Wealth in DF
 

As dungeon delving needs to be a relatively lucurative field for a variety of reasons, how does such changes in ammount of money relate to wealth advantages and disadvantages?

It seems that haveing little money to start with makes the most sense as to make enough to say justify healing potions and the like you will quickly make enough money to get 1000 worth of gear.

Also with say weapon bonds and getting new magic swords can you transfer it? Enchantment of such things can take an very long time after all.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Wealth has a slightly different effect in Dungeon Fantasy than in Basic Set; it modifies your starting money, but after play begins it represents 'Business Contacts' which will let you sell loot at a higher percentage of base cost. This is outlined on pages 14-15 of DF: Dungeons and on page 23 of DF: Adventurers. Making money doesn't necessarily equate to higher levels of Wealth (though a GM might allow a PC to buy it with earned CP); it just means you have more cash to buy more stuff.

Weapon Bond is specifically for that weapon and is non-transferable. I recommend making your Weapon Bond be both Signature Gear and fairly high-quality at the outset in order to ensure this will be a point well spent.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

That can quickly get into a lot of points of signature gear.

Again this is not so much a problem in many games as you often don't get such incomes in other games.

edit: For example you want to make a fencer, so you take the rapier from martial arts that can cut and thrust, it starts as 1000, it weights 3 pounds and so you make it unbreakable(now 9000), it needs to get through armor so you add penetrating (14000). That is 28 points in signature gear right there.

Now the guy who finds it is in luck as they have an extra 28 points for skills and atributes. So he spends them on his rapier skill and kills the guy with the good swords and loots his body.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

It's Signature Gear; I'm not overly worried about breakage, assuming I play intelligently, because I've spent points that say my GM should give me a chance to get it repaired if it breaks through no real fault of my own. If I make a point of always parrying the Ogre's two-handed clubs with it, I deserve to have it break. I'd probably make it Fine (again, using the Dungeon Fantasy rules) for a final cost of $4000 - and a swashbuckler starting with an 8-point Signature Gear sword is perfectly rational to me.

As for penetrating armor, spend those points on more skill (or Targeted Attack techniques) in order to aim for chinks in armor or go for the eyes. Starting adventurers shouldn't have too much need for a Penetrating weapon anyway, and experienced ones can either take the time to intimately learn the balance of their new magic sword (by spending another point for Weapon Bond) or else just live with the fact that they've lost +1 to skill.

If it transferred from weapon to weapon, it would be no different from +1 skill, for 1/4 the cost - and that's silly.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Yep and there go the 8 points for signature gear.

And why are 250 point characters thought of as starting? 250 points is plenty to face things like Golems and other high DR things. Look at the dual golem swordsman from Dungeons, a swashbuckler with out a penetrating weapon is so pointless against him.
DF has accurate for a x4 in the cost of a weapon you get a +1 to all rolls with it.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

The guy that bought the sword with points, barring other differences, should still find the same sword for treasure as the second guy. That means he can now sell it and use the money to further enchant his already-nice sword.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Enchant a sword? Ok, he will then have to give it up for a couple of years. What a great way to screw players out of their signature gear and their money!

Hats off to a truely evil GM.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Well, different challenges need different adventurers to step up. But note "it seems to have the usual human vulnerabilities at the head and vitals" and Injury Tolerance (No Blood) but no other IT. The smart swashbuckler will aim at chinks in armor (DR 9), and of course it was his choice not to spend any of his 60 discretionary points on the ST +1 to +6 and Striking ST 1 or 2 on his template. If he wants to kill golems with a rapier, maybe ST 15, Striking ST 2, and a swung sword is the way to go.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

You can swing a rapier. At least the one from Martial arts that I referenced.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

250 points is thought of as 'starting' because that's what Dungeon Fantasy recommends for starting characters and provides in its templates. In fact, 250 points is a pretty seasoned adventurer, but I wouldn't really be wanting to crawl into a dungeon full of nasties with some rank noob anyway. If you want to represent some of that 250 points as 'I have a magic penetrating sword', you'll have a leg up against high-DR critters over the guy who took more skill; you trade off in that you don't have his skills. This is fair and balanced.

