Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

Oh, certainly... it'll make us much happier.

I'm just saying that a lot of people are building a LOT of expectation on Thaumatology, and I don't think it'll be the "messiah" they're hoping for that'll make magic as adaptable as powers.

Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

What makes you think so?

I'm keeping my hopes high... Phil's pretty clever, and they gotta have more than just more alternate systems in those 272 pages.

Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

That's true. Using RAW all mages will try to have a base spell level of 15, it's simply too advantageous.
I almost always used the optional "skill for energy" rules (where energy reduction is not automatic at 15, but can be achieved by taking a penalty to skill).

Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

Thanks for pointing that one out - I'd missed it when I first went through the list. It doesn't do everything I'd like (adding cutting damage to blunt weapons), but it is an example of exactly the kind of spell that is largely lacking in GURPS Magic: cheap short-term enchantments (because, really, that's what Sharpen is) with durations based on time rather than number of uses.

There are a few more things I would like to have seen in GURPS Magic, and I hope Thaumatology includes some if not all of them:

1) War College. Even if it had just sucked up spells from existing lists like a Hoover. That way a battlecaster wouldn't have to be a college dabbler, and could even take One College Magery.
2) Emanations. Area spells that center on the caster and move with him/her. Just about every Area spell could be duplicated as an Emanation spell with no tweaking of cost: the tradeoff of mobility vs. range seems good enough to me.
3) Combinations. A way to cast two or more spells at the same time, using one skill roll, at a skill penalty or increased FP cost (sort of like combat Combinations in MA, but not quite). Thunderclap + Lightning is a stupid example but it's basically what I'm thinking of.
4) Aspected magic. Another way to do clerical magic, keeping all the prerequisites but making each spell only work on friends or enemies of the caster's religion (depending on the kind of spell it is), with a reduction to skill cost (H -> A, VH -> H) or FP cost.

With the exception of #2, these fill the gap of what I mean by "too generic." Why is there no War College? I don't know - there's no divine law that says there has to be one. And it certainly isn't hard to make a house rule to create it, so I'm not up in arms about the lack of a War College. I get the feeling that the editors of GURPS Magic (over the years) wanted to move away from the D&D battlecaster paradigm (to make it more generic), which is FINE... but a War College would really have come in handy for Dungeon Fantasy 1.

Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

To be fair, a D&D wizard is much more than a battle-mage. Besides throwing fireballs and lightning bolts, he can solve problems from "I can't see" to "Did that fox see any hobbits come waltzing through here recently?" to "Hide, quick!"

The GURPS spell lists seem to cover magical needs nicely.

Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

I don't doubt his engeniousness, however the magical spells (skills) are pretty much arbitrary. There isn't any formula for making them that the editors used and for some reason decided not to tell us.
They were put together in a more or less logical way, priced (fatigue costs included) according to power relative to other spells, but it's basically up to game design and experience.
The "balance" was sorted out in playtest (as far as I know).
There's no hidden mechanic here.

I also don't think that suddenly an alternate and better system is going to coff up out of nowhere.

There may be something about aplying modifiers to spells, magery itself, tips on building spells as powers...

I just don't think that Thaumatology is going to be the revolution a lot of people are hoping for. I'm sure I'll be surprised with a lot of stuff, 4e has a record for surprising me over and over again. But I'd rather not get my hopes up. And as to why I think such a system won't be included (or won't be what everybody's hoping for)... it's just a hunch.

I think the core of the book will be alternate magic systems, yes. Namely the old voodoo and cabal systems. (I don't know the latter though). What I'm hoping is that other things get a lot of attention too!

I'd love to be wrong on this one, and a magic tool-kit coming up... but I don't think I am. Time will tell.

Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

There's nothing wrong with the spell list. It's a wonderful and thorough look at many many magical effects seen in fiction. I was plenty satisfied with 3e Magic+Grimoire and 4e magic added even more to that!

If anyone, after reading that many spell descriptions, is having trouble coming up with new spells then they just aren't very good at it... at all.

The "problem" is not the spell list, it's how it's acessed. There are only a few mechanics to access the spell list, and changing these assumptions can be tricky and unbalancing. Synthatic magic is one example of an alternate way to access the spells, Ritual Magic is another. DF presented 2 clear examples of yet another way: Power Investure.

We need more ways to access the richness of the spell list in ways that can fit more concepts, settings and game-worlds. Current options aren't cutting it (this being the opinion of quite a few people on the boards and a few friends I know that don't use the forum; there's probably a significant percentage out there).

That's what I'm hoping to see in Thaumatology.

Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

Minmaxing is fun, but I don't think everyone does minmaxing all the time.

I for one try to undo my minmaxing sometimes. Saying - well that is cheaper but there is no way my character is that smart.. a 14 iq? no way. My guy is good and understanding magic.. He isn't particularly smart otherwise.

Like a computer geek.. Might be talented in his area but not in everything.

Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

Where's that, or do you mean the 'alternate magical ritual' rules?

Personally I'd like something that let you trade skill for more energy to put into a spell. It would give another reason for Symbol Drawing and the Contagion rules.

Re: Genericness of Magic in GURPS
 

How about energy reduction on a good margin of succes - ie making it somewhat random.