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-   -   Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=45904)

Kelly Pedersen 10-10-2008 03:39 AM

Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
What do people think of a perk that lets you get a +2 bonus from your first turn of Evaluate, instead of +1? I'm not sure if it's overpowered for a perk or not. If it's not, what about making it stackable - each time you take it, it makes another round of Evaluate give you +2. So, if you take it twice, the first two rounds of Evaluate give you +4 total, and the last gives you +1, while if you take it three times, it gives you +2 every turn.
If it's too powerful as written, what about requiring a Perception roll, or possibly a Per-based combat skill roll, to get the extra bonus?

The Wrathchild 10-10-2008 03:58 AM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
I think it would be overpowered as three turn of +2 each. I'd be more inclined to say that the perk could enable some sort of "speed evaluating", grating +2 for 1 turn, and the +3 max for 2 turns.

Alternatively +2 for turn 1, and +1 for turn 2 and 3, for +4 max - but +1 for 1 point? I think it would be a bit much.

Captain-Captain 10-10-2008 04:38 AM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen
What do people think of a perk that lets you get a +2 bonus from your first turn of Evaluate, instead of +1? I'm not sure if it's overpowered for a perk or not. If it's not, what about making it stackable - each time you take it, it makes another round of Evaluate give you +2. So, if you take it twice, the first two rounds of Evaluate give you +4 total, and the last gives you +1, while if you take it three times, it gives you +2 every turn.
If it's too powerful as written, what about requiring a Perception roll, or possibly a Per-based combat skill roll, to get the extra bonus?

An each time every time Perk bonus requires a restriction. Weapon bond is always plus 1 to ONE SINGLE WEAPON! Not transferable.

I'd put it on an attack skill bonus. You want to evaluate with rapier buy the perk. Brawling? Buy the Perk again. One perk per skill.

If you absolutely need to get another plus out of it, I'll borrow from Imbuements and say you can burn a FP for the additional +1.

Kromm 10-10-2008 11:11 AM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Evaluate isn't so potent that I'd worry about additional Evaluate bonuses getting out of control, especially if limited to one combat skill. The main place it would be useful would be for a "free" opening or surprise attack that kicks off combat . . . and there, you could just as easily use Telegraphic Attack to get +4 to your sucker punch, and Telegraphic Attack doesn't stack with Evaluate. So here are a few possible interpretations:
Long-Distance Telegram: You can throw highly "telegraphic" attacks that involve several seconds of theatrical windup before you strike. While easy to see coming, these blows are extremely precise. You may launch a Telegraphic Attack after one or more Evaluate maneuvers -- a combination that's normally forbidden -- with all of the benefits and drawbacks of both. Thus, you get +5, +6, or +7 to hit after one, two, or three turns of Evaluate, but at +2 to enemy defenses and without improving your odds of a critical hit.
This is basically making two exclusive options stackable, and is akin to something like Focused Fury (Power-Ups 2, p. 5), which is a perk.
Master's Watchful Eye: Like a true master watching his students, you can study a foe tirelessly, possibly even while warding off his blows, until you finally spot his weakness and land a lethally precise hit of your own. You can extend a series of Evaluate maneuvers over a much longer time scale than usual. After the first three, you can gain a further +1 to +5 to hit by taking Evaluate for a total of six, 12, 24, 45, or 90 seconds. You must make an IQ-based melee combat skill roll at -6 to claim each additional +1, with any failure resetting the bonus to 0.
This is extending the rules for Precision Aiming (High-Tech, p. 84) to melee. It's in essence a rules-exemption perk, and quite valid.
Rolling Stone: Just as a boulder gathers momentum rolling downhill, your Evaluate bonus increases geometrically with time. Where a normal fighter gets +1, +2, and finally +3 to hit after three turns, you get +1, +2, and then +4.
In effect, this Evaluate isn't a Telegraphic Attack but can get as good as one (+4). If you were building this as a technique, you would look at three turns of "setup" as a drawback worth +3 to default, and the technique would give you skill+3 for 0 points; thus, the way techniques are priced, skill+4 for 1 point after three turns is a reasonably fair perk.
You can "stack" these perks! You could go to +4 in the first three seconds with Rolling Stone, use Master's Watchful Eye to extend this to +9 after a total of 90 seconds and five skill rolls, and then cap it off with a Long-Distance Telegram, firing off a Telegraphic Attack at the end for another +4, for a net +13.

vicky_molokh 10-10-2008 01:11 PM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
When is Power Ups 3: Perks 2 coming out? ;)

Rocket Man 10-10-2008 01:23 PM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Molokh
When is Power Ups 3: Perks 2 coming out? ;)

Sounds like the final score of a World Series game.