As for swashbucklers being pointless, if you're referring to the Golem-Armor Swordsman on page 24, anything shy of a Barbarian is going to have trouble piercing his DR straight up. However, his armor has chinks, the golem has eyes (and is specifically described as apparently having the normal human vulnerabilities in the head and vitals), and any Swashbuckler worth his salt is going to be aiming for one or the other. I wouldn't call a Penetrating weapon a 'requirement' by any stretch.

That's 'Balanced', which still doesn't transfer from weapon to weapon, and has a cash value rather than a point value.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

The problem is that it might well be fair and ballanced innitialy. But then everyone one raids a dungeon and gets 10,000 in equipment, suddenly the guy who didn't start off with the equipment, but skills has a serious advantage.

Everyone gets better equipment over the course of the game, so unless you make it so that the equipment guy still has equipment an order of magnitude more valuable than everyone else, he made a bad decision.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

The difference is that SG buys the adventurer this guarantee: "the GM's word that he won't often be without it." A found sword -- even Excalibur -- is fair game for quickling pickpockets, Disintegrate spells, and random "items that fall down the well when you jump" rolls. SG is not. Your dad's fine rapier might not be a fine, balanced, Defending Rapier of Piercing, but on the other hand, you'll always have it. If you don't think your GM is evil, and you're willing to roll the dice on it, just avoid SG and trust in your ordinary gear. SG is there for paranoid players who consider "I have a rapier, even when we're stripped naked and being fed to Cthulhu" to be a crucial ability; it isn't merely a cash substitute.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

In the long run, we're all dead, so everyone who didn't buy Unkillable made a bad decision. Spending points on equipment is an investment in making sure you live long enough to make more money. One way to survive is to have the good equipment, and some folks without the right gear won't live long enough to get it.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

So in other words it is unbreakable, and it perfect for those who worry about the GM running a prison break game as you will have your sword with you in prison.

It really is no different than buying it as an innate attack.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I would not let the SG gear go that far. If you are captured and naked in a jail cell you still don't have the rapier. But the SG means that your captures have not fed it to a rust monster of flung it down a pit. It is around somewhere and recoverable at some point during the escape, even if none of the other player's gear is.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Exactly. The guard outside the cell bought it from the quartermaster, and you just have to mug him after you escape from the cell to get it back. Or it's on the rack down the hall and around the corner, behind the captains bench. Or someone's mounted it on a plaque as a trophy and hung it in the hall.

It is nigh unbreakable because it won't get targeted by an ogre looking to sunder weapons, or a rust monster looking for breakfast, or Explosion spells, or evil shape metal attacks or whatever.

If you deliberately poke the rust monster with it, it still goes blooey. If you try (and fail) to parry the tree, it probably breaks. And don't use it as a crowbar either.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Only successful parries break weapons. If you fail you do not get the weapon in the way of the attack

Re: Wealth in DF
 

You can "successfully" parry a very heavy weapon only to have it smash through your weapon and squash you flat anyways. Generally only applies to ogres with trees, or people trying to parry a charging bull or car crash ;)

That is what I'd call a very failed parry.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Well, yes. You don't literally have a rapier hidden on your person while naked. However, it's near enough by that the GM should allow an Acrobatics roll to swing over and get it with your foot while hanging over the pit, or a Sex Appeal roll to make the guards stupidly bring it over where you can grab it.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

An oft-missed point -- I applaud your insight! Many things that "won't be worth the points" 50, 100, 150, or more points down the line are great right now, when the campaign starts. They ensure that you'll earn those 50+ points without dying first, or without acquiring a problem like One Hand. Those who think that spending 10 points on Signature Gear armor is wasteful are welcome not to do so; those who do, though, won't die or lose important body parts as easily. And dungeon fantasy is a subgenre where the GM is actually supposed to be trying to dismember, rob, and kill the PCs. It's his job, as he represents the Opposition, whom the PCs are themselves trying to kill and rob. Thus, SG is many times more likely to be a good investment in dungeon fantasy than in most genres.

