matter.

Next week: the delvers rest a bit, and face off against the oncoming orc knights. Mounted and on foot, with the cavalry deliberately coming around on the flank. Should be an interested tactical challenge for the PCs.


* 27 goblin warbands, each with around 8 members, and 16 ogres. Killed in 2 minutes of archery plus 50(!) rounds of melee combat, of which we gamed out about 45. I think this was the biggest RPG battle I've ever participated in. I should write it up in Mass Combat terms sometime.

Harald387 07-14-2009 11:52 AM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf (Post 819497)
Sessions 42 and 43
http://westmarchsaga.wikia.com/wiki/...ouded_Valley/9

The delvers finally finished killing all the goblins and ogres*, at relatively low cost to themselves: several bottles of paut, a few hit points here or there, some castings of Major Healing, and some fatigue. Normally, the paut would be the only permanently expended resource and everyone would just rest to recover the fatigue, but the next wave of the Valley's defenders is already on the march. The PCs are going to have to balance recover fatigue with granting the enemy initiative in the next attack.

I'm generally happy to give the enemy initiative; Ayake can be as dangerous on the defensive as on the attack. That said, 'give the initiative to an attacker' and 'give the initiative to one hundred attackers' can be very different things, so we'll see how it works out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf (Post 819497)
The only real unresolvable mechanical issue that came up was whether Imbuements take a -2 penalty when performed during a Move and Attack. I ruled they did but the text of Move and Attack (at least in Campaigns) is ambiguous on the matter.

I'm happy to give them -2 (it's noted that Acrobatics should do so, for instance), though I'd assume that penalty (like the -4 for attacks) would be removed on a Heroic Charge. It makes 'move and fling imbued shuriken' marginally less reliable, and that's probably not a bad thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf (Post 819497)
Next week: the delvers rest a bit, and face off against the oncoming orc knights. Mounted and on foot, with the cavalry deliberately coming around on the flank. Should be an interesting tactical challenge for the PCs.

Fortunately, Breath Control and high skill in Recover Energy make resting *very* worthwhile for those of us whose powers require boatloads of FP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf (Post 819497)
* 27 goblin warbands, each with around 8 members, and 16 ogres. Killed in 2 minutes of archery plus 50(!) rounds of melee combat, of which we gamed out about 45. I think this was the biggest RPG battle I've ever participated in. I should write it up in Mass Combat terms sometime.

I'd be interested in seeing what this fight would look like in MC, both 'on paper' and in execution. I should probably pick up Mass Combat, now that I think on it.

demonsbane 07-14-2009 04:24 PM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf (Post 819497)
Sessions 42 and 43 (...)

It seems the scale of the things is increasing O_o.

Some screenshots in addition to the log would be great.

BTW, I like your West March Local Map. I wonder what software did you use but it looks simple & elegant.

mlangsdorf 07-14-2009 05:32 PM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by demonsbane (Post 819636)
It seems the scale of the things is increasing O_o.

Some screenshots in addition to the log would be great.

BTW, I like your West March Local Map. I wonder what software did you use but it looks simple & elegant.

I always forget to take screen shots. Maybe I'll remember next time.

The local map here http://westmarchsaga.wikia.com/wiki/WM/West_March
was created with a couple of tools. The underlying map was originally done up with the Battle for Wesnoth (http://wesnoth.org) map editor. I took a screenshot of that map and copied it into the GIMP (http://www.gimp.org) to do the photo-editing. Then I made a new transparent layer, traced the countours I wanted to save, added the text and color, and copied that to a new file as the player's local map. When I did the countours, I just added some jitter to make it look a little more natural. I wanted to add some transforms to make it look more hand-written or parchment-like, but my GIMP-fu wasn't up to the task.

demonsbane 07-14-2009 07:17 PM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf (Post 819661)
(...) When I did the counters, I just added some jitter to make it look a little more natural. I wanted to add some transforms to make it look more hand-written or parchment-like, but my GIMP-fu wasn't up to the task.

It's enough for me, however... Thanks for answering with this explanation. I'm downloading Battle for Wesnoth for testing its map editor.

mlangsdorf 07-15-2009 03:18 PM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
The Battle of the Shrouded Valley in Mass Combat Terms

The Valley Residents
All valley residents have the Night feature.
* 4 TL3 Light Artillery (ballistae on the walls) w/ Good Equipment (ogre reloaders) and Average Troop. TS 4x(3), Art.
* 3 Ogres (24 ogres) w/ Basic Equipment and Average Troop. TS 3x8.
* 3 Horse Archers (24 Goblin Wolfriders) w/ Poor Equipment and Average Troop. TS 3x1.5, Cv, Rec, F.
* 27 Light Infantry (27 Goblin Warbands) w/ Poor Equipment and Average Troop. TS 27x1.5, Rec.
* 10 Bowmen (10 Goblin Archer Warbands) w/ Poor Equipment and Average Troop. TS 10x1.5, F.

