The Low Tech You want
 

Of the 3ed Tech books my favourite was Low Tech. I even when so far as to use if for a history assignment at uni. I'm quite enthusiastic about a 4e version. What do you want to see in the updated low tech?

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

TL4. They took TL4 away from HT!

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Most gamers would expect Low Tech to have full plate armor, and that is solidly in TL4. It darn well better have that.

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I love full plate, early firearms and the rest of TL4 so much that I actually want a (PDF release?) GURPS: Renaissance.

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Mostly, I miss the customization rules for melee weapons. I know that MA has them, but I think the old low tech had better and more detailed versions. That's what I want to see.

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Isn't there a weapon design system way out on the pipeline for e23? I know that they avoided that section from vehicles for the new VDS still in production.

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Do you have to ask? Good rules for how characters can create Fine and Very Fine weapons, influenced by the TL of the character's skill (since TL3 ironworking is obviously better than TL2, and TL4 is better again).

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TL already affects item quality through starting wealth and income. A Struggling weaponsmith at TL2 produces less monetary value of items than a TL4 weaponsmith. I'm actually against TL-based penalties to skill use, as it looks like an innate penalty attached to a skill (since you normally don't have the option of buying up TL for it).

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

When Sean and I discussed the rules we included in MA, he specifically made a deeper, fuller version of them a requirement for Low-Tech. Low-Tech was just a discussion item at that point, but he felt (and I agreed) that MA needed some bare-bones rules but that Low-Tech was the place to really explore the topic. So that's why you've got some of it in Martial Arts - enough for combo weapons, etc. and enough to save us a lot of space elsewhere in Chapter 6. But the rest will come later, based on our previous discussions.

I don't expect that would have changed.


Me, I want Low-Tech to be for low-tech stuff what Martial Arts is for kicking ass. Sounds kinda self-serving and egotistical maybe but I really think we nailed the target dead-center, and I'd like Low-Tech to have that same kind of impact. Something you don't need until you look at it and realize "Whoa, my game will rock on toast with this stuff at my fingertips!"

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We play in a Renaissance setting. That would be cool.

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Maybe some information on early agriculture? While it may not be the most exciting field it was very relevant to the people of the time.

Information on horses, elephants and other such mounts as vehicles.

As grizzly as it may seem, some information on the dangers of childbirth and survivability since it was one of the huge shaping forces on human culture in those times.

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Actually, all sorts of day-to-day differences between TLs 1&2, 2&3, 3&4. When I read the old LT, I could figure what's the big deal between TL3 and its neighbors, aside from weapons.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

To start with I want it to keep the Low-Tech name (or something similar) not Fantasy Tech. I wouldn't mind to seeing a chapter on enhancing weapons using magical enchantment but that's not the primary need in this book. However, folks at Steve Jackson Games maintain that if the book even has fantasy in the title it will sell much better.

I want to see a wide range of weapons, armor, and technology covered from TL0 to TL4. With 200+ pages to work with I'm sure they'll be able to put a lot of material in the book - covering all the old stuff and adding lots of new stuff. I don't think the TL4 stuff that was covered in High-Tech 3e should be more than 20 pages or so.

I definitely want to see coverage for things like light sources - from candles and torches to lanterns and gas-lights (if they were introduced by TL4). I want to see lots of stuff on vehicles and animal handling as it pertains to transportation. Guidelines on making tools, armor, weapons etc. Stuff regarding selling and trading things.

I also want lots of illustrations. An index for the illustrations in similar fashion to GURPS Martial Arts would be great also.

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Low-Tech is almost as bad a name as GURPS. Maybe Historical Tech or something like it.

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I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that. Just doing gunpowder weapons might take up 20 pages.

Bill Stoddard

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

But it fits into the row: Ultra, High, Low, I think, I would like it als Low Tech

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Low-Tech fits logically into the same series as High-Tech, and it's established by precedent. So likely you're stuck with it. "Historical Tech" would be a really bad name; after all, the Napoleonic era and World War II and even the fall of the Soviet Union are now history, so "Historical Tech" would include everything up to early TL8.

If I were titling the books, I might take inspiration from the title "Ultra-Tech" and call the book we're talking about "Infra-Tech" (and "Visible Tech" for the era in between). But I have an arcane sense of humor.