Points in SG or just ordinary cash are a lot like points spent to buy success (p. B347) or a flesh wound (p. B417): they don't really give you any long-term power that will evolve and grow with your PC. However, they might well buy you the opportunity to still have a PC who can evolve and grow. It's up to you whether you think this is a good investment. It's a lot like "What's better? $1,000 on a new cardio machine or $1,000 in my IRA?" If you die of a heart attack at 45, you might have wished you had worked out more . . .

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Can you buy a pet as SG?

Re: Wealth in DF
 

A pet is reasonable SG if all you want is a trained animal that costs money. I'd buy a cool pet as an Ally, though . . . that's both cheaper and closer to what most gamers expect from animal companions.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I once bought a mule as SG. It was a very good mule.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Or barbarians with oversized polearms.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

And dieing is a good thing, as you get to bring in characters appropriately built to the current point total.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Hmm, you also need to spend the points to raise your level of signature gear if you get signature gear enchanted.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I don't mind the player not spending the points - but then I feel 100% justified when it gets disenchanted again by a stray Evil Rune or something.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I specifically don't do this in cases where I think players are attempting to 'recycle' their characters. If a PC dies through no real fault of the player, I'm more inclined to be generous, but if the player simply drops the character or starts taking uncharacteristically stupid risks* in order to get killed, there's a good chance their next character has starting points, or some midpoint between party average and starting points.

Just as I wouldn't require a player to spend points on Wealth to reflect the fact that his PC has sold a lot of loot for cash, I wouldn't require a player with Signature Gear to spend extra points on it if he goes to the time and effort to get it enchanted in-game. Doing so may still be worthwhile, however, since increasing the value of the Signature Gear advantage would extend SG protection to the enchantments on the item as well as the item itself; without this, the enchantment could be dispelled or twisted to other unpleasantness.

*Not that I haven't had a number of Impulsive, Overconfident, or even On the Edge PCs in games... but those are characteristically stupid risks and I expect PCs with any of these traits to occasionally do dumb things.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Seez who? I know a number of GMs who require new PCs to start at the same point value as the original PCs started at, or at the current PC average less some number of points.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Maybe in your games. I usually bring in new characters (whether for new players or old ones) into a game at a level determined by averaging everyone's points and the starting power level. So if Joe is 280 points, Mary is 295 points, Tim is 300 points, and the campaign began at 250 points, a new character comes in at (280+295+300+250)/4 points, or 281 points.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Just to wander back in the general direction of Wealth in DF. Is there a reason that neither the Holy Warrior nor the Knight have Wealth listed in their Templates? I would think that both of them (but especially the knight) would have a need for it to cover the costs of their professional gear. Seeing as it (and the presence of Savior-Faire (High Society) ) are the short-hand for status in DF, Wealth would seem to fit either template as well.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

The recommendation in the templates is to buy extra gear for them using Signature Gear or 'points for cash', IIRC.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Bear in mind that the Knight is just what d20 would call a Fighter, not an actual knight/cavalier/etc. So there's no need for him to have status/wealth, though I agree that it would make a fine addition to the list, when building an actual "knight" Knight.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Nothing says you can't scrounge up points and buy Wealth for anyone, really. But as far as the templates go, it's only given to the roguish social engineers (bard and thief) because I was looking strictly at the buy/sell angle. In dungeon hacks -- as opposed to in semi-historical fantasy -- making deals is the job of roguish types. Knights are indeed just fighters with the name changed to avoid hard feelings; even knightly knights are essentially knights errant, ronin, etc., and probably stuck with the gear on their back.

