Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

I don't know that we ever really thought it would be this important. To be honest, I've always considered it part of the Bad Stuff, essentially, so I've always just done it after the roll to make things simpler. I don't see the point it trying to make it overly complicated.

Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

Here's a situation I came across when it is important. My wife was fighting a Wraith - lose 2 levels even if you escape, and asmodeus together - bad stuff you're dead. She chose to run away from asmodeus first, arguing that if she failed she wouldn't lose the 2 levels from the wraith, since she would be dead. My argument was that she'd lose the 2 levels anyway, since she couldn't defeat the wraith. Who was right?

Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

She was. The rules say that the player Runs Away from the monsters in the order she chooses. The rules also say that death ends your turn immediately. By dying to Asmodeus, she never had to try to Run Away from the wraith.

Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

That's what we ended up doing - even though the cards are mine! She managed to convince me! It was just confusing with earlier posts.

Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

My advice, if you wish to win more arguments: Get a comfy couch. Then the agony of victory doesn't come with a stiff back and a crick in your neck.

However, aside from marital advice that I may for may not be qualified to give, I will say this: Andrew is correct, and, realistically, it's the simplest and most efficient way of handling things.

Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

the comfy couch can also come in useful when the SO is trying to convince you she's right...

Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

Erik:
What about monsters like the Space Probe that phrase it "...lose 2 Levels if they fail to defeat it, even if they escape"? Were she fighting Asmodeus and the Space Probe, would she have lost those two levels then?

(emphasis mine)

Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

If you fight the monster and win, what happens? Do you still lose the two levels making you end up at the same level as before your fight. Or do you gain two levels?

Thanks

Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

in the case of "the Evil" from M.Bites, there is an instant level loss. Though for a majority of the monsters that apply to this thread, it is only if you have to run away, or if you lose to the monster depending on how the individual card is worded.

There are other cards that have wording on losing various cards/items before the combat begins. Most are fairly easy to figure out. :)

Re: Lose 2 levels even if you escape.
 

In reference to Wight Brothers, Andrew ruled here that "If you die, you do not suffer ANY negative effects from monsters you haven't yet tried to run away from."

Thus, even if the level loss is not technically Bad Stuff, dying at the hands of one monster protects you from the level loss caused by another monster, and that seems like it would cover Space Probe.

An exception might be "the Evil" - I have not seen the text of that card. Grax, does that specify that the level loss occurs before combat?