The THS Spaceship Thread
 

I open this thread to collect new and interesting ship designs, with which our PC's (or NPC's) can boldly go where no man has gone before.

I start with a design of my own:





Many military experts of the early 22nd century believe that the trend in space warfare is going towards slimer Space Dominance Vehicles, so called LSDV’s. But the most prominent LSDV class in service, the LSDV-5 Hermann Oberth class, as well its variant, the LSDV-6 Soldati, turned out to be weakly armed, equipped with barely adequate sensors, and generally having a rather limited capability profile, greatly disappointing the expectations of especially Germany's Raumwaffe.

With a new German government’s willingness to spend more money for defense, while promoting a “lighter-but-more-advanced-is-better” doctrine at the same time, Systems Technologies newly formed space-ship development division Astrion proposed a new LSDV design of greatly increased abilities.

In spring 2098 the German government signalled its support for the LSDV-7 project, which led to a controversity in Germany, since the LSDV-5 (Herrmann Oberth class) had just been introduced…many saw it as proof that System Technologies had used its power to influence the German states decision making, with the aim being to pocket more tax money. The very high price for one LSDV-7 ship did not help to dispel this suspicion.

Nonetheless, the building of a prototype ensued, named “Fomalhaut” (pronounced "Foh-mull-low"), which was ready for field testing in autumn 2101, within record time.

The Fomalhaut prototype proved to be impressive indeed, featuring unpreceeded performance characteristics and versatility. It’s a very sleek design, measuring a mere 45 feet wide on average and 195 feet long. The front is sharply sloped, although it is not streamlined: the hull is a slightly flattened cylinder with a surface consisting of a multitude of plane surfaces giving it a somehow fractal-patterned appearance. The radiator wings are of a similar design as those of the Hermann Oberth class. Compared to the LSDV-5 ships, sensors, front armor and especially the weaponry have been significantly upgraded. Also, the living quarters are more generous, the Fomalhaut has ample space for a human crew of five and up to eight Commando soldiers for boarding operations.
The most interesting feature of the Fomalhaut is the unique HT/HI AM pulse twin drive. This enables the LSDV-7 ships to combine the long range capabilities and Delta-V of the SDV-90 Resolution/Gram class ships with an acceleration capability during space combat which exceeds those of the Hermann Oberth class. In case of an emergency, both drives can be used at once, resulting in an acceleration on par with an AKV. However, this can be sustained only for about 18 minutes (with extended radiator wings), because of rapid overheating.

Typical payload is 500.3 tons. This includes either four Greif (Griffin) class AKV's or three Griffins and one MRF-5 “Störtebecker” class Personnel Deployment Vehicle (PDV) for boarding operations, as well as five human crewmembers, a fire team of up to eight Space Commandos, cybershells (4t weight assumed for all crewmembers, wether biological or mechanical, and their possessions/equipment), 25t cargo and 9 coilgun ammunition packs.

From October 2101 on, the Fomalhaut conducted test flights in Earth-Lunar space. A succesful deep space testing mission to Aletheia Station and back was conducted in spring 2102.

In early 2103 the ship was finally approved and entered service with the German Bundesraumwaffe on February 1st of that year. However, it was renamed to "Orion", which also became the official name of its class. Further vessels are to be named after stars with names like Sirius, Rigel and Altair being planned.




System Technologies Astrion LSDV-7 (Orion class, former prototype name Fomalhaut)


Crew: Commander (Leadership, Shiphandling, Tactics); Pilot (Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft)); Navigator (Astrogation, Electronics Operation (Communications), Electronic Operation (Sensors)); 2 Weapons Officers (Gunner (Beams), Gunner (Railgun)); 20 Engineers (Mechanic (Antimatter Drive), Mechanic (Robotics), other Mechanic as appropriate); Medic (Diagnosis, Physician, Surgery). The usual human/parahuman crew numbers five persons (for example Commander, Navigator, one Weapons officer, one Mechanic and the Medic are human/parahuman), the rest are cybershells. The LSDV-7 has enough room to carry up to 8 infantry and associated equipment.

Design:
Cylinder (195’ x 45’, 631.8 spaces), diamondoid structure, extra-heavy frame, smart; cDR/cPF 80/10F, 5/1S, 10/1B (nanocomposite armor). Hull radiators (19 ksf); folding radiator wings (2 x 25 ksf). Chameleon surface.

Modules:
New basic bridge; large ladar, medium ladar; large PESA; large radar, medium radar; 125 HT antimatter pulse drive; 125 HI antimatter pulse drive; 250 tanks (ultralight, nuclear pellets); 0.125 antimatter bay (12.5 grams); 4 10MJ heavy laser towers [S]; 4 2.5MJ light laser towers [S]; 2 coilguns [F], coilgun [B]; 2 new 150’ particle accelerator [F]; 3 cabin; 2 bunkroom, heavy storm shelter (1 space, encloses bridge, 1000 cPF); 4 external cradles (125t each); minifac workshop; large entry module; surgery; 5 cargo (25t).

Statistics:
EMass 4083.64t; CMass 6079.1t; LMass 7579.1t.
Cost M€ 1025.99. cHP 1918. Size Modifier [Hull] +5/+9, [Radiators] +9. HT 12. Maintenance Interval: 1.25 hours. RRA 62.5.