Bill Stoddard

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Well, I hope it doesn't require 20 pages just for the gunpowder weapons. If so than their might be a big problem. I'd think the book would be 256 pages just like High-Tech. GURPS Low-Tech was 128 pages so there's lots of room for additional material, but given the need to add TL4 and the desire to add fantasy elements (whatever that may entail) will add up to significant page count.

I'd definitely like to see illustrations along the lines of Martial Arts, and not just for weapons. I'd want to see this for equipment also, especially stuff may not be as well known.

Maybe there isn't that much more than gunpowder weapons for TL4 but I'd think that gunpowder weapons would consume less than half the page count needed to cover TL4. Certainly want to avoid the GURPS High-Tech 3e issue of being GURPS Guns Plus.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I am just saying that Low-tech sounds bad. I am not sure what I would call it but that name stinks.

How about Early-tech?

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More than anything else, I want to see updated armour technologies, specifically TL 4 steel plate--complete with improved game statistics (better DR, lower weight)--included in GURPS Low-Tech 4th Edition.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Thanks for the insight!

Another reason to keep going *g*

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They what!?! Well that's just f%$ing s^%&*. What kind of vehicles do they think people mainly want to design for gaming???

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I tend to design vehicles for two things.

Primarily, I want them as locations. I want to set an adventure ON a Mississippi riverboat, or a Titanic-style ocean liner.

And secondarily, when worldbuilding, I want to know what sort of transport and communications systems there are so that I can maintain plausability.

Back to Low-Tech. I want everything in the 3e version. I want TL4, with no more attention to gunpowder than necessary. I want the TL0-4 parts of GURPS Economies. Informed discussion of Fantasy tech would be nice - especially if Bill Stoddard has an urge to expand upon that aspect of his work in GURPS Fantasy. And then I want more of it all.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

As part of the discussion on economies, I'd like side-bars that provide information about the impact of magic on crop yields, infant mortality, and disease rates, with a round-up of how that likely would affect general patterns of production, trade and settlement.

Actually, I'd like to see a 256-page book devoted to that, with some campaign ideas tossed in. But that'll never happen, so I'm trying to be realistic.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Because we added TL8. In 3e, "high-tech" was TL4-7 (four TLs); in 4e, it's TL5-8 (still four TLs). With apologies to those who like ancient cultures, all their tech would fit in a thimble next to what exists at the high-tech end of things, so when the TL advanced by one, we stretched out the low-tech end, because it was more likely to fit in a book still.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Huh? There was a brief period where we considered merging TL0-4 with magical "tech," but we decided against that some time ago.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Realistic armor.

Armor customization rules. Specifically, what to do to give extra protection to the vitals, neck and groin.

Some details on what would be considered Fine/Very Fine armor.

A jobs table (a few pages' worth) so that GM's have some guidance on how much money PCs can make in the downtime between 'adventures'.

Notes on what modern people take for granted that do not apply to the bad old days.

Some guidance on how long it takes for craftsmen types to create goods.

Details on what weapons are appropriate to what TLs (of course).

A nod given to the fact that most of the people playing in low-tech settings play in low-tech fantasy settings.

edit: ...and please don't focus on Europe.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Or at least low-tech adventure settings. I would say that High-Tech's content balance is about right: lots of weapons, a fair bit of armor, and the rest dedicated to expedition gear, spy-tech, medical kit for patching up after the fight, a few vehicles for adventurers, and tools that enable skill use. The day-to-day life of John Q. Public will get a nod in boxes and the occasional non-adventuring item (High-Tech has this feature as well), but it won't be a focus.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Something I'd like to see is a section on how life really was different for people living in these TLs. I'd love to see something that would tell players how they need to think of this aspect of their characters. People come into a game with a lot of assumptions, and sometimes, player characters come off as Yankee Salesmen in King Arthur's Court. If there was something that I could give to my players ahead of time to let them know what some of the social expectations will be and what sorts of limits that the technology impose, I'd be happy with that.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I want something like the first Low Tech, only longer ;). We already have Martial Arts for a big-book-o-swords, for example, so we don't need very much space for weapons rules ... except for the guns.