Total TS 84. Cav 4.5, Rec 45, F 19.5, Art 12.

The Delvers
* Ayake: Hero Bowman w/ Fine equipment and Elite Troop. Super & Night features. TS 1x12, F.
* Berkun: Hero Bowman w/ Very Fine equipment and Elite Troop. Super feature. TS 1x14, F.
* Connell: Hero Flying Mage w/ Fine equipment and Elite Troop. Super & Night features. TS 1x30, Air, Art, C3I, F, Rec.
* Mrugnak: Hero Ogre w/ Very Fine equipment and Elite troop. Super & Impetuous features. TS 1x56.
* Richard: Hero Flying Mage w/ Very Fine equipment and Elite Troop. Super Feature. TS 1x35, Air, Art, C3I, F, Rec.

Total TS 147. Cav 0, Rec 75, F 101, Art 75, Air 75, C3I 75.

The Valley Forces are encamped in mountains and have No Security. They have friendly relations with the locals.

The delvers are on the rode and have hostile local relations. They are assaulting the enemy base.

The GM rules there is no real reconnaissance phase and cuts straight to the battle. He rules it is an encounter battle, as the delvers basically walk up the hill and assault the gates. Due to the magical shroud over the valley, the battle occurs at night. On the first round, the Valley dwellers are confused.

Round 1: The delvers choose an All-Out Attack while the defenders must choose Rally. The delvers have Air, Artillery, and C3I dominance, as well as 2:1 advantage in Fire. That gives them a +11 to the Strategy contest. The goblins have a cavalry dominance and are in permanent fortifications for +10 to their roll. After TS reductions for a night battle, neither side has a relative troop strength modifier. The delvers are rolling against Richard's Strategy-12 with a +13 bonus; the goblins are rolling against some sub-officer's Strategy-12 with a +8 bonus.

For risk, Ayake, Connell, and Mrugnak take risk modifiers of +3 while Berkun and Richard take +0. Ayake and Mrugnak succeed their significant action rolls for another +2 to Richard's Strategy. Richard rolls well and the goblins do not, so Richard wins by 10.

The goblins are thrown back with 35% casualties. The delvers cross the wall for a +3 Position Bonus, but take 10% casualties in the process when a lucky goblin squad overruns Ayake. The goblins manage to rally, but with 35% casualties, they're effectively useless for the next round. Mrugnak and Richard fail their Misfortunes of War roll. Mrugnak ignores the feeble damage, but Richard is briefly downed by goblin archery.

Before the start of the second round, both sides are reinforced. The delvers pick up Cid Silverwing, Hero Heavy Infantry; the goblins add 10 elements of
well-equipped good heavy cavalry, 10 elements of well-equipped good heavy infantry, and a few more ogres. The momentum of position and casualties favors the delvers, but the goblin/orc force will be getting Troop Strength bonuses. The eventual winner is still very much in doubt.

mlangsdorf 07-21-2009 02:30 PM

Re: Review of Play: The Saga of the Westmarch DF Game
 
Session 44
http://westmarchsaga.wikia.com/wiki/...uded_Valley/10

This was a mechanically straightforward session that turned into a bit of a downer due to some tactically poor decisions on the delver's part and some nitwittery on the GM's part.

First the nitwittery: I should have had the goblin mage open up with a 9d explosive lightning bolt. Richard's player would have messed around with it (Deflect Missile, maybe) and taken some damage. Instead, I downgraded it to a 4d lightning bolt, and got a lot of justifiable arguments about how his character shouldn't have been hit.

The delvers aren't doing a good job of focusing their fire, which is important when outnumbered 40:1. Cid's player also made a huge mistake by all-out attacking in the situation he was in. Richard was possibly over-concerned about the goblin mage, when he should have been lofting 4d Burning Touch arrows into the orc knight masses: he can get them off very quickly and because armor ignoring melee spells can't be Blocked, he'd almost certainly be doing damage every round.

It's entirely possible that the next session or two will end in a Total Party Kill. As the GM, I'd be sad to see the campaign end on a downer, but I'm looking forward to the reboot campaign we're playing so I'd get over it. I'm not going to fiat it into happening, though.


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