Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Ah! Then maybe it would be better to change "(-5 for Hit Location: Vitals)" to "(-5 for major wound to vitals)". Or, maybe don't change it and assume not everybody is as dense as me.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Howdy Folks!

Been a long time, but I've given the Combat Examples page a little love and corrected all of the errors reported since the last time I updated. For the future:

• First and foremost I want to begin posting some very basic and streamlined examples that do not use all optional rules - so hopefully there will be some 'quick and dirty' combats posted soon.
• I'm afraid I still haven't posted an example submitted by The Bearded One well over a year ago! Naturally I'd like to get that done (sorry Bearded One!)
• Many of the PDF versions of the examples are not as up-to-date as the web versions. Until I get that done please be aware that if you download a PDF it may still contain known errors that have already been corrected!

Changes made are as follows:

Melee Four, Turn Two - Added a check for weapon breakage. (Just attempting a Parry triggers a check for weapon breakage right? You still check even if the Parry was unsuccessful?)

Ranged Four, Turns Five and Six - Pretty sure Phoenix_Dragon is correct about the timing of the penalty, so no change there, though I did add a note about the critical failure for rolling 10 or more over his target. Also moved the HT check to avoid unconsciousness down into Turn Six.

Ranged Four, Turn Four - Lowered Zach's Move from 5 yards to 2 yards.

Ranged One, Turn Seven - Changed to "-5 for Major Wound to the Vitals" for clarity.


Close Combat Two, Turn Six - Changed the example so Arthur does lose his Grapple when he suffers Knockdown. Also added an entry to the FAQ. "if you were holding anything, you drop it" seems like it would include holding other people as well as things?

Close Combat Four, Turn Two - Made both of these corrections (though I did change Zach's Parry roll so he would still succeed).

Close Combat Four, Turn Three - Made a note that since Zach failed his unarmed parry against a weapon, Arthur could choose to either strike his original target or the arm Zach attempted to parry with (B377).

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Spell combat. Awesome.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Awesome, thanks! :)

Melee 4, Turn 5: Zach should either be at a -2 to hit because he is still in a Kneeling posture (Basic p 551), or using his Step to rise to a Standing posture in addition to the change in facing (p 368), but it doesn't alter the outcome.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Thanks for the catch Gold & Appel Inc! Fixed.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Tinkered for a while tonight with a new example that doesn't have all the options turned on. A lot of folks have asked for "quick and dirty" GURPS examples, this is my attempt.

Basically, this is the original Melee One, now named Melee One - Full Options.

And this is Melee One pared waaaay down, named Melee One - Basic.

Differences from the Full Options Example:

• No Flexible Armor and Blunt Trauma (B379).
• No Hit Locations - all hits are to the torso (B398).
• No Major Wound or Knockdown and Stunning (B420) in Turn Four.
• No check for Fatigue Loss (B426) after the battle.
• No Bleeding (B420) after the battle.

Just poking around for a little feedback before I start making more changes. I considered maybe taking out the Shock penalties too, but that seemed just a little too basic. Thoughts?

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

I don't think shock is optional.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

True, but neither are any of the other rules listed, with the sole exception of Bleeding. But I think many (most?) groups don't use 'em ... so I'm trying to find where I should draw the line of what constitutes "bare minimum GURPS" (since in the larger sense, all rules are optional).

Not exactly sure how quick and dirty the "quick and dirty" examples should be.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

I'd think that Knockdown and Stunning are essential parts of the GURPS experience. The rest of the stuff you mentioned can safely be left aside, I think.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

I'd think that Knockdown and Stunning are essential too, but I think those looking for 'quick and dirty' GURPS are trying to emulate the "I bash him until his hit points are below 0 and he dies" type of mechanic. Gonna leave 'em out for now.

I was hoping to have Basic examples for all four Melee examples to post, but unfortunately it took a lot longer than I'd anticipated - I only finished number Two.

Here's the original Melee Two, now named Melee Two - Full Options.
Here's Melee Two - Basic.

As always, appreciate any other eyes that pass over 'em. I'm worried about introducing new errors into examples that have already been community vetted!

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Picture this:

A character on a bike, armed with a submachine gun versus a footbound character armed with an assault rifle/carbine.