Agreed about the need for good armouring and smithing rules which make Fine and Very Fine swords easier to make at high TLs with full equipment. You might even be able to fit in a sidebar about skill modifiers for making low-tech stuff at high TLs (lots of amateurs can do serviceable TL 2-3 cobbling, armouring, or whatever today because they have good tools, reference books, pre-made materials, etc.)

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I'd laugh at that one.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Horses. Lots of horses. Breeds, cost to obtain, maintain. Realistic and Epic travel distances. How feed, fodder, and "breakdowns" will affect travel. Slow and fast speeds for horseback or camelback travel. Nearly every fantasy epic has this stuff as background, from just transport to fighting while mounted with hand weapons to lances and pistols and cavalry charges - still done at least once, I believe, in WWI, and certainly through TL5 like the US Civil War and the Crimea.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

From this point of view, more detailed equipment quality rules would be fun if not only pertaining to weapons and armor, but there for everything. Every time a PC buys something new, the GM can, VERY optionally, assume the skill of the craftsman and his equipment, make a quick skill roll, and instantly have something to say about each item. maybe there's an aesthetic flaw which can be used to reduce the price but doesn't change quality, or a non-visible flaw that might actually make the object one quality level lower...but charged for the higher price, etc.

Again, optional, but one of the actual BENEFITS of high TLs is quality control and inspection, so having the stuff on the shelf be pretty darn variable would be fun.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

OOh I like that

Was just thinking the other day how most fantasy settings have markets that seem cut and paste

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I definitely want statistics for black powder matchlock and wheel-lock firearms, pistols and long-arms. The flintlocks in High-Tech were a good start, but I've got a setting which hasn't invented the flintlock yet - wheel-locks are standard.

I also echo the call for different armor weights; preferably for full suits of armor and individual pieces.

One other item should be "daily life in the rural area" and "daily life in the city" for all tech levels. City life in TL 0 is definitely different from TL 2, and both are different from life at TL 4.

One of the things I liked about Low-Tech for 3e was that it was essentially broken down by tech level, not by category like 4e's High-Tech and Ultra-Tech are. I'd love to see that format carried over to 4e's Low-Tech.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I don't think this is a very accurate description. You changed TL ranges. Year 1990 was TL7 back then, now it's TL8. I felt that the turn of millenium was a good moment to change TLs. Back then, I was kinda proud we reached TL8, felt a 'digital' sense of progress. Now I feel cheated like a child running for the horizon.

(Reminds me: I was born in the previous millenium, in a country which no longer exists.)

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Spoken like someone who didn't actually work on the book. Believe me, TL5-8 in 4e have every bit the technological range that TL4-7 did in 3e. The 3e edition of High-Tech choose to ignore much of its range, while the 4e edition actually paid attention to it, which meant that a lot of stuff that was brushed under the carpet to make things fit into 128 pages expanded into major word count in the 4e version.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

We need the things ordinary travellers have to deal with in a low-tech society...accomadations, travel methods and times, things like that. Riding with a caravan is slower, yet has advantages...how fast will they be moving?
What sort of food can be preserved for journeys? And how heavy is it?
All the things that are so important when the trip isn't across town, or stepping through the teleportal, but when you're using feet, wheels, or wind (or even steam)

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I mean that the 'addition' of TL8 is not quite a true addition, as 4e TL8 stuff basically is TL7 by 3e standards. I don't claim that TLs 5-8 in 4e are smaller than 4-7 in 3e. I'm claiming that 4e pushed a half-TL (20 years out of 45 belonging to TL8, IIRC) into the range which was initially occupied by TLs 4-7. The 'Special Year' was pushed from 2000 to 2025. Now we have 25 years of tech which is neither HT nor UT. I know it's purely subjective, but still it leaves a feeling of a minor loss.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

3e Low Tech is a great read as is. To make it worth while to update, I'd think it'd need to be beefier in the settings department.

Maybe:
a chapter addressing low-"punk" settings (as in Bronze Age punk) and rules would be decent.

worked examples of survival, warlord/tyrant, merchant, and politician
centered campaigns.

some of the location specific flavor of the relevant 3e setting books (China, Egypt, etc..)

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

That's such an awesome character set up.

"...I was born some time in the last millenium - in a country that doesn't exist... " *appearing in theatres this fall*

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

You didn't understand. It's not a funny character idea, but a true part of my biography (or many other people's, for that matter).

