Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

You don't understand. If instead of negating the Unfamiliarity Penalty, we give positive TDMs, then this should apply not only to familiar vehicles, but to familiar bodies too. And in this sense, a normal human would get +4, while a body-hopping infomorph wouldn't (I'm mentioning infomorphs so that nobody tries saying that acrobatics cannot be used with an unfamiliar body, and thus doesn't have such modifiers).

So we basically get the silly bonus instead of negating a penalty.

Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

Not really, the baseline is with the expectation that you are operating your own familiar body, so your base numbers already have all the bonuses for familiarity built in.

Now if you're saying that Possessors like telepaths, spirits, infomorphs and other fantasy staples should have harsher familiarity penalties when taking over a body, I won't really argue beyond pointing out that fantasy elements aren't exactly going to be limited by their lack of plausibility.

Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

Which is precisely why GURPS has nonfamiliarity penalties, though judging from the existing penalties (-2 for unfamiliar drive system, -4 for unfamiliar subtype), an unfamiliar specific vehicle (or general layout) probably isn't more than a -1 unfamiliarity penalty at GURPS' resolution. Though I suppose some people might qualify for an Equipment Bond (a generalization of Weapon Bond) with their own personal car, for a +1 over base skill.

Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

All GURPS skills (including Driving) presume familiarity, hence the explicit penalties for lacking it and the rules for eliminating those penalties.

Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

Note that in 4e Possession no longer causes penalties for DX. Nor does Acrobatics have a penalty for unfamiliar body. And there's no reason to suspect that while Acrobatics assumes a familiar body, Driving does not assume a familiar vehicle.

But even if we assume that such familiarity bonuses apply only to non-movement skills, we still have to give out the same bonuses to combat Mecha pilots, Gunners, Swordsmen, Surgeons and everybody else. You're trying to make car driving special, which just goes against the way the system works.

Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

Reading some of this discussion has convinced me that penalties are being applied way too heavily here. Consider this: per RAW, there's only a -2 difference between the typical compact sedan and a tour bus, yet some of you are tossing in a -4 unfamiliarity penalty just for driving a different kind of car (admittedly, that's in the RAW too, but I don't buy it).

Come to think of it, I can't think of any situation where a -4 is justified for using equipment similar enough to what you're used to that it doesn't require a different skill or specialization (with its own default relationship) to use.

Anyway, I don't think the teenager who's watched Mom drive all these years, but hasn't done it themselves, is struggling with a -4 on top of their already pathetic Driving default. Honestly, if they did, they'd probably get killed. Average DX is 9-10 at 15 years old, -5 for default, -4 for unfamiliarity, +4 for ordinary driving tasks.. with effective skill 4-5, they'll be failing rolls nonstop and it's almost inevitable that one or more kids in the class will roll a 15+ and wrap that thing around a pole or run it into a ditch. The poor teachers would never be able to get insurance! It's probably -2 at worst, maybe even -1 because they've been watching how Mom handles the car all this time. And if you're one of the -2 people, you get the easy practice at first, like driving around an empty parking lot (probably +10, since it's almost impossible to screw up in any meaningful way) or quiet residential streets (+5 or better).

Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

If your "familiar" enough with a car to get bonuses when using it, you got an Equipment Bond perk... And if comparing to EB, giving multiple plusses for familiarity seems rather excessive, don't you think?

Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

I'd say that beyond the -2 for unfamiliar type of car, there might be arguement for a -1 for a different model which is easily gotten rid of by driving it for a short while, and most drivers would probably have equipment bond with their own car.

Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

By the RAW, the unfamiliarity penalty would also apply to interspecialty defaults, unless you've spent the amount of time needed to eliminate the unfamiliarity penalty, so there is really probably a -6 difference between the compact sedan and the tour bus.

And people tend to learn to drive under close supervision, doing tasks that GURPS would give a +5 or better TDM, and often initially in isolated locations where the consequences of failure are greatly mitigated. But this also doesn't take as long as it would take to get 1 point of skill in GURPS. That initial training mostly, in GURPS terms, is eliminating at least some of the unfamiliarity penalties.

Re: old theme - What exactly is default?
 

It seems that there is quite large scale for these rules. I put together example of driving. As driving a car sounded clear and easy to explain. But if others skills come in play for example the omni-present Survival skills situation gets more complicated as I could surely come up something when I have to survive in local area enviroment, but in mountins, deserts...

In the end. All that GURPS players and GMs need to relate to are numbers. For example if skill 12 gets -8 penalty and no bonus players has to understand that making it work would be a miracle.

GM needs little more to explain then to set the penalty and say...its difficult.

Few weeks back I was trying to come up with a complete list of posible condition modifiers - from bad lighting to unfamiliarity. I never come to an end. So I guess its very likely to preprepare most situations especialy new GMs and new Players whant to try in system that could simulate reality so closely. But...

Is there any conclusion on how GM could set numbers without studing in detail every factor? Penalty -1 seems to loose it power, but if we look closely the -1 could have several modifiers like +4 for rutine task, +2 for equipment, -3 for haste, -4 for bad lighting....


Finaly could anybody who posted here for some time summarise his own point?