That could make for an interesting combat example.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

I'm new to GURPS and was reading your combat examples. Thanks for creating them, they are very helpful!

But I'm a little confused on how scopes work. (B412)

In your FAQ you write

This sounds like there is no difference at all between variable-power or fixed-power scopes.
Or does it mean you "set" the variable-power scope to a value at some point and then it behaves exactly like a fixed-power scope of that value? Say you have a variable scope of +5, but you set it at +3, so it behaves like a fixed-power scope of +3? I cannot see why it would work like this.

From B412 I read it differently. The fixed-power scope works like your example:

But if you had a variable-power scope of +3, I think it would work like this:
Turn 1: Aim - get +6 for weapon Accuracy, +1 from scope (total +7)
Turn 2: Aim - further +1 for Aiming, +1 for scope (total +9)
Turn 3: Aim - further +1 for Aiming, +1 for scope (total +11)
Turn 4: Aim - no further bonuses, total bonus is +11

So the result after 3 or more turns of aiming would be the same, but it you only aim for 1 or 2 turns the variable-power scope is better. And you don't need to set the variable-power scope in advance, just aim for as many turns as you like at get the bonus.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Welcome to GURPS CaptainComic! I'm glad you found the examples helpful.

You're not alone! :) Scopes are addressed in the Basic Set, High-Tech, Gun Fu, and Tactical Shooting - but in none of those books is there an official, turn-by-turn example. You'll need to decide for your own group which way to handle variable-power scopes.

One interpretation is the one you posted, i.e., variable-power scopes provide a +1 bonus per turn of Aim, up to their max. This is of course perfectly playable, and many others share this view.

The second interpretation is that variable-power scopes differ from fixed-power only in the fact that they can be adjusted. A +9 variable-power scope used at, say, +5 magnification is functionally equivalent to a +5 fixed-power scope (and so does not provide an incremental bonus).

After much discussion, this was the interpretation I decided on as RAW (Rules As Written) for the examples, primarily for two reasons:

• The text of page B412 says, "With a fixed-power scope, you must aim for at least as many seconds as the scope's bonus. With a variable-power scope, you may Aim for fewer seconds, but this reduces your bonus by a like amount." It does not explicitly say that variable-power scopes provide a +1/turn bonus, that has just been the most common interpretation.
• In a "real world" sense, a variable-power scope really is functionally the same as a fixed-power scope. The only difference is that it has a little dial that can be adjusted to change magnification. Personally I don't see that justifying a per-turn bonus - the variable-power scope isn't doing anything differently in combat, from second-to-second, than a fixed-power scope would. Possibly in a game with Ultra-Tech equipment, where a scope might reasonably have the ability to auto-focus and independently change magnification, I might make an exception.

As far as I'm aware there's never been an official ruling one way or the other. It really does come down to personal preference, and both choices are completely playable.

Again, welcome to GURPS, and to the forums. The community here is amazingly helpful, we're all happy to help with any questions at all so ask away!

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Yes, actually this does make more sense. I just didn't see where this was in the rules. I will play it like this.

As many are confused, you might add a note in the FAQ (or a link to your post, you explained it quite well).

Someone said in #84 that you need a ready maneuver to set the scope to a different value. Sounds like a good rule.

Indeed. It's really a great forum :)

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Yeah, something like you take a penalty to Per equal to the scope bonus for target acquisition, but then you "get it back" when aiming. High mags imply tight cones of visibility.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

That's why a sniper aims with both eyes open. Although one eye (for target acquisition) sees only in 2D while the other eye is fixed through the scope. Only when the trigger is pulled, the target acquisition eye closes for a brief moment.

I also think a scope should have a description on how long it takes to set it for the right distance. Some older German scopes even need special tools to adjust them and take alot of time to adjust them (for range en focus).

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

In the close combat examples you have alot of use of the options from B357, but these should cost 1FP every time.

Re: Examples of 4e Combat
 

Hello jaHenderson!

I gave the four Close Combat examples an admittedly quick look-over, I don't see any uses of extra effort that aren't prefaced with "Opts to spend X FP" ... do you remember any specific instances? ("Example 3, Turn 4", etc.)