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I assume you mean the U.S.S.R. But wasn't that kind of like ancient Rome with one section being much more powerful than the others? I tend to think of those as hegemonies rather than true nations.
Still I would hazard to bet that everyone posting here was born in the last millenium. Do we have any eight year olds?

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Well, bash.org.ru originally posted it as 'in a CITY that no longer exists', which might sound more dramatic, though IMO the best effect is achieved by combining the two.
The city in question seems to be Leningrad. Even my T9 doesn't recognize the word.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

It IS a great lead-in...
Now we just need a script.Seven.

heh

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Some weapons, but I do think the detail of the weapons in MA means that LT wouldn't need HT quantity of weapons.

Info on ancient coins and low tech economics (Think things like the short crash course on agrigarian trade networks in Fantasy, and the discussions on these forums about non-market economies in the ancient world, gift economies, and the like)

Ancient ways of getting modern-sounding effects. Info on Roman central heating, and how it worked. The various building methods. Ancient fortification designs, and how they stat up in GURPS, there are a variety of castle designs out there, afterall, each with differing strengths and weaknesses, and to my mind a book on LT should absolutely mention them, and definitely should have info on left handed and right handed staircases (The handedness of a spiral staircase, iirc, is based on defending down it (the traditional right handed staircase is designed so that a defender, who's fighting downwards, has his right hand unobstructed, while an attacker, fighting upwards, is somewhat restricted due to the construction of the castle, assuming both are right handed. One of the castle towers in Conway Castle is left handed, though, so the concept of designing a castle tower to be left handed isn't unheard of)) And I definitely don't want this to just focus on European history and fortification designs, but I don't have a clue about non-European ones so my examples of the sort of thing I want info about are taken from memories of high school history.

Living conditions would probably be useful, like UT's habitat info, as would travel times and technologies. And for those low tech Gadgeteers, info on how various ancient civilisations invented various forms of useful things such as the steam engine and treated them as toys and trinkets. When and where knowledge of such was known about but dismissed as impractical would be useful.

Also, some basics on ancient forms of cryptography and steganography would be nice, as would the date when musical notation was invented in various parts of the world, as with the discovery of the number 0.

No Fantasy technology, no punk technology, etc. There has to be enough info on low tech civilisations to fill a ~250 page book. I want Fantasy Tech [A book detailing magic as technology, magitech, etc, what TLs can be approximated via what spells, designs for the sort of technology you get in the non-sci-fiesque Final Fantasy games, and the like] and Weird Tech (Either apart or together, depending on page counts), but I don't want FT in LT anymore than I'd have wanted WT [My conception of Weird Tech being steam punk, clock punk, etc.] in HT. (If combined maybe call it Alternate Tech?)

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Does that mean that the name will remain Low-Tech or something similar with no chance of a name like Fantasy-Tech? I just remember folks indicating how import it was to go with a name that indicated "fantasy" elements and that it meant way more sales. I'm glad to hear if that is not the case and Low-Tech (or similar title) will be used for the book.

Almost as good news as Technomancer not having the title Techno-Magic (or something very similar) which was very close to happening during the latter stages of playtest. It would have made for a very bad title. Finally someone actually asked to ensure the conflict on the names would raise legal issues and permission to use the Technomancer title was obtained.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I don't know about this. I think its reasonable to expect Low-Tech to cover period weapons in about the same detail as High Tech and Ultra Tech cover their periods. MA only has 23 pages of actual weapon stats and descriptions, so I don't think its unreasonable to expand that somewhat and cover both the weapons presented in MA as well as additional weapons in greater depth. What I'm trying to say is that while I'm going to own both, if someone wants to run a TL3 game they shouldn't have to pick up both MA and Low Tech to get the relevant equipment stats for that period.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I started playing GURPS in 4th edition, so I haven't had a chance to look too closely at the 3e version of Low Tech, but here's what I'd like to see:

1) Travel times for various vehicles in terms of per second (for combat), per hour (short-range travel), and per day (long-range travel). These days, Google maps says that a ride from Boston to Philadelphia would take 5.5 hours. Though, even as late as TL5 it would take days to get from one town to the other.