I guess I'll admit that I was taking a moderately hard line on niche protection, doing things like leaving Survival off "urban" templates and only giving Wealth to "rogue" templates. As SJ himself pointed out, "Really, a party only needs one guy with Wealth, the way these rules work." Exactly. And that guy ought to be the main reseller, who will likely be the bard or thief. If the knight could do as well, he'd steal the spotlight from these other guys even in town, when he's already going to be dominating 3/4 of the action in the dungeon by hacking things to death. I wanted the weaselly town-dwellers to have some edge!

I think that a genuine knight, with social backing, horse, armor, etc., would be an interesting template -- call him "landed knight" or "knight of the realm" or something -- quite different from the generic one. I'm not certain that it would be the most useful template on a dungeon hack, but who knows? The 11 templates in Adventurers represent a considerably pared-down list. Had I infinite space, I'd have included other concepts from my original hardback outline: an artificer, an assassin distinct from the scout and thief, a beastmaster distinct from the barbarian and druid, and a scholar distinct from the cleric and wizard. Also, I wouldn't have merged what my notes called the knight and the swordsman. The former was closer to a real knight; the latter, to the classic fighter. I chose "knight" over "swordsman" (probably better called "man at arms" or something) to name the template because "swordsman" could easily be mistaken for "swashbuckler" (and "man at arms" lost for being too long).

Re: Wealth in DF
 

So the goal is that with each death the party becomes much weaker and their enemies proportionatly more powerful.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

So in other games it doesn't matter if they are now 10th level you make the new guy start at first.

Cool he gets to make new characters for every game.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I hear Pyramid likes to do Designer Notes articles with outtakes...

Wow, I wondered about the thought process that generated that name. I figured it would have been too cheeky to ask. Thank you.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

One of my players is busily hacking togeather a "beast fighter", the initial idea being a martial artist, but his "chi" powers have the druidic power modifier, not the Chi one. Possibly also access to the regular druidic powers, sort of like the druidic version of a Holy Warrior.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

A good GM tailors the encounters to the party and doesn't just keep uping the power without regard to group dynamic.

The point here is to provide a deterrent to death so that players don't just kill their characters off when they want to play something new.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

So the good GM reconfigures an established Enemies abilities to conform to current party configuration?

Re: Wealth in DF
 

absolutely

Re: Wealth in DF
 

What a strange way for the world to behave.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I think I will just get rid of Signature Gear, and bump up the rate that points can be converted into cash to the rate of signature gear. The idea that signature gear is harder to remove from a character than the characters own limbs is just wrong.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Or, perhaps, reconfigures the Enemy's attention span and intentions towards particular PCs: "I hate those three guys who stole my Magic McGuffin, but I have no idea who those other two are, so I'm not going to waste quite so much time trying to kill them."

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Well, it is something they're paying additional points for, just as they might spend points on an advantage which made their limbs much harder to remove than factory-standard 0-point limbs.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

So then buying Infarvision means that putting the charters eyes out becomes harder? They spent points on better eyes after all.

Also the rate that points get turned into cash is twice as high as if you just use points to buy cash. So it is very foolish to put points into cash to buy anything that is significantly expensive because you get something that is harder to remove from the character than say their sight, and it costs less points.

Also think of the fun if a character looses their dominant hand, now everything gets off hand penalties.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

But the whole point of the Signature Gear advantage is that it provides plot protection, just like the while point of the DR advanage is that is protects against mundane attacks. It works best in some styles of campaign, but the same goes for most traits.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

But it also provides equipment at a much lower cost than other ways of buying it for many characters. And most abilities that cost points don't have those protections. You get your eyes put out and that see invisible advantage is now gone as well.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Dungeon Fantasy already assumes this (DF:A, page 23, under Extra Money). To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why the Basic Set didn't do it that way from the outset.

Who could possibly imagine Indiana Jones without his fedora, James Bond without a Walther PPK*, or Mandorallen (of The Belgariad and The Malloreon) without his plate armor? These are the sorts of things Signature Gear is supposed to represent.