Performance*:
sAcc (HI) 0.1 G. Burn Endurance (HI) 50 hours. Burn Points (HI) 18000. Delta-V (HI) 55 mps.
sAcc (HT) 0.2 G. Burn Endurance (HT) 12.5 hours. Burn Points (HT) 9000. Delta-V (HT) 27.5 mps.
No airspeed.

*HI drive normally used for travelling, HT drive used in combat situations. In cases of emergency “burst acceleration” of 0.3 G is possible for short time periods.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Why that? I know Fomalhaut is a star's name of Arabian origin, but is it really pronounced that way in German?

While I know that the THS design system is of stubbornly Texan origin, I really doubt that a European company would not use metres in a free description of its design.

The history of the design project is a bit short- today's navy ship building projects take up to eight years.

Other than that: What is the overall cost for this design? I really like the idea of a "combined drive", but wouldn't the cost be prohibitive, even for the mentioned "variant idea"?

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

It's not BS.

He's pointing out that while we, as players, choose to use game rules that are written in imperial measurements, continental europeans use the far superior metric system, and the "fluff" text should reflect that.

It may be incrediby nitpicky , but it's certainly not BS.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

1) The name.
"Fomalhaut" derives from an arabic name of the star in question which indeed means "mouth of the fish". That is because this (especially bright) star is part of a constellation which was said to represent a fish, and is positioned where the mouth of this imaginary fish would be. As far as the pronounciation is concerned, the one above seems indeed not to be the only one that is used. According to a dictionary it is either "fō'mul-hôt" or "fō'mu-lō".


2) The measurements. While I find it absolutely despicable that a system like GURPS stubbornly sticks to feet, pound and other such nonsense...I simply did not want to recalculate everything. I used the shipbuilding system as it was presented. That way, the ship can be much easier compared to other vessels, too.

3) The price.
Cost for a LSDV-7 type ship is around M€ 1026, which admittedly is quite expensive. But the Bundesraumwaffe states, that the Fomalhaut is considered to be a replacement for the pretty outdated Königsberg class ships...which costed M€ 1444.73 a piece. Reasoning is, that a LSDV-7 is less expensive, but able to outperform a Königsberg vessel in any way, wether it's fighting power, traffic policing, or general versatility. So what's not to like?
As far as System Technologies is concerned, their only interest is to sell some of these ships (one could atleast suspect). If they would be able to sell 10 to 15 LSDV-7's to various European or Asian nations, that would be well worth the effort.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Königsbergs are used almost exclusively in Earth-Luna space. The LSDV-7s "longer legs" would seem to be wasted in that enviroment.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Because there is an apparrent serious engineering problem?

How do you make a ship that is balanced for one drive also be balanced for two? If the thrust axis for one drive is through the middle of ship how can the thrust axis for the other (and both) also be through the middle of the ship? Especially when the drives have different thrusts.

They could of course be at opposite ends pointing in opposite directions but that doesn't allow for your idea. So drive vectoring or some sort of balance mass would seem to be required.

The ignition pulses are likely also a problem. They would likely have to be synchronised to avoid a serious vibration and/or gyration problem.

Not that this makes the idea unworkable, but it does flag it as high risk and a possible reliability issue to any potential buyer. I can see this project going way over budget ;-)

You are also dragging around 500 tons of drive that you hardly ever use. This will take some serious field demonstrations to prove to the military that you aren't better of with say another 5 AKVs instead. Again not a killer, just another hurdle to overcome.

It may be worth addressing these issues in the color text?

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Let's see, high risk, questional reliability, probably over budget.

Sounds like a realistic military contracting to me...

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

I wonder why everybody assumes that when you buy the drives for a large spacecraft, they necessarily have to be large single units. If the usual arrangement is actually four drives mounted in a square formation, then in this case the vessel might have 4 of one type and 4 of another, alternating around an octagon. (Or maybe a tight packed square for one type surrounded by a looser square of the other.)

Actually, my prefered arrangement would be five drives in a cross, normally. That way, the craft can accellerate using one drive (the centre one), two drives (either balanced pair of the outer drives), three (combination of the previous two options), four (all the outer drives), or five (all the drives). This would allow some acceleration even if one or two drives were inoperable, for example.

I wouldn't anticipate that constructive interference would be any more of a problem than it is for maritime ships with more than one engine. Even a single engine would have to be mounted in such a way as to minimise vibration to the craft as a whole. Still, "tuning" the drives might be worthwhile....

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

@thtraveller:

"Balancing problem": Well, that is not a very great problem: Looking at the LSDV-7 from behind you see four thrusters: one on top, one below it (that's one engine), and then there is one thruster left and one right (that's the other engine). The resulting balancing problem is not significantly larger than that of any other spacecraft. If you have any problem with this...simply assume that the LSDV-7 has FOUR drives: two 62.5 space HI drives and two 62.5 space HT drives. You may not believe this, but if you construct this vessle you will find that its has exactly the same stats as the present one :).
(And why not? If we look at todays aeroplanes, we see that only some have an single thrust engine, like the American GE F16, most have a double engine, like F14, F15, F18, Eurofighter and most Migs. Its safer that way. and that would make sense for spacecraft as well).
In any case the THS ship building system seems not to prohibit two different engines. I played by to the rules, as far as I can say. (Otherwise, it wouldn't be much fun).