Cybren 10-10-2008 10:03 PM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Man
Sounds like the final score of a World Series game.

Plenty of titles get like that. Jedi knight was the second Dark Forces game, and Jedi Outcast was the second Jedi Knight game, so it was something like Star Wars: Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast (okay that's not what it said on the box, but still).

Or how about "Rambo: First Blood Part 2"

vicky_molokh 10-28-2008 10:08 AM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Just realized that I need to start writing down Kromm-approved, post-PU2-Perks Perks. Otherwise they'll be scattered around the forum. Anybody remembers others that would fit the criteria?

Kazander 10-28-2008 10:22 AM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Explosive Slam

Figleaf23 10-29-2008 10:45 AM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
What about a Perk that lets you carry an Evaluate bonus forward until used?

Bosun Bill is an expert with the cutlass with a lot of experience fighting in boarding actions. At anchor near an unknown island, his Merchantman vessel is stealthily boarded by a ragtag band of pirates. A fight ensues with Bosun Bill facing off against the pirate leader. They trade a couple of blows an Bosun Bill decides to evaluate his opponent. After two rounds the combat swirls and they are separated. Bosun Bill dispatches two lower-order pirates and comes face to face with his original enemy once again. He remembers that earlier he noticed the pirate leader's habit of exposing his elbow during a lunge. This time Bosun Bil is ready -- the leader lunges and BAM, Bill cuts and lays open his opponent's forearm.

Erik_Nielsen 10-29-2008 02:30 PM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Man
Sounds like the final score of a World Series game.

The Perks will never reach the World Series!

NEVER!

vicky_molokh 10-29-2008 02:35 PM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Figleaf23
What about a Perk that lets you carry an Evaluate bonus forward until used?

Bosun Bill is an expert with the cutlass with a lot of experience fighting in boarding actions. At anchor near an unknown island, his Merchantman vessel is stealthily boarded by a ragtag band of pirates. A fight ensues with Bosun Bill facing off against the pirate leader. They trade a couple of blows an Bosun Bill decides to evaluate his opponent. After two rounds the combat swirls and they are separated. Bosun Bill dispatches two lower-order pirates and comes face to face with his original enemy once again. He remembers that earlier he noticed the pirate leader's habit of exposing his elbow during a lunge. This time Bosun Bil is ready -- the leader lunges and BAM, Bill cuts and lays open his opponent's forearm.

Seems both somewhat munchkiny and extremely cinematic (because he can't use the Evaluate bonus again and again by remembering stuff - it's not like an opponent will completely change the style after 1 second).

Kelly Pedersen 10-29-2008 03:37 PM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Figleaf23
What about a Perk that lets you carry an Evaluate bonus forward until used?

Not a bad thought, but I'd put some heavy limitations on how long it would carry forward. Offhand, I'd suggest having the bonus decrease by 1 for every turn you don't Evaluate and don't use the bonus. So if you Evaluate for 3 turns, you have at most three turns to let it carry over before it's gone.

vicky_molokh 10-29-2008 03:54 PM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen
Not a bad thought, but I'd put some heavy limitations on how long it would carry forward. Offhand, I'd suggest having the bonus decrease by 1 for every turn you don't Evaluate and don't use the bonus. So if you Evaluate for 3 turns, you have at most three turns to let it carry over before it's gone.

Ah, now that looks okay.

benz72 10-29-2008 06:25 PM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
-1 per turn seems a little excessive to me, I'd probably let it stick around for IQ turns before dropping. Things like making a fright check or taking more than a HP or 2 of damage would also negate the bonus (the PC had other things on his mind).
Alternatively, make the PC -1 to IQ based skills (like having a spell 'on') until he decides to let the bonus go (or he uses it of course).

Kelly Pedersen 10-29-2008 08:11 PM

Re: Perk Idea: Watchful Fighting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by benz72
-1 per turn seems a little excessive to me,

Well, -1 per two turns could possibly be justified, but it starts to look sketchy once you start adding in some of Kromm's suggestions upthread - the bonus could persist for a long time, with some of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by benz72
I'd probably let it stick around for IQ turns before dropping.

The problem is, fights don't generally last that long - even a dumb fighter will probably have at least IQ 8 - that means that it would take 11 turns for the bonus to completely disapear. At that point, you might as well say it lasts forever, because it will almost never go away before the fight is done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by benz72
Alternatively, make the PC -1 to IQ based skills (like having a spell 'on') until he decides to let the bonus go (or he uses it of course).

This isn't much of a balancing factor. Most fighters won't be using a lot of IQ-based skills in combat anyway.


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