Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

If you insist on having it, consider a spell that binds spirits to the weapons and design the spirits so they have powers which when used through the item function like spells.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Ultimately, what's going on here is me establishing a baseline for what PCs in a DF campaign can have and do, so that DF is more a game than a storytelling exercise or a soap opera, and so that DF PCs can be compared and even ported between campaigns. I think that GURPS tends to lack that, so I'm trying to inject it for gamers who want it. Enchantment is an NPC job because equipment with miraculous abilities has at best a shaky balance against innate abilities in GURPS, and allowing PCs to make magic items invites a new sort of abuse that depends heavily on what a particular GM decides to permit.

Beyond that, I just like the idea that delvers delve in order to get stuff they can't make or buy. It restores some of the mystique to a genre that spent the past 20 years or so stripped to its undies, tarted up, and parked under a streetlight in heels.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

I consider it roughly equivelent to starting a game where you tell players "You can use anything, from any GURPS book. No restrictions on anything at all, go nuts."

Yes, it can work, but your odds of everyone being happy with the results (including the GM) depend heavily on all the players being mature and co-operative.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Hm. By this logic, permitting PC 'enchantment' in the form of creating Gadgets with character points isn't any more abusive than any other way of buying new advantages, and thus seems like it might be acceptable in a game. How do you feel about that sort of enchantment, or do objects like that not fit your internal sense of what a magic item ought to be?

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Gadgeteer with the magical connotation is exactly how I would describe the Artificer class. They aren't really mages, but make items better by fiddling with them and some of that fiddling comes from their imbuing or whatever you call it.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Of course, that balance can be just as easily shaken by what the GM decides to leave lying around the dungeon or available for sale in the local magic shop.

Of course, but my preferred solution would keep them delving. Let PCs learn Enchantment spells, and once they've started building a stronghold, tower, workshop, whatever (i.e., they've got a nice bundle of accumulated treasure), let them create enchanted items they've got the spells for in anything from a couple days to a couple weeks, depending on how much downtime the other character types are willing to tolerate - if the fighters want to train up some skills for a couple weeks, there might be more time, for example. Don't worry about energy costs, except as a basis for item costs.

Then, apply the Getting Stuff Cheap rules, spend the money less whatever discount you're able to get, and the item is created. The money went towards special ingredients, assistants, whatever; don't sweat the details.

That's for items you don't mind the PC enchanter churning out whenever needed - maybe a couple of Scrolls, replacing a Staff, etc. For anything that you *don't* want them making for themselves, for example items that wouldn't be available for sale in the local magic shop either, make it more difficult. There are several ways to do this:

1) Where do they learn the spell? Unless the PC wizards have Wild Talent, the GM has total control over what Enchantment spells other wizards are willing to teach the PCs. Seeking out the only grimoire known to have a certain spell in it, or the wizard who keeps its secret (and has some errands for you) can even be the stimulus for a quest or a few.

2) Are they authorized to make the item? Guild rules might grant certain wizards monopolies on certain items, and they *can* tell what you're trying to make from the ingredients you're buying. Opportunity for an intown adventure; straight up combat with an oppressive wizards guild for a proper munchkin feel, or more social interaction if branching out into other genres. Even in DF, the combination of your bard's silver tongue and a large donation to the guildmasters retirement fund *might* just do the trick here.

3) Can you find all the ingredients? Getting that dragon gizzard or djinni snot might be the stimulus for *another* quest or two.

Basically, I'd just exert the same GM control over what it's possible for them to make on their own as I would on what's available at the magic store or to be found in the dungeons. If a ring of invisibility would be too disruptive to campaign balance, they'll have to jump through just as many, if not more, hoops to make one than it would take to find one in the next dungeon, and neither might end up happening in the end....

3)

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Yes but what suggestion you made could be done mostely with only value per item. No system of how it realy works is nessesary. More so making any system balanced is somewhat imposible for single GM. And even better, why to waste the time by figuring out how it works, if you could use that time more on other stuff. Many complains about standart enchanting system and other alternative systems are that you cannot truly do what you need. Most of time fun would need something else then GM counting if his next action is possible or even how it was done in first place (considering numbers beyond a dungeon for example)

As an enchanter freak my general experience is such that I have wasted the GM'S time for other players by making him focus on my enchanting.

While I state clearly that I can't find single player made item that would be unbalanced. I had to pay every single item with effort and blood (sometimes the "real in game" thing).

There is other way for GM, not paying close attetion on crafters. That way it can only became unbalanced, as player will have only system "against" him. Or the other alternative is that GM makes it un-attractive for the player.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Oh, an alternate way of doing Eberron Artificers is to just have a limitation such as Material Focus on his magery,and buy spells normally. If he just needs a single item to use any of his abilities, go with a normal limit; if it's a different item for each spell, I'd probably treat the Size of the focus as 2 greater than the size of any individual focus. This fairly accurately replicates the way an Eberron artificer works in play.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

For Infusions, sure but Artificers are good at making items that are usable by anyone (with a casting class or UMD ranks).

Edit: Though now that I've read DF; I can see it's not especially relevant to Eberron, as you pointed out upthread.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Except for the whole GMs buy 20x the number of RPG books that players do. And the whole you can only play what someone is willing to GM thing. I've always felt that was the big obstacle holding GURPS back from greater success. GURPS is a real bear to GM. Were it not for the DF series I doubt I'd have ever been willing to attempt to DM GURPS again.