"The ignition pulses are likely also a problem. They would likely have to be synchronised to avoid a serious vibration and/or gyration problem." Only if both engines work at once...and that is highly unusual. But yes, the ignition impulses have to be synchronised. No question. And there might be one whole NAI system onboard of an LSDV-7 that does just that...complete with a backup system or two. Since there are probably a lot of things on board of a spaceship that have to be synchronized, why not this one as well? It's a problem, yes. One of about 5 million engineering problems you have to solve if you want to build a spaceship.

"You are also dragging around 500 tons of drive that you hardly ever use. This will take some serious field demonstrations to prove to the military that you aren't better of with say another 5 AKVs instead. Again not a killer, just another hurdle to overcome."
Well. A Fomalhaut class ship usually drags one engine along that it does not use. True. There is no denying it. To make up for that weight, the LSDV-7 is build out of advanced, especially light materials. But what can is say? The numbers are all there: acceleration, delta-V, burn endurance, weapons, sensors, maintenance intervall and cost. Simply compare the data with other ships and decide wether it's worth it.
If one looks at the cost/efficency ratio of the Fomalhaut class, its seems to be quite acceptable. It may not beat the SDV-90 (very sound construction, that one), but its hell of a lot better than the Herrmann Oberth class or the abysmal Königsberg class. It's probably of a similiar kind as the Archangel/Angel class ships: impressive abilities for a high price.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Because realistically each NP engine needs a very large drive bell to shape the magnetic field - without itself melting from the radiated heat.

Multiple engines imply a huge backend to the spacecraft so that the drive bells can be spaced far enough apart to not interfere with each other magnetically or cause hot spots that would melt the bell. That means additional mass and additional engineering problems.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

That may be realistic -- not being a fusion drive engineer, I can't really say -- but the TS spacecraft design system allows you to buy a 1-ton fusion drive, and even with a higher lower limit, SDVs are one of the larger classes out there, so one could still reasonably expect that smaller engines would be available than one enormous SDV-sized drive.

Spacing several drives far apart shouldn't imply any larger mass than one centrally located. Maybe less so, considering that the effective weight of the craft will be borne at several points rather than just one.

As to magnetic effects, I think that if there's enough engineering nous available to build a 1-ton drive, there should be enough to design the fields so that they don't interfere with each other, maybe just by making sure that they aren't all on for the same 0.001 second period of pellet ignition. (Actually, I think the effective ignition period is less than that, but I can't find my Project Orion book just now....)

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Another spacecraft design. This time an AKV, a little competition for the ubiquitous Nanodynamics SIM-7 Predator. :)
Numbers and values are checked and should be in order.


System Technologies spaceship construction sub-division Astrion had been founded as part of the consolidation of the transnational. The first spaceship design it created was the MRF-1 Griffin (or Greif) which was ready for sale from 2096 on, and is meant as a direct competitor for the famous Nanodynamics Predator. Compared to this AKV the Griffin has a slightly improved sensorsuite and higher maneuverability at the cost of overall armor protection.
The Griffin design is a smoothly streamlined, slightly flattened cylinder (to fit better onto external cradles), 43 feet long with an average diameter of 10 feet, the foldable radiator wings are 30 feet times 25 feet in area. The size proved to be somewhat of a problem: the Griffin is about 15% larger than the Predator (five and a half feet longer) and the AKV holding bays of many military spaceships are designed with the exact size of the Predator in mind. The usual payload of a Griffin AKV is 9.5 tons (one coilgun ammunitions pack, either KKMP or XLMP).


System Technologies Astrion MRF-1 Griffin (Greif)

Crew:
Unmanned. Infomorph uses Astrogation, Electronics Operation (Communications), Electronics Operation (Sensors), Gunner (Railgun) and Piloting (High Performance Spacecraft). Infomorph occupies the mainframe in the unmanned controls.

Design:
Streamlined cylinder hull (10’ x 43’, 6.88 spaces, nanocomposite, extra-heavy frame, smart); cDR/cPF 70/5F, 5/1S, 10/1B (nanocomposite armor). Hull radiators (1.25 ksf), folding radiator wings (30' x 25', 1.5 ksf). Chameleon surface.

Modules:
New unmanned controls; small fixed ladar [F]; small fixed radar [F]; small PESA; coilgun [F]; 3.5 compact HT fusion pulse drive; 1.5 tanks (ultralight, nuclear pellets).

Statistics:
EMass 75.35t. CMass 93.85t. LMass 102.85t. Cost 32.08 M€. cHP 90. Size Modifier [Hull] +2/+5, [Radiators] +4. HT 12. Maintenance Interval 7.06 hours. RRA 2.5.

Performance: sAcc 0.45 G. Burn Endurance 1.79 hours. Burn points 2900. Delta-V 8.8 mps. No airspeed.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Some very minor observations:

The cradles take 8 ksf and the weapons around 2. So I think that should be around 20 ksf, not that it affects the stats.

I get around 4000 mph.

Is that cDR including the extra 40% from streamlining? If so I get about 3 tons lighter than you, otherwise about 3 tons heavier.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Are you saying you found a mistake? Not enough surface left for the radiators? I will check that again.

The Griffin is not intended to enter an atmosphere. So no need for an airspeed. Its the same with various craft of THS and SSS, they are streamlined but the description says "no airspeed". But thanks for calculating it.

