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-   -   How to protect casters? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=42167)

Fred Brackin 07-10-2008 07:55 PM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathers
Lets say I'm playing a warrior. My friend is a squishy magic user. We are attacked by two Orcs. One of the Orcs rushes into combat with me. The other one goes around and attacks my friend.

General caster protection schemes in place in my current fantasy campaign.

1. Get them before they can get you. For fighters this most often means high damage attacks possibly enhanced with Targeted Attack, magical and Weapon Master bonuses. Add in Rapid Strike at appropriate level of power. For mages, first screw up as many as possible. Using Flash so they're all at -3 DX is good. Then finish off with efficient damaging spells like Flame Jet or Shocking Touch all extended by your Staff.

2. Stand more than 1 average Move behind the fighters. Flying or Levitating can help too.

3. Iron Arm or Blink at 16+

4. DR from leather armor with moderate magical enhancements or just go all magical when you've got enough money.

Phoenix_Dragon 07-10-2008 08:17 PM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
First off, no matter how good a warrior you are, if you're outnumbered, they can get past you. The mage will want some protection from this inevitability. A staff in defensive grip is a good start, and quite fitting for a mage. Armor is also a good idea, just make sure there isn't so much that he's too encumbered by it.

As for the warrior, you have to change tactics if you're trying to keep people away from the mage. Wait is your friend. Specify that you're attacking the first one to try to get past you, and then do so. You can also use the Trip technique from MA, which lets you use a parry to trip someone passing through your hex or an adjacent hex. It can be very effective at stopping people, if done right, but it also costs you a parry. If you're really nice, your GM might even allow an armed version.

In any case, your roll switches from being an offensive killing machine, to being a wall of sharp steel. Many people have this tendancy to automatically go for the most agressive options in this situation, hoping to kill the enemy quickly, but if that doesn't work (And it often doesn't), then they've failed in protecting their companion. Holding your attacks, taking a defensive approach, and punishing anyone who tries to get by you is the way to go, and it can be very effective. Imagine one orc running up and bashing on your shield, while the other goes to run past you at the mage. Not only does he suddenly find a foot tripping him up and sending him to the ground, but he then recieves a held-back thrust into his back on the way down. Between the -4 for being on the ground (Or in this case, falling to the ground) and -2 for a side attack, he's not likely to defend. Even if he doesn't fall, it's still a side attack. One or two examples of this, and people are going to be very cautious about bypassing you.

But really, your best bet is to find a chokepoint like a doorway or narrow hall, where you can completely prevent them from bypassing you and getting to the mage. You can focus on being a meatgrinder while the mage is free to do whatever he wants... Which is hopefully helping you, of course.

Crakkerjakk 07-10-2008 08:30 PM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon
Wait is your friend. Specify that you're attacking the first one to try to get past you, and then do so.

It's especially helpful to aim for the legs when your wait is triggered by the guy trying to get around you. Crippling a leg is a good way to ensure that the orc can't get to your caster.

Kromm 07-10-2008 08:32 PM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Flying or Levitating can help too.

Yep. I've never seen a seriously squishy wizard without spells like that, although Walk on Air is more popular due to FP cost.

Feathers 07-10-2008 08:35 PM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
Thank you. This thread has been most enlightening. I am still trying to shake off the D&D mindset as you can tell I'm sure.

Witchking 07-10-2008 10:50 PM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathers
Thank you. This thread has been most enlightening. I am still trying to shake off the D&D mindset as you can tell I'm sure.

The wizard should be able to take care of himself, unless intentionally designed to be "incompetent" at combat.

Spells obviously. Just one or two will do. There are the obvious defensive ones and fairly obvious damage ones. Depending on the specialities of the mage there are also spells like Mental Stun (Mind Control), Rooted Feet (Body Control, Movement?), Darkness (Light/Darkness), any of the Illusion College can be used to buy time nicely, etc, etc...Really almost every College has a few (execpt Enchantment, Knowledge, and Meta).