*Yes, I know he's switched in more recent movies.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

While imagining those characters with out an arm is easy? Bond is Bond as long as he has his PPK, no matter how disfigured and mutilated he is. Chasing foes in his electric wheelchair as he is now a quadriplegic, no problem, as long as he has his gun.

Hmm, does Bond have Signature Gear(Genitals)? Because he would not be the same if he acquired the eunuch disadvantages

Re: Wealth in DF
 

No, because Infravision does not provide eye protection - you'd buy DR for that. Signature Gear explicitly *does* provide protection to that gear, however.

Jack Sparrow's hat is another excellent example of Signature Gear in action. He loses his hat early in the film, even spends some time looking for a replacement (and can't quite find one he likes), then - through the most improbable of means - gets it back. Because it's his hat.

Of course, getting it back also involved getting eaten by a giant sea monster. Nothing says the GM always has to be NICE about giving you your SG back. Them's the breaks.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

The thing is that this kind of plot immunity is silly because you can destroy so much that is fundamental to the character with no way of makeing such destruction impossible. Except a signature gear.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

You can't assume that just because the same points buy everything -- mental gifts, physical capabilities, racial stats, learned abilities, gear, etc. -- that it's valid to compare across categories. Beer, investment counselling, lottery tickets, massages, paintings, televisions, and vacations can all be bought with dollars, but comparisons are at best shaky. Some are goods, some are services; some are certain, some are outside chances; some are durable, some are consumable. Points are like dollars here. It isn't valid to say "X points in Signature Gear has to compare to X points in some innate trait." SG addresses one fictional trope while physical advantages tackle a completely different one, even if the two (say, a sword and claws) can be put to similar uses and are bought with the same currency (points).

My point is that it's fine to hate SG and not use it, but don't do so on the grounds that its terms and conditions (external, item in principle purchasable with cash, plot-protected) are different from those of physical traits like Claws or Infravision (innate, not purchasable for cash in the setting, can be crippled). Do so on the grounds that you don't think it's good for PCs to buy short-term insurance to keep them alive in the long term, because you, the GM, are willing to extend the promise of survival regardless.

The player is free to spend points on success (p. B347) to ensure that he makes the dodge roll, HT roll, or whatever. He's also free to buy a flesh wound (p. B417) to say that the poked-out eye or chopped-off arm didn't happen. Both SG and these things cost points, and both protect against loss. The only difference is that he's on the pay-as-you-go plan instead of the three-year contract, paid in advance. In many ways, that makes bought success and flesh wounds easier and more flexible to benefit from! And it goes without saying that in a campaign that uses SG, both of these other rules are entirely fitting, since all of these rules are cinematic in the extreme.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I'm afraid I'm not seeing a point here. Signature gear makes it possible. That's the point of it.

As a GM, you're within your rights to tell your players "I want to destroy anything you own, so you can't buy SG". You can forbid any advantage in the basic set.

But it's extremely appropriate for cinematic genres, where gimmick characters are not only acceptable but encouraged by established genre conventions.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

If you think it's silly, don't allow it in your games. It definitely belongs in GURPS, since the concept of signature gear is suitable to a staggering variety of stories across nearly every genre I can think of, but if it doesn't suit your view of how the game world should work, then disallowing it is simple. For the Dungeon Fantasy genre as written, however, Signature Gear makes perfect sense; Dungeon Fantasy is neither realistic nor meant to be particularly serious.

I, for one, will be happily sitting over here with my mage and his 'Signature Gear: Fine Elvish Mail Shirt (Power Item) [4]'.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

As others have said, weapon bonds are non-transferable. However, here's what I would do. If you have a character whose shtick is to use a certain weapon. Take signature gear, weapon bond, and named possession. Those three perks will allow the weapon to grow as the character does. Each character point you earn translates to about a 25 point increase in the items level of enchantment. That way, you can keep using your same weapon and never have to worry about it being a waste for your character.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