It's calculated with the factor 1.4 for streamlining. Not that it matters: streamlining means that the front area has to be multiplied by 1.4, increasing armor weight an cost by that amount. But you may also armor increase the armor cDR value for the front side of an streamlined cylinder by 1.4 (THS page 189) so actually it does not make a difference for armor-mass, armor-cost and cDR wether your cylinder hull is streamlined or not.
Streamlining a cylinder DOES make a difference when it comes to the structural cost of the hull however. And, of course, the respective ship may enter an atmosphere, for whatever that's worth.
In the end it means, that it does not really make sense for an SDV or an AKV to be streamlined. Actually, the only advantage is that you could skim the atmosphere of a gasgiant for braking purposes...a dangerous maneuver which is seldom, if ever, undertaken. The Angel/Archangel class ships could be a lot cheaper if they weren't streamlined, and with the Fomalhaut class I did forgo the streamlining to save money (to save weight, I even used a diamondoid structure, which would be incredible expensive if streamlined). In the case of the Griffin I simply followed the trend set by the Predator (which also is overpriced because of streamlining, just look at the very cost effective Amazon AKV).
I guess it just looks better. :)

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Yep, you are right. I spent more surface area than the LSDV-7 has. The hull radiator area has to be reduced to 19 ksf. But even with this, the overall radiator area is still 69 ksf, which is well within the required radiator area of 62.5 ksf. Other stats are unaffected. (If something with the radiator wings had been wrong, I would have been in trouble. Puuuh.)
I plan to add some things to the LSDV-7 description anyway, I will correct that when I do so.

Thanks.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

As I understand it, and as the existing TS ships were designed, the ships get a 40% increase in front armor rating due to the sloping effect of streamlining without an increase in armor mass or area. Why you couldn't acheive the same with sloping and no streamlining is a rules artifact.

That rankled with me as well. But it is a way to get higher cDR out of the same mass and therefore better performance and I could just believe that some military _might_ be persuaded to pay for it, especially if the hull fabrication plant was in the approving ministers constituency.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

The rules say about the surface area of cylinder hulls (THS p 173): "Surface Area: [...] Front Area equals Back Area, but multiply by 1.4 if streamlined."

According to this you have an increase in area, and therefore in mass and cost if you armor it.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Doh! It's been so long I had forgotten that - and it has exposed a long time bug in my spreadsheet from when I applied a 20% increase to the combined F+B areas for SL and then split them out and left it as 20%. Oops. I hope that hasn't affected any published designs I checked.

That explains my difference.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

One more:

Since some military forces showed an interest in spacecraft that could transport small groups of soldiers or cybershells, System Technologies sub-division Astrion developed the MRF-5 PDV "Störtebeker" (pronounced "Sturtebeker", the "u" similiar to the one in "burn"; PDV stands for "Personnel Deployment Vehicle"), which was ready in 2098. The MRF-5 is a smoothly streamlined, slightly flattened cylinder, 50 feet long with an average diameter of 12 feet. It can be used to ferry military personnel, for example boarding teams, to other spacecraft or space stations. It is also able to land on most solid celestial bodies in the solar system, with the notable exception of Earth and Venus. Technically it could land on Mars, deploy a group of soldiers, and, after picking them up again, fly back into an orbit. (Since the MRF-5 is equipped with a fusion drive, this would be illegal, though).
Passenger interior arrangements of the MRF-5 (seats, banks etc) can be easily reconfigured to accommodate normal humans, battlesuited troops, cybershells, or any mix thereof.
Although designed to be controlled by an informorph, the Störtebeker spacecraft features a cockpit with a full set of controls. It is separated from the passenger and cargo area with a solid door, although not with an airlock.
The combat mass below has been calculated with a payload of 8.1 tons in mind, which would represent a force of something like 15 to 20 fully equipped battelsuited troopers along with 10 heavy cyber infantry shells similiar to the Ridgway, 10 lighter combat cybershells like the Combat Naga and some hundred kilograms of other equipment crammed into the PDV.

The Störtebeker is equipped with a light laser. The fusion drive is not able to power the laser and the full sensor array at the same time. To compensate for this, a battery system provides energy for up to 4000 seconds of constant laser and sensor usage. In cases of emergency, an unmanned MRF-5 can be used as a pretty decent AKV.


System Technologies Astrion MRF-5 PDV "Störtebeker"

Crew: Pilot or unmanned. Pilot or infomorph use Electronics Operation (Communications), Electronic Operation (Sensors), Gunner (Beams), and Piloting (High Performance Spacecraft).

Design: Streamlined cylinder (12' x 50', 11.52 spaces, nanocomposite, heavy frame, smart hull); cDR/cPF 21/2F, 5/1S, 5/1B (nanocomposite armor). Hull radiators (2 ksf), folding radiator wings (1 ksf). Chameleon Surface.

Modules: New cockpit; small ladar; small radar; small PESA; 3.5 compact HT fusion pulse drive; 1.7 tanks (ultralight, nuclear pellets); 1 2.5MJ light laser [F]; 2 passenger seats; small robot arm; small entry module; 0.1 battery; 1 cargo space (5t).

Statistics: EMass 85.97t. CMass 104.27t; LMass 114.47t. Cost M€ 34.97. cHP 66. Size Modifier [Hull] +2/+6; [Radiators] +4. HT 12. Maintenance Intervall 6.76 hours. RRA 2.5.

