Steve Jackson Games Forums - GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

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Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg 1

Lonewulf, maybe it would be a more generally useful resource if instead of a specific dungeon, it was just a collection of monsters, traps, maps etc. that can by used for GURPS fantasy games.

Why? The traps, monsters, and maps themselves are put in a way that you can grab and go; if you want to take the whole thing, that's doable. If you want to take it apart a piece at a time and cart off the piece, that's also doable.

I see it as the best of both worlds.

The monsters come with stats and racial templates. if you want to make a similar character, grab it. If you want a map, grab it.

And the maps would be set up in a way that would give ideas for using the monsters, or using the traps, in intriguing ways.

A small trap that's mostly useless can be VERY useful if in a very specific area. Designing both the trap and putting it in context can be much more useful.

However, I suppose I could slim down the idea some, since there seems to be very little clamoring on here. I guess I don't know the forums half as well as I thought I did.

Either that, or I could go with the list anyways for now, and then stat out any such dungeon later on.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDLadage

<snip plan>
Thoughts?

It is a good plan.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinl

An iconic dungeon would be a boon, if everyone could reasonably expect to play through it. It would become a common experience, but only if it was short and sweet enough that everyone might try it.

Yes. Right now, think of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy as being in its infancy. Once we have a few introductory, Hommlet-style adventures, we can make the WLD, Undermountain-style adventures. Doing this will also let us see the various limitations and where we need more support products. (It's one reason I want a Fantasy Campaigns product. It lets us have a certain set of expectations for a small tomb or a shop, and use those in future adventures.)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDLadage

I thought that the original WLD was nothing more than a collection of monsters, traps, maps etc.

Like Lonewolf, I really fail to see why there is such resistance to the concept.

Lonewulf, KDLadage:

I wasn't speaking against the WLD proyect. I only was stating my preference for Dungeons in general. That wasn't mean to be a specific resistance to your proyect!

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinl

Since they are long, and gamers often have ferret-like attention spans, they fail to complete them. Since they fail to get to the end, the megamods have less of an impact.

That is my point, too. IME a lot of classic AD&D/D&D35 adventure modules are too much dungeon intensive... They are heavy to complete them, even heavy to dungeon mastering them. In the past I strived for getting the most of AD&D but I did never was comfortable with TSR official published adventure modules.

So my nitpick here is towards the Dungeon Fantasy genre as a whole.

Instead, the WLD proyect is more a sort of special case, isn't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hai-Etlik

One vague idea I had when DF2 came out was a subterrainian world with no surface (...)
So just about everything that happens outside of cities (at least those built in large caverns) would be a dungeon crawl. For DF, it would simply remove the wilderness phases

In Dungeon Fantasy, I can see a "dungeon intensive campaign without town" could be suited for a sort of "Underdark" setting. And if it seems to have a sort of roleplaying sense, that would help by lessening a bit the sensation of suffocation ;)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

It isn't that I think that there is anything wrong with the WLD project. In fact, anything you put online as a resource for GURPS players is a good thing. Moreover, as has so rightly been pointed out, something like this could be broken down into bits for use elsewhere.

My concern is just that a project pitched as The World's Largest Dungeon is probably going to attract mostly gamers wanting to play in a single extremely big dungeon, which is probably not that many of them. On the other hand, something pitched as a collection of resources for GURPS fantasy games (or even just GURPS Dungeon Fantasy games) would attract a lot more people.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg 1

My concern is just that a project pitched as The World's Largest Dungeon is probably going to attract mostly gamers wanting to play in a single extremely big dungeon, which is probably not that many of them.

To be fair, the World's Largest Dungeon did sell well... well enough to be popular, that is.

However, to also be fair, D&D isn't GURPS, and doesn't attract the same kinds of gamers.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

Yea... I am thinking that the GURPS crowd and the WLD may not be the best fit. A collection of 16, 24, and 32 page dungeons, however, might be.

Especially if a good GURPS Bestiary series can finally be published.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg 1

It isn't that I think that there is anything wrong with the WLD project. (...) My concern is just that a project pitched as The World's Largest Dungeon is probably going to attract mostly gamers wanting to play in a single extremely big dungeon, which is probably not that many of them.

If I'm understanding well (and that doesn't need to be true), WLD could be a cool proyect and useful resource. But my point would be not trying to make WLD as representative of Dungeon Fantasy in itself.
Dungeon Fantasy could need shorter & intense adventures, and keeping out foreign elements (as shotguns and rocketlaunchers from Doom ;)).
However, WLD could use a totally different criteria. I would make a split:

-Dungeon Fantasy representative playable modules, including dungeons.

-The amazing, frightening and weird Word Largest Dungeon!

I think there are enough room (and I hope, energy) for both things, and they don't need to be the same (OK, WLD can contain useful elements, too). Indeed, I even wasn't aware of people here thinking about choosing between WLD or a DF representative dungeon/module, myself thinking WLD was independent.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Yes. Right now, think of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy as being in its infancy.

Well, of course... it is only source]third[/URL]]third[/URL] level!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Only 17 more levels to world domination . . .

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3 now available!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icelander

The racial templates were... well, racial templates for Dungeon Crawling. Simple, direct and could have been whipped up for any player who wanted one in about 1-2 minute each.
(...)
I want more detail in templates, not less. The only GURPS books with templates that I've found satisfactorily in the least was the 3e Special Ops and maybe a couple of Hans' work in 4e.
(...)
Plain vanilla we could have done ourselves.
(...) let me say that I'm sure the book is useful to someone. Someone entirely new to GURPS might get use from it, for example, and my room-mate, who is trying to learn the rules, might try to use it to run a simple Dungeon Crawl.
(...)
I want someone to do the math and write-out for a Powers-style Meteor Swarm (because GURPS magic doesn't have anything like it), Sense Secret Doors (Dungeon Fantasy style), Stonecunning, Wall of Force/Iron/Stone. I can do all of that, but it requires some time and math, whereas Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't.

That's so geeky...

I am very good at racial design, too, and familiar with Martial Arts, but I feel no need to let the world know; and I don't think less of GURPS players who are not as confident as me with advanced rules, template building and so on.

Don't take me wrong, but you seem to have an elitarian approach which, in my opinion, is extremely rare among "actual" GURPS players (as opposed to "expert, technical-minded GMs" who populate this forum).

You write that you want more detail in templates... well you are probably the only one :)
I like details, and I can build an extremely detailed racial or occupational template, listing dozens of traits and skills... and then, I'll better throw it away and create something simpler that might be actually useful in play.

I like the Dungeon Fantasy series, I think its scope is to be a fast, light-hearted, hack-n-slash game, and I think it manages to do so very nicely.

I don't care about how to replicate exactly Meteor Swarm in GURPS terms, and I am happy to focus more on play than on power-building (GURPS Powers: the most detailed, comprehensive and BORING book of all time).

I really hope that SJG people don't take into account "advices" like yours about how GURPS should be, or the game will soon lose its (already small) niche of players, becoming an overcomplicated, useless world- and power-building tools for bored GMs...