The thing is that claws can be purchased with cash in many settings that they are available in, and there is no way of granting that plot protection to other things. How much does it cost to make it so my character will never be crippled through plot exemption? The general rule is of course sleep with the GM.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

As opposed to gimmick characters who are based on their own internal abilities, they can't get that protection. So if my characters gimmick is to see spirits and magic and the like, I have no way to prevent him from being blinded. But the guy with the magic sword enjoys such protection.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Yes, you do. Go back and read Kromm's post again. In addition to his suggestions about spending points to avoid crippling injuries, you could also buy Luck and keep it in reserve for keeping crippling from becoming permanent (a GM might allow you to buy it with a limitation specifically for avoiding permanent crippling), buy an Injury Tolerance or some other advantage which essentially puts various kinds of damage off-limits, or buy a Patron who has appropriate technology or magic to repair such damage. With those backing you up, you're either ridiculously unlikely to lose your sight, or if you do lose it, the loss is likely to be temporary.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

So now hot irons in the eyes is only generaly good for temperary blindness.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Huh. That makes me wonder how you would price the Highlander advantage, "No, you really don't want to know where I hide the sword".

Probably Cosmic Payload with big limitations (swords only, optionally gadget limitations based on a trench coat).

Re: Wealth in DF
 

In worlds where SG is appropriate, yes. As several people have pointed out, it's appropriate for cinematic campaigns, where it's also probably appropriate for daredevil PCs to avoid permanently crippling injury or have access to exceptional healing. If you're running the kind of campaign where someone's sight can't be restored (or, perhaps, where a PC's vision is likely to need miraculous healing to begin with), then you shouldn't be using SG.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I have at least one PC in my campaign who wants Payload (Cosmic) for this purpose. It suffices to say that the other PCs won't touch items he pulls out of thin air, for reasons of hygiene, already. It gets worse from there.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I'm always just considered that they've got a holdout skill into the upper 20s or low 30s. They've had plenty of time to practice afterall.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Hmm, this makes regrowth kind of pointless.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Yup. And?

Seriously in 5th edition, they should just drop Regrowth.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I keep thinking of an exchange from the first issue of Sam and Max, Freelance Police, after the characters produce some guns:

Sam (dog in a trench coat): Say, Max, where do you keep that gun, anyway?

Max (naked bunny): None of your damn business.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Nope. It's appropriate for less cinematic campaigns, where members of a non-human race can grow things back while humans can't. And it's appropriate for more cinematic campaigns where some characters just grow things back after a while without having to do anything about it or not spending additional points to take the "not really permanent" option on a hit-by-hit basis, whereas someone without it might have to go to some effort to get to get their arm, vision, or what-have-you restored (crippling may be effectively temporary, but still non-trivial). Same ultimate destination, maybe, but many different paths, which in turn means different adventure possibilities.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Why does this thread remind me of Monty Python's Argument Clinic?

Re: Wealth in DF
 

What effort can they go to? They spend points to make their roll. They made their roll there is no efforts involved in getting magic to regrow their hand, it never came off. It was just temperarily out of action.

Regrow is then pointless. There is no effort involved in the restoration.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

It doesn't!

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Well, hey, in the sort of world where your character's friends can pay for a Resurrection in cash, with extraordinary healing, this is already the case.

So yeah, if I were GM and a character whose schtick was all about magic sight or having cat's claws or what have you, and they got maimed, I would probably make it just about as easy for them to get these defects healed in fairly short order as it is for the owner of some Signature Gear to regain the gear once lost or broken. So in a DF or other Fantasy campaign, they pretty rapidly find a cleric with the right spell, and have just about the right amount of coins for the fee. In a Cyberpunk game, they get a good deal on the appropriate cyber-prostheses, and I wouldn't even dream of charging them earned CP for getting rid of One Arm or Blind or whatever disadvantage they temporarily had.