Performance: sAcc 0.4 G. Burn Endurance 2.02 hours. Burn Points 2909. Delta-V 8.89 mps. Air Speed 330 mph.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Added some corrections to the LSDV-7 design description.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Another good design.

Is it canon that it is illegal to use nuclear engines on Mars? I seem to recall it being hinted at but not actually explicitly stated.

I would be tempted to reduce side armor cDR and try and eliminate the radiator wings if possible - as these are mass sinks.

Did you mean for some or all of these to be fixed sensors? I am 0.38 spaces over budget and 3 tons over mass. Otherwise I am pretty close on the other stats.

For the civilian unstreamlined version see here: http://www.thtraveller.dsl.pipex.com...diaExpress.htm ;-)

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Puuuh. As for the space, it wasn't easy to find my mistake. I had counted the light laser tower with the spaces and mass of a laser. And since I had to use up nearly all of the space, I cannot compensate this. :(
Ok then, the Störtebecker will have to do with a light laser without tower then...
As far as the weight is concerned, after re- and rerechecking, my values seem to be correct (except for the M€ 0.8 difference because of the tower). Could it be that you have claculated front armor with cDR 21? I have just calculated with cDR 15, since, with streamlining, this gives an REAL end cDR of 21 (15 x 1.4 = 21). If that would be true, this would account for around 2.9 t difference (with the tower mistake 3.7t).
Otherwise, I can't find a mistake as far as the weight is concerned.


I was tempted as well. But I need the radiator wings because to prevent overheating, and using non foldable wings would make the MRF-5 too vulnerable if attacked. And the side armor...well, the PDV is meant to transport troops, and provide them with at least a minimal degree of protection. It's a military vessel after all.


I'm afraid yes: THS p. 190, read the paragraph titled "Air Speed".


THX !!! That's a great design. And something I can use very well in my campaign. Thanks for sharing. :)))

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

That's odd. I always pronounced it "Fo-mal-howt..." Thanks for the ship!

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Partly in response to the Nadezhda and partly because they were already
working together on other similar projects a joint venture between Xiao Chu
and MAST have produced a prototype living passenger aircraft.

The design goals emphasised something with a completely different mission
profile than the Nadezhda. They focussed on a small practical atmospheric
craft rather than a showy and somewhat impractical interplanetary craft.

The geneticists and engineers were given requirements of maximising the
biological, minimising the cost and making it as low maintenance as possible.
The Manta is what they came up with.

The Manta's base shape is that of a standard streamlined delta but with a
responsive structure and biomechanical frame. They also made it sapient, which they have found to be a very mixed blessing. There have been as many problems with the crafts 'personality' as there have engineering problems.

During flight operation the ship flexes in a biological way that onlookers
find disturbing in an aircraft. While passengers have complained it makes them
feel seasick.

The chameleon skin also allows the craft to express its personality. Its
regular crew having taught it to do set piece skin displays for demonstrations
the craft has developed its own embellishments that it varies depending on its
whims and is developing quite a reputation for amusing and artistic displays.
Sometimes taking on the appearance of different animals and other times
mirroring the colourations of regular aircraft complete with insignia. The
pair of eyes that flow over the surface following and 'watching' visiting
dignitaries or mechanics is a favourite as is making its doorway look like a
gaping mouth or other bodily orifices.

The engine is a small fission air-ram that allows it remain aloft indefinitely
at supersonic speeds though it seems to prefer minimum speed flying. Having
broken the sound barrier once the craft seems reluctant to do it again. The
mildly radioactive engine housing also makes the craft feel antsy and it
refuses to fly without regular anti-radiation nano .

The craft is fitted with a small cockpit but after hundreds of hours aloft the
craft can fly itself better than any pilot and it is growing to resent being
'man-handled'.

One positive engineering feature of the design is that it only needs a landing
strip of under a 100 yards long and 10 yards wide. As it weighs no more than a moderate delivery vehicle it can take off and land on ordinary roads or other
hard surface.

The prototype has however met reliability and performance targets and the
production version is already on the drawing board though heated arguments are still taking place about whether it should be sapient or not...


Manta-class passenger bio-aircraft:

Design: 28ft Streamlined Delta (1.4 spaces, Nanocomposite, Lifting Body,
Smart, Responsive, Biomechanical, Light frame); cDr/cPF 0.2/1FSB
(Nanocomposite armor), Chameleon surface

Modules: Old Cockpit, Very Small PESA, Very Small Radar, Very Small Ladar,
0.25 Fission air-ram, 1 passenger seating (16 seats),

Statistics: LMass 5.1, CMass 5.1, Dry Mass 5.1, EMass 3.4,
Payload mass 1.7, Cost M$ 1.7, cHP 5, Size Modifier [hull] 4/1,
Maintenance interval 55.4 hours (1.7 hours per day)

Performance: sAccel, Empty sAccel 1.48 G,
Air speed (Earth) 2400 mph, Stall speed 77 mph, Takeoff run 76 yards.

