Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

In D&D it sort of works because the only real source of wealth involves bashing things, and because serious items take enough XP to enchant that you have to go out and bash monsters fairly often to have the XP free. Also, levelling up to be able to make the 'good stuff' means bashing monsters. That said, it is too easy, IMO (and messes up play balance if the party wizard makes too many or too few items, or charges other PCs too much or too little for them).

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Why not have the enchantment power take a long time to do or that there is only a certain amount of times they can make an enchanted power in a given time period, like 2 times a year for a +1 sword or 1 time a year for a +2 sword , it takes two years for a +3 one ect.?

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Um, because the OP was already complaining that the regular rules for enchantment took too long, and was looking for something *faster*, not slower?

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Incorrect.

In AD&D, player characters creating magic items is poorly supported by the rules, and often ends up involving sucking majorly up to the GM.

Only with D&D 3rd Edition were player characters empowered to create the items they wanted to possess, without having to jump millions of hoops and their players manipulating the GM via all sorts of despicable metagame antics.

And this proves my point, excellently, that GURPS Dungeon Fantasy is not an attempt to recreate D&D3, but rather AD&D. Which expains why GURPS DF doesn't float my boat very well.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

No, it was a brilliant thing to do, as part of a larger collection of brilliant desing decisions that means that Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition is a player-oriented RPG rules systems, whereas almost all other RPG systems in existence, very much including AD&D and GURPS, are GM-oriened.

Incorrect. There is a third soluton which means that nobody will ever pump out vast quantities of permanent magic items. And without the enchantment process requiring huge amounts of time.

The GM not having control is the entire point of D&D3 being a player-oriented system.

edit: fixed quotes.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

One of my homebrew RPGs, Sagatafl, gives each character an amount of Essence, derived from some of the character's inborn attributes. Essence never renews or recharges, and is specifically intended to be spent on creating permanent magic items.

Most characters don't have any way to spend their Essence. Scholarly characters are likely to learn the Enchantment skill, so they can spend their Essence on making permanent magic items. Other charcters learn more exotic skills so that they can make trees magical. Other characters again are fortunate enough to have been born with inborn Powers that lets them spend Essence, usually to reproduce some of the effects of the Enchantment skill.

The result is a magic system from which you can derive a setting, and which is player-centered as opposed to GM-centered.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Kromm has been pretty explicit about GURPS DF being a remake of AD&D, and not of D&D3, and by now you all know that I'd much rather have seen a remake of D&D3. But let's accept Kromm's design goals (after all, nobody is going to try to force me to GM a GURPS DF campaign, ever).

Looking in the 3rd PDF, GURPS Dungeon Fantasy: The Next Level, a few of the species templates have a Perk that gives a -10% monery cost discount on gear with the Elven or Dwarven prefix.

Why not make a full-blown Advantage (not a Perk) that lets the character produce magic items quickly, but at a cost nearly equal to their market purchase value?

Say that a +1 damage sword costs $5000.

editA character with the Enchanter Advantage would then be able to make such a sword in a single day, for market value -10%, or $4500, and character with the Master Enchanter Advantage would be able to make it at market value -20%, which is $4000, also in a single day.

Thus, making any magic items takes 1 day, but it is very costly. Almost as costly as buying it yourself.

Enchanter could cost 20 CPs, and Master Enchanter could cost 50 CP. Both lend themselves very well to the -20% Aspected Limitation, such as "Magic Weapons Only" (even though I think that it should often be a bit more, like -30% or -40%).

One could presume that NPCs can have Genius Enchanter and Supreme Enchanter, which gives a discount of -30% or -40%, but I see no problems with restricting this to NPCs.


Going off on my own, about Aspected for Enchanter, I think that Magic Weapons And Armour only should be -15%, and Magic Weapons or Magic Armour should be -20%.

Anything not to do directly with weapons or armour should be more than -20%, and even more if it is a narrow category.

Likewise, Magic Axes Only or Magic Swords Only, or Magic Mail Only, should be at least -25%, and probably -30% for a specific weapon type like axe or sword.

edits: 1 typo.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

Agreed that this would work just fine, with the proviso that certain items may require special ingredients (beyond money, gems, etc.) which must be gained through another quest.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

b-dog IS the OP.

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Enchantment Power
 

I do not realy get the "GM centered" and "player centered" stuff. What you propose on enchanting could be done by GURPs as well. By a dirty trick of homerules and regular limitations.

I have read something in gaming theory about tactic and comabat based systems. If you mean that by "GM centered". For me GURPS 4e offer optional rule that allow characters to change any roll result for character points. Without losing the balance, wich is generaly what the new systems are offering. (Something like meta-gaming)

More so I could hardly comply on the GURPS being "GM oriented" as most of what is written is for players as well as for GM. Only small chapters (two small for my liking) are for GM as advice how to run a game. (Wich is fixed with setting specific modules.)

In case of enchanting its not being specifically GM oriented, its simply because there was never a good system for enchanting, as for many other things that are not adveture-tactic-combat like. Why? There is a bunch of prejudice crap. Like how a leasure time (non adveture-tactic-combat) is borring, and how it would ruin the game if the players character gets something without blood. For my own view the problem is more in GM and Player creativity. Making the backround come alive. That is a hard work of course...Thats why so many games are about fighting. Combat now matter how tactical is easy.