2) Chainmail. I was rather disappointed that I couldn't find chainmail in the basic set, but really what I want is details on all sorts of armor.

3) Information on how life was different due to the difference in technology.

4) Whatever I may have overlooked for adventuring.

Also, while I haven't done so yet, I'm interested in running historical games (ie not fantasy) so a Low Tech dedicated to fantasy wouldn't really work for me. On the other hand, an e23 supplement called Fantasy Tech that builds on Low Tech for use in fantasy settings sounds like something I'd buy.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Chainmail is on page B283-B284. Mail Hauberk, Mail Shirt, Double Mail Hauberk, Mail Leggings, Mail Sleeves, and Mail Coif. No stats for mail gloves or shoes, but there is enough to coat the rest of your body in mail.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

No I understand. And I didn't say it was funny, said it was awesome.

Not "awesome dude" but like "hm inspiring."

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

All I want are historical weights for armor... all armor. I don't care if it's just a side-bar, or if it's a whole chapter on how to ajust weights and other game elements accordingly. The "I can barely move!" armored knights simply crap up our historical games.
Hell, I'll settle for a footnote. Just aknowledge and correct this.

For the rest, I hope to see the high-quality stuff of 3e Low-Tech (wich I happily own) taken a step further and updated to 4e. Otherwise, not much in my wish list... but this will be a certain buy for me.

Cheers.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

When I said 'not as much detail as HT' I was meaning 'about as much detail as UT'. As in, I'd expect, partially due to MA, LT to only need the ~60 pages on weapons that UT has compared to the ~120 pages on weapons HT has.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I want 256 pages filled with interesting stuff, and help with find said interesting stuff in the book.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

For that much detail, Bestiary would be a more likely title.

Bill Stoddard

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I'd like a "making things" section in all the X-Tech books. Or maybe an e23 "GURPS - Forge". My PC's have a habit of learning crafty and buildy type skills. Every campaign there's at least one of 'em. I'd like a better idea of how long it takes to make things the tools required, and the expense of crafting them yourself.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I'd like to see some cross over with Martial Arts, the appendix in high tech was really cool.

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Erk. You may be right. HT and UT didn't spend much time on transport, so I could see LT not doing so either. Still, it would be nice to have on the order of a few pages of solid text and sidebar on using horses (both from a PC and GM point of view) in the game.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

The technology would fit in fine, no problem. The breeding of horses deserves a note as a form of technological advance, from the ponies of TL1 to the riding horses of TL2 to the somewhat taller and heavier horses of TL3. But detailed lists of breeds, going beyond what's already in the Basic Set, belong in a book about animals, not one about gadgets.

Bill Stoddard

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Second the motion. One thing that truly irritates me is the obviously incorrect armor weights in 4e Basic.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Not likely. GURPS Martial Arts already has low-tech martial arts. High-Tech included its appendix to cover stuff we couldn't cover in Martial Arts, partly from a different focus but also because you'd need High Tech to make it useful! Low-Tech wouldn't really have anything to add in the way of martial arts that wouldn't have just fallen under the umbrella of MA already.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Well, you never know. There might be new weapons there that immediately suggest Perks or Techniques to make use of them or something similar. Or, if Low-Tech military technology and methods is covered in some detail, there might be room for a style or two that didn't make it into Martial Arts.

An Appendix like High-Tech had could easily be put together without being off-topic.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

But not without it being MORE on-topic for a separate e23 book just centered on those styles. Guns were off-topic for MA but on-topic for High-Tech, so the crossover made sense. Low-tech weapons were on-topic for Martial Arts, so if we needed them for a "missed" style we just included them. It would stand alone better than it would as a chapter shoved into Low-Tech, which I expect will elicit cries of "you left this out!" more than "you should have included some martial arts."

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Seperate e23 books are all to the good. How fast can you write some? ;)

Doesn't really matter what you want to focus on, either. Anything expanding on Martial Arts is welcome.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Apparently, not quickly. I've churned out of a number of Pyramid articles, but e23 books to the Martial Arts level of accuracy and research are just too time consuming. It's not something I can do in bits and pieces as time comes up in my schedule, but Pyramid articles can be.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I still think that TL0 should have been divided into two when we had the chance...