Payload: Crew 1, Seated passengers 16, Cargo 0 tons
Dietary requirements 9 man days rations per day plus anti-radiation
supplements.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Another entry:


From the moment that the first SDV-90 entered service in 2091, System Technologies and Vosper-Babbage ran a program whose objective was to evaluate the performance of the vessels, to collect experiences and to prepare the development of an improved version. Work on an enhanced version, termed SDV-90U, began in earnest in 2098 (prompted in particular by somewhat sobering results of combat exercises with American DFS-2 Angel Class SDVs) and was completed four years later. In mid 2102, the German MoD agreed to finance the upgrade being applied to the Bundesraumwaffe vessel "Mimung", which was turned to a SDV-90U type until early 2103. In the spring of that year, the ship entered a series of test flights which are scheduled to last until the end of August 2103, closely watched by the German and British militaries. Based upon the results of these it will be decided by German and British authorities wether other SDV-90 vessels in service of the RNSS or the Bundesraumwaffe, or even all of them, will be upgraded.

The substantial changes during the refitting process were based upon the experiences made by crews of Gram/Resolution class vessels during numerous operations and military exercises, especially those with other space forces, both European and international. The complete metal-matrix armor of the SDV-90 is replaced by considerably more effective nanocomposite armor, the ship's laser array is improved and the side coilgun is replaced by a second coilgun facing to the front. Also, a battery pack is installed which enables the ship to use all its weapon and primary sensor systems continously for half an hour. As far as the sensors are concerned, the two large PESA systems are replaced by one very powerful main PESA array and a smaller emergency replacement system. The upgrade follows the tendency to a smaller human crew, accordingly, the number of cabins is reduced and one of the two very heavy storm shelters of the original design is taken out. The large space dock hangar of the SDV-90 is replaced by a smaller, specialized vehicle bay which is taylored for a MRF-5 PDV. Because of the important role that AKVs play in space battles, the number of external cradles has been increased from four to twelve. The refitted "Mimung" also switched from using SIM-7 Predator Class AKVs to using MRF-1 Griffin Class AKVs. That all of these are externally carried instead inside the SDV is faciliating their deployment in a combat situation. The radiator wings are unchanged and still measure 274' x 274'. The usual payload of an SDV-90U, including twelve Griffin AKVs and one Störtebeker PDV, is 2,004 tons, compared to 1,231.8 tons of an original SDV-90. Despite this, the upgraded version reaches a slighty higher acceleration and final Delta-V than its predecessor.

A new SDV-90U would have a price tag of M€ 1,046.88. The process of upgrading an old SDV-90 costs M€ 400 and takes at least half a year.





System Technologies Astrion / Vosper-Babbage SDV-90U (Upgraded Gram and Resolution Classes)


Crew:
Commander (Leadership, Shiphandling, Tactics); Pilot (Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft)); Navigator (Astrogation, Electronics Operation (Communications), Electronic Operation (Sensors)); 3 Weapons Officers (Gunner (Beams), Gunner (Railgun)); 20 Engineers (Mechanic (Fusion Drive), Mechanic (Robotics), other Mechanic as appropiate); Medic (Diagnosis, Physician, Surgery); Mission Specialist (Electronics Operation (Sensors), Intelligence Analysis, SIGINT Collection/Jamming, Traffic Analysis).
The usual human/parahuman crew of a SDV-90U numbers eight or nine persons, the others are infomorphs. The ship has enough additional room to carry up to 12 battlesuit-equipped human/parahuman infantry and associated equipment.

Design:
Cylinder hull (1,500 spaces, metal-matrix composite, heavy frame, smart); cDR/cPF 90/10F, 5/1S, 20/2B (nanocomposite armor). Hull radiators (37,5 ksf), folding radiator wings (150 ksf). Chameleon surface.

Modules:
New command bridge; 2 large ladar; large PESA +2, medium PESA; 2 large radar; 375 HI fusion pulse drive; 750 tanks (ultralight, nuclear pellets); 8 10-MJ heavy laser towers [S]; 4 10-MJ heavy laser towers [F]; 10 2.5-MJ light laser towers [S]; 3 coilguns [F/F/B]; 350' new particle accelerator [F]; 5 cabin; 3 bunkroom; 1 heavy storm shelter (2-space: encloses bridge, cPF 1,000); 12 external cradles (125 tons each); minifac workshop; large entry module; vehicle bay (Störtebeker PDV: 115 tons, 0,17 ksf; 12.5 spaces); surgery; 1 battery; 72 cargo (360 tons).

Statistics:
EMass 7,260; CMass 14,129; LMass 18,628. Cost M€ 1,046.88. cHP 1,920. Size Modifier [Hull] +6/+10, [Radiators] +10. HT 12. Maintenance Interval: 1.24 hours. RRA 187.

Performance:
sAcc: 0.11 G. Burn Endurance: 50 hours. Burn Points: 19,800. Delta-V: 60.5 mps. No air speed.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Good idea.

All seem sensible upgrades. I note that Nanocomposite and Metal matrix have similar densities too so existing cabling, etc should still fit.

Though the lack of a spacedock means you can't repair one with combat damage easily.

Though with the reduced hull radiators its reserve is impacted, and its combat endurance with radiators closed is strongly impacted.

The new armor plus PESAs alone cost nearly M€ 420 plus the cost of removing old armor and removing and refixing all surface features.

Though the old PESAs and armor should be reusable which should claw back a significant chunk of this.

365 tons?

I generally get within a couple of percent on stats. Though I am around 360 tons lighter on EMASS (which oddly is the mass of +2 PESA bonus).