Weapons Skills. Remember you don't have to be a "Great Warrior" 1 or 2 points in a weapon (Staff is particularly good +2 to parries) should get you to about 12 base skill (Staff that would give you a parry of 10). Since you are merely trying to survive until the warrior can help out no reason not to Parry and Retreat (or Dodge and Retreat if you are particullarly fast) that gets your Parry up to 11, that is a 55% chance to make it. If you want to attack instead of cascting spells your theoretical skill of 12 will give you a 60% chance to hit IIRC, you might even do damage. If you feel that isn't enough defense you can skip attacking, go AoD (Parry then Dodge if needed). Even if you get Hit once with a little Armor it will hurt, but you will likely still be concious. If you do get knocked unconcious you should survive so long as a few people took first aid.

My current character is a mage, has Staff skill of 12 (funny that) and Leather Armor for DR 2. I have a good mix of spells. I have been shot by a ST 15 crossbow at middling range 30ish hexes. I lucked out (I think the GM rolled a 1 for the damage 1d+5) and took 8 pts after armor (HT 10) wasn't stunned but did fall down. Stayed in the combat (casting spells) and took out one bandit later. In a totally different melee I was alone at first and was attacked by 2 Guards and a noble. I dodged and retreated once (successfully) then Cast Armor at the max +5 DR (9 FP at skill 15) to bring my total DR to 7. I focused on casting damage spells at the noble. After the guards bounced a few attacks off me they started going all out for +2 dam, the rest of the party showed up and we won.

Biggest thing for a Mage is to have a Plan. At character creation you should have a few ideas about what you Plan to do in combat (even if you are not playing a "battle mage") and if you didn't build a battle mage, after a little while as an "adventurer" he will start learning, unless disadvantages/mental defects prevent him...

Good Luck

Phantasm 07-10-2008 10:57 PM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
A Defensive Attack with the defense bonus option is probably a good idea when a dedicated caster has to get into melee, as are spells such as Armor and Shield, which grant DR and a defense bonus, respectively.

Also, don't forget the number of blocking spells which can be cast as a defense once per turn.

talonthehand 07-10-2008 11:00 PM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchking
Weapons Skills. Remember you don't have to be a "Great Warrior" 1 or 2 points in a weapon (Staff is particularly good +2 to parries) should get you to about 12 base skill (Staff that would give you a parry of 10). Since you are merely trying to survive until the warrior can help out no reason not to Parry and Retreat (or Dodge and Retreat if you are particullarly fast) that gets your Parry up to 11, that is a 55% chance to make it. If you want to attack instead of cascting spells your theoretical skill of 12 will give you a 60% chance to hit IIRC, you might even do damage. If you feel that isn't enough defense you can skip attacking, go AoD (Parry then Dodge if needed). Even if you get Hit once with a little Armor it will hurt, but you will likely still be concious. If you do get knocked unconcious you should survive so long as a few people took first aid.
Good Luck

A few problems with your math here. First, a skill level of 12 in staff gives you a parry of 11 (skill/2 + 3 +2). Next, rolling against an 11 is a 62.5% chance, and rolling against a 12 is 74.1%. All of which reinforce your overall point though, so no worries.

[Edit] You may have been thinking of rolling a D20, where 11 gives you 55% and 12 gives you 60.

Lord Carnifex 07-10-2008 11:10 PM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
Another approach is to give yourselves some distance between the fighter and the mage - enough that an orc can't get by the fighter and close with the mage in one turn. If everything works out right, the fighter can wheel and catch orc#2 in the back before orc#2 reaches the mage.

Remember that if orc#1 (the one who engaged the fighter) has already attacked for his turn, he doesn't get any sort of AoO when the fighter disengages.

This tactic works best if the fighter is built for speed and skill - he's likely to have to take a Move and Attack manuver. Some decent reach on the weapon would help - a rapier or similar might be best here.

whswhs 07-11-2008 12:26 AM

Re: How to protect casters?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathers
Lets say I'm playing a warrior. My friend is a squishy magic user. We are attacked by two Orcs. One of the Orcs rushes into combat with me. The other one goes around and attacks my friend. Except for using a ready Reach weapon I don't see how I can stop anyone from getting by me. Is there some mechanic like Threating or Opportunity Attacks that I am missing?

Really, you should have enough people to form a line between the mage and the orcs. One mage and one fighter isn't an optimal ratio.

Bill Stoddard


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