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

That's one of the things I like about Lands Out of Time: they way they divided TL0 into early, middle, and late.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

<scrunch> But it still would have been zero.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

There's always the possibility of negative TLs to represent really primitive technologies.

By the current RAW, that one tribe of chimpanzees that uses spears to hunt is at the same TL as the society depicted in the movie 10,000 B.C. - clearly a discrepancy. Now, if we accept the "late stone age" as TL 0, the "middle stone age" could be TL -1, "early stone age" as TL -2, and "pre-stone age" (like the modern-day chimpanzees) as TL -3.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

But the rules alredy recognize advancements within a TL. If you were going to cut TL0 up like that, it seems even more justifiable to expand the TL list back to 3E levels, or longer... not a good idea, IMO.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I would like to see some changes on siege weapons. On Low Tech 3e they are too powerful. More powerful than some spaceship's lasers. And maybe some rules to try to do some cinematic things like... use a catapult to hit a dragon, a person... to use a human corpse as ammo...

I would like to see all stuff presented on the TV show "Ancient Discoveries" of History Channel. The Macedonian's siege tower would be great! The very first tank, moved by thousands of men... sweet.

I would like to see ancient ships too. At least a trireme.

I don´t want to see Fantasy Tech, magic or TL 5. MAYBE it could describe some rituals made before battle but never more than that. If you want to change book´s name, how about something like "Ancient Tech"?

And sorry my English.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I agree. The difference between Paleolithic and Neolithic is as big as the difference between TL2 and TL5. Lumping both into one TL is pretty arbitrary. If it was essential to keep "the age of networked small computers" as TL8, then I would have pushed TL3 and TL2 together; it's really hard to see them as different in terms of fundamental technologies. Except for some late-TL3 technologies that are really "early TL4," like the first gunpowder weapons.

Bill Stoddard

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Yes. We said so well over a year ago in these forums.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Which doesn't change the fact that the official Forum designation will continue to be GURPS Cabaret Chicks on Ice.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Alternately, you could consider the neolithic part of TL1, bronze isn't really all that important a transition compared to the agriculture and pottery often lumped into the neolithic.

I'm tempted to call gunpowder a TL5 innovation showing up way too early - conversion of chemical energy to work through combustion after all. It certainly isn't hard to believe Earth's TL is often advanced in a science (weaponry), right in character for humans really. Hm, if you look for the TL breaks ignoring military equipment TL3/4 and 6/7 look a lot more doubtful.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Mmmm. If you allow for some of the advanced stone working techniques, and smelted copper to Early TL1, and perhaps nudge bronze to mid TL 1, that works. Actually, I rather like that. It makes the TL2 horse nomads using well-crafted flint tools only retarded one TL in materials technology (and even then only in one area of materials tech, potentially).

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I would certainly buy that idea the TL0/1 boundary has always seemed fairly fuzzy. It does seem make sense to use the transition to agriculture rather than the smelting of metals as the break point.

I don't think that these changes are really comparable, while the TL3/4 and 6/7 boundaries are some what fuzzy they do represent changes beyond just military technology. Take the improvements Maritime technology at TL4 or the appearance of complex electronics at TL7. Ok so these are gradual changes occurring over decades rather than sudden catastrophic changes and yes they were driven in part be military pressures but the same could be said for TL4/5 and 5/6. The lines are roughly where they ought to be based upon European experience.

As for gunpowder being TL5 this is absurd, while gunpowder devices follow the same broad principles as later combustion engines the actual technology to exploit it is orders of magnitude simpler. You can produce fire lances erruptors and crude rockets and cannon (which might not seem that crude if you try to copy them) with materials and techniques substantially less complex than say a use-full steam engine. The use of crude powder as an incendiary requires even less.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

The 4/5 divide is, I think, one of the more defensible ones. The 18th century sees the spectacularly visible rise of steam power and the less visible but equally important Agricultural Revolution.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

I didn't say that it was in anyway indefensible. I did however suggest that the changes occurred over an extended period of time and that the precise break point is ultimately rather subjective, which were amongst the arguments being used against the TL3/4 and 6/7 boundaries.

Re: The Low Tech You want
 

Honestly, the difference between early and late Stone Age is pretty much as great as the difference between any two adjacent GURPS TLs you might care to name. Well, TL4 to 5 might have it beat...