On the other hand, if the maiming doesn't really interfere with the character's schtick, and even potentially makes them more interesting, I'd probably make them try harder to reverse it. E.g., let's see just how good Ragnar can get as a one-handed swordsman, can the martial artist learn Blind Fighting to a high enough level quickly enough to remain an effective member of the party, and so on.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

You're conflating two different cases here:

1) If they're spending points on a one-off basis to avoid crippling instead of buying Regrowth, that's an open-ended point sink, and they'll keep spending points on staying whole rather than on other things.

2) If they haven't bought Regrowth and they're not spending points on avoiding crippling, then there is effort to get repaired. They'll have to go to whatever trouble is appropriate to the campaign to receive the exceptional healing they need.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Somewhat. But you need a great many such injuries as they only cost 1 point(flesh wounds) to get out of the complications.

Hmm, flesh wounds and executions can make things interesting.

Falling guillotine, flesh wound, drop it again.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

You're either trolling deliberately or you're one of those people who just Doesn't Get It (tm). Either way, it's pretty clear that you haven't grasped either the mechanics of the rules you're protesting or the spirit behind those rules.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

Man... did you get bullyed by a Signature Gear during high-school?!?!?

Re: Wealth in DF
 

The spirit is that bad things can't happen to PC's. If you want that then you shouldn't play a game the treats PC and NPC's as mechanicaly the same.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

But bad things can happen to PCs, unless they are allowed to buy specific Advantages that specifically reduce or eliminate the risk of specific Bad Things.

If the GM doesn't want to run a cinematic game (which, by at least some definitions, does not handle PCs and NPCs mechanically identically), then he disallows cinematic Advantages like this.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

I understand what you are saying and you are right a character could just stockpile 10-15 points at the time of creation instead of getting regrowth and probably not be to terribly worse for wear instead of getting regrowth (though of course with enough disads attached to regrowth you could just get it for 8C.P. at the low end). Though speaking from personal experience it is very hard to just leave 10 or 15 points on ones character sheet on the off chance something bad will happen to you instead of burning on stuff to help insure the bad stuff never occurs in the first place.

I would also say for certain builds it would make a lot more sense to use that approach as well after all James Bond gets shot at quite frequently and left in various death traps routinely without every seeming to suffer even moderately incapacitating wounds or serious injury.

That doesnt however mean that regrowth is worthless after all not every character is James Bond nor is every campaign that features powers cinematic enough to use the various trading CPs for X effect rules. A species with moderate regeneration and regrowth for example might be the dominant military power in a campaign world for instance for their ability to recover quickly compared to other races.

Of course sometimes burning the C.P. wont actually solve the problem you are facing for instance lets say the lich you killed in an adventure had on him a very cool pair of gloves that gave you all sorts of nifty abilities initially but after a few weeks with them on you notice that you can no longer remove them and the side effects are getting pretty pronounced. With regrowth you still retain that option of cutting off your hands to get out of the trap your in without hopefully long term detriment. Without your prognosis is less optimistic.

That also doesnt get into the fact that regrowth with high levels of regeneration is both a more durable defense and more intimidating to witness most times. Burning C.Ps. to prevent wounds gives a more recognizable target number for a DM or player to hit to burn out the defenses.

Finally of course having the regrowth power as opposed to simply keeping points in reserve would also allow you to use power stunts with your regrowth during the course of the game which very well could expand its function and utility significantly[/QUOTE]

I would say though unless the execution goes wrong or if their is significant doubt that it is going to go wrong they are not exactly exiting events especially if it is your character being executed.

Take the guillotine example in order to get to the point where you might shrug off the first decapitating blade strike your character is already in no position to actually stop his eventual death or to keep the executioner from simply dropping the very heavy and sharp blade on him one more time.

Not exactly the most entertaining course of affairs unless a right after the last second rescue is in the works which sounds pretty cinematic to me.

Re: Wealth in DF
 

And what is more, if the GM is allowing signature gear and the party is taking advantage of it, it may very well be the case there are reoccuring villians are taking advantage of it as well.

GURPS treats PCs and NPCs as mechanically the same, and good and bad things can happen to both of them.