You don't seem to have any space left. There is nowhere to put the coilgun ammo packs. The original SDV-90 had 27 packs at 0.5 spaces, 9.5 tons each. Or are these counted in cargo space?

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

True. But then, the vehicle bay is almost one space larger than the Störtebeker and this is an age of teleoperation and advanced cybershells who come in all sizes, so many repairs should still be possible. A pressurized hangar certainly has its merits but in the end I decided for the vehicle bay solution.





Heh, heh. In combat, the old SDV-90 can last 5.6 rounds without radiatior wings before overheating, while the SDV-90U can do almost exactly 5 rounds (5.003 rounds), so the actual effects in battle are more limited than one would expect. But it is tight, no question.





Ups...you're right. 365 tons it is. (Nitpick...)





375 tons...I forgot to subtract the cargo load.




I have included 27 ammo-packs for the coilgun in the payload but I assumed that they are transported in the cargo hold. It didn't occur to me to leave unused space for it, space in which ammo packs are transported isn't entirely unused after all. If you think that should be done otherwise, simply reduce the cargo by one space or a half to gain the leftover space, although that has of course no real effects on any stats.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Yup. No real effect. It just makes the accounting easier to list them separately as the ammo packs have density 19 rather the normal cargo density of 5.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Kitsune, I’d like to build on what you did and take it in a different direction. Yes, the SDV-90’s second 2-space heavy storm shelter is a huge amount of mass, and removing it gives you lots of options.

So what if instead of a more expensive design, the goal is to win where most sales are – the LSDV market -- by modifying this proven design to create something more powerful and versatile than any LSDV but cheaper than any SDV?

To keep our troop-carrying ability, instead of deleting the second shelter let’s merge the two into a single 4-space shelter. Now, the 2 space shelter has 1.27 times more volume/mass than the 1-space does, which makes sense since 1.27 is roughly the cube root of 2. So let’s assume that the 4-space heavy storm shelter similarly has 1.27 times the mass of a 2-spacer, which is actually a conservative figure since the wall thickness will not increase as the diameter increases. Thus the merging of the shelters will save us 1,226 tons, 15 spaces, and $12.3M.

Let’s bring the bow armor up to match the best LSDVs. 15 points will give us 70/20F, mass 150 tons and cost $9M.

Now to save the big bucks: Change the fuel tanks from Ultralight to Light materials. That saves $70M (which also cuts your maintenance effort/engineer requirement). It also adds 503 tons, but net-net we’re still lighter by 573 tons.

Fill the 15 spaces with expanded living quarters/troop training rooms, and you’ve got a ship that’s cheaper than the LSDV-5, not much more expensive than the Sun LSDV, far more flexible and powerful than either, and with only easy-to-implement changes from the existing, proven design.

Plus the shelter merge and bow armor upgrade can be done to existing ships for additional revenue.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

I like your ideas, Negentropist. If possible, come up with a short introduction about who planned and build this ship (which company/military or so) and then just feel free to publish the stats of the resulting spaceship here in this thread - that's what it is for.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Kitsune, Thank you very much for your kind encouragement. And so:

PRESENTATION BY THE CEO OF VOSPER-BABBAGE:

Thank you all for coming. We've all heard how LSDVs are the wave of the future, that SDVs are dead. Well, I'm here today to drive a stake through that meme's heart.

It is my pleasure to announce the new SDV-90L: SDV Power at an LSDV price.

Observe the display showing a cross-section of our standard SDV-90, with the two heavy 2-space storm shelters highlighted. By simply merging the two into a single, larger shelter, we save 1,222 tons and all this space. Boost the front armor by 27% to match or beat any LSDV’s armor, and we’re still lighter than before.

Now, the SDV-90 can do three things that no LSDV can. First, we can deliver troops to a target to capture it intact, to rescue hostages, for any mission where, as the 20th century space warfare author CJ Cherryh noted, you need a scalpel instead of hammer. So let’s start filling this newfound space with three bunks to let us carry a second squad of troops, an old basic bridge for improved troop command and control – something no other ship offers – and another cabin and two more bunkrooms in case you want to carry VIPs or actually bring home the beings you’ve rescued. An LSDV can blow up a station or merchant ship. We can capture and hold it.

The second thing the SDV-90 can do that no LSDV can is keep on fighting after the first battle. Damage happens – what do you do then? The LSDV-5, LSDV-6, and the Riguang only have five cargo spaces – not much room for fabrication materials or spare parts you can’t make on board. The LSDV-5 and Riguang have antimatter engines, and the latter has a nanocomposite hull. Few shipyards can handle those, and your foe knows where they are, which means he knows where you must go next. The SDV-90 has 75 cargo spaces and a metal-matrix hull – we can always just go deep for self-repair and return at a time and place of our choosing, or dock at any shipyard in the system if necessary. Let’s boost our ability to “take a licking and keep on ticking” – add in a second minifac, a second surgery module with an adjacent additional bunkroom to care for any casualties, and a 5-space hall for morale and troop training on long voyages. An LSDV can fight a battle. We can fight a war.

The third thing the SDV-90 can do that no LSDV can do is fight an LSDV and its AKVs at the same time. We have a 350’ particle accelerator, 12 heavy lasers, and 10 light lasers. Try pitting any LSDV and its AKVs against that kind of firepower. But just to make the battle even more one-sided, we’ve added batteries, so we can now fire all our heavy lasers for 1,125 seconds at the same time we fire our particle accelerator. Game it out. You’ll see that the LSDV runs out of AKVs long before we run out of battery power.

Now, these are very simple changes – nothing affecting drives, hull, or critical systems. It’s available as a quick refit to existing SDV-90s. Yet by reducing their mass by 1,050.4 tons it will boost their acceleration to .108 Gs and their delta-V to 59 mps.

But for new orders, we offer this SDV power at an LSDV price. We do this by taking the refit and replacing the ultralight fuel tanks with light ones. Again – a simple change so you get all the benefits of a proven design with 17 ships of that class already in service. It drops the ship’s price by M$69.8 for a total price of M$740.3. That’s less than the cost of an LSDV-5 without AKVs or a Riguang with three AKVs. And it’s only 6.5% more than an LSDV-6 with its standard four Predator AKVs.

Its performance still beats the original SDV-90. The mass is still reduced by 547.9 tons, so the ship accelerates at .104Gs and its delta-V is 57mps. Its maintenance interval increases to 1.47 hours, making it easier to maintain. And remember that bow armor upgrade.

For those with LSDV-scaled budgets, we recommend the following craft loadout:
- Four inexpensive AKVs, eternally mounted for rapid deployment
- Two Puma MAV boarding craft for troop deployment

I present to you all the SDV-90L: SDV power at an LSDV price!


THS statistics:

New module: 4-space Heavy Storm Shelter. 26.7 spaces, 2, 138.2 tons, $M21.4.

SDV-90L: Variant on SDV-90, THS main book p. 192. Remove the two 2-space heavy storm shelters. Add 15 points of bow armor, one 4-space heavy storm shelter, one cabin, 6 bunkrooms, 1 surgery, 1 minifac, 1 old basic bridge, ½ hall (5 spaces), and 1 battery. Change all 750 spaces of fuel tanks from ultralight to light. Reduces all Mass by 547.9 (CMass to 14,368.1), total ship cost $M740.3, sAccel 0.104Gs, Delta-V: 57 mps. Burn endurance: 50 hours.

Re: The THS Spaceship Thread
 

Nice. By the way, even the battery pack alone is a good idea for a mini-update of every SDV-90. I understand that one space of battery should be able to power the ten light lasers of a Resolution/Gram class ship for 18 combat rounds - and enable it this way to use all its weapons and primary sensor systems at the same time for that duration. Effective stats are unaffected except for cargo space, which is reduced by 5 tons, and cost, which goes up by M$ 0.75. Which seems to be an acceptable trade. I included this as well in the SDV-90U design.

Another enhancement to the SDV-90L
 

I would like to make some further enhancements to my SDV-90L design, and retcon them into the announcement from earlier in this thread.

To recap the story so far: The cheaper LSDVs are considered the wave of the future. They let more groups enter the campaign, and two LSDVs can flank a single SDV.

My SDV-90L design assumes that Vosper-Babbage, maker of the SDV-90 (THS core rulebook, p. 192), reacts by modifying its proven (i.e. fully debugged) SDV-90 design to make it price-competitive with the LSDVs listed in the THS book “Spacecraft of the Solar System.” In order to keep the marketing points of “proven design” and “maintainability”, no nanocomposites, antimatter, or elements needing debugging (e.g. new engine designs) were allowed.

The previously-posted design combined the SDV-90’s two heavy storm shelters into one 4-space shelter. This saved enough mass to upgrade the bow armor to 70/20F and replace the Ultralight fuel tanks with Light, bringing the price below the LSDV-5 and not too far above the Chinese LSDV. It also saved enough space to improve crew living conditions and add a battery that let all weapons fire in combat.

I would like to suggest some more changes that further enhance the SDV-90L’s attractiveness vs. the various LSDVs.

First, those 10 light lasers are utterly worthless in combat. At short or effective range they each do 2Dx5 damage, making them unable to penetrate a warship’s bow armor. Replace them with coilguns (which fit into the space), saving 40MW and almost $M20. No additional munitions packs are needed because the ship already carries 27 of them, and one doesn’t need many 11-gun broadsides to end a battle.

Second, yank the engines and replace them with the engines from the DFS-3, a craft that has the same size and about the same mass as the SDV-90. Which means that the SDV-90L will have performance comparable with the DFS3 and most LSDV offerings – and you’re still using a fully-debugged design component. The reduction of engine size from 375 to 250 spaces also lets you cut the retracting radiator wings by 62 ksf. Saving from engine and radiators: $M81, 156 spaces, and 810 tons.

Third, these changes create an energy shortfall of 85MW/turn. One battery pack will cover this for ten turns – more if the ship is not engaged from all sides.

Fourth, fill the vacated room with 150 spaces of fuel tank (light not ultralight, remember) and increase the rec hall by 5 spaces.

Finally, there is no reason to have the stern armored to 16cDR. Cut off 11 of that and add it to the bow. Bow armor is now 81/50F. Yes, 50F, which means that it can go head-to-head with the more-than-triple-the-price, two-beam DFS-3 and come out ahead in the radiation department.

Total price: $M650.9 – cheaper than the Chinese LSDV, yet far deadlier. sAccel is .07Gs, and delta-V is 68mps. Maintenance interval is 1.57 hours.

Definitely “SDV power at an LSDV price.”