What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

My self I would port the rules for different sized weapons and armor over.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

Most of the equipment that isn't under the special orders section would fit in just fine in my Banestorm campaign. I'm sure I could use many of the special orders items, too (The leather neck protection, for one, is something one of my players has been agitating for for a while)

I'd cheerfully steal the templates for use as "named character" bad guys or major allied/neutral NPCs - at least as inspiration.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the sorting out of the spell lists into PI-required levels. While I may not use them exactly as written, if I have a game with Power Investiture I'll definitely be revisiting this section and pillaging it for ideas.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

Dungeon Fantasy adds more of a "roleplaying GAME" feel (while standard GURPS is a "ROLEPLAYING game"). I'd use much of DF if I wanted to run a game-heavy campaign, even if it weren't a dungeon crawl campaign. The templates, for starters, are quite valuable. (I kicked myself when I saw the Bard power, wishing I'd thought of it, because it's simple and elegant.)

It's even possible to emulate "levels" in GURPS without completely breaking the realism. By having characters be members of rank-conferring organizations that require certain skills and abilities in order to proceed through the ranks, a GM can set up a series of "stacking" lenses for the base template. For example: novice, apprentice, journeyman, master, leader. To gain a rank in the organization a character would have to spend points on specific skills, advantages, powers and (possibly) spells, encouraging the player to save up CP and spend them appropriately. To make the feeling of "ding! I leveled up!" even more prominent, you could just eliminate the standard GURPS training/studying requirements, and let the character spend the necessary CP all at once, in an instant, once s/he has enough to go up a rank.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

I like this, too, although I'm still a bit twitchy about the idea of eliminating prerequisites for clerics/priests. I handle divine magic differently: the prerequisites are all there, but divine spells are "aspected" (can only be used on "friends" or "enemies" of the deity, depending on the type of spell it is, but rarely on both). As a trade-off, divine spells are one column "easier" - a Hard spell is Average, and a Very Hard spell is Hard. A cleric can potentially have both the regular and aspected versions of a spell (if the deity allows it), but they are separate spells and require separate CP expenditures. All of this in addition to PI and the various requirements the deity imposes.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

Prerequisites are only one way to balance access to spells. DF doesn't actually eliminate the prerequisites, note - it actually replaces them with required levels of Power Investiture. This can actually be a more potent form of control on players, if you don't allow them to buy PI willy nilly.

Obviously DF basically does let you buy PI willy nilly, but in a more serious game I would have "time in grade" restrictions, required "displays of piety", minimum number of "charitable works", successful completion of god-given quests, or some other system of requirements to fulfill before acquiring more PI. If nothing else, a mundane series of exams and interviewing, represented by simple tests or Regular Contests of Theology, Public Speaking, Writing, History (our religion), and/or some other skills.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

Not having compared Magic 4e with DF yet, I can't say for sure, but my assumption was that the PI lists simply indicated which spells required what level of Magery (converted to PI). (If I'm wrong, then ignore the rest of this...) So the restrictions are there, yes, but they are only a partial selection of the restrictions normally assigned to each spell. The "time in grade" restrictions you describe are good, but I should think they'd apply to Magery as well, which makes the PI lists still significantly less restrictive than the standard spell prereq system.

IMO, the magic system itself (for divine and mana-based magic both) should be balanced without reference to other disads that *might* be applicable for a given character. So while one could argue that Duty and other disads or conditions make a divine spellcaster just as restricted as a normal mage, that doesn't help the magic system's internal balance. A mage could have the same restrictions (outside the magic system), and then would be at a disadvantage relative to his cleric brother, who has no magic system prereqs other than PI.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

This reminds me of a question I've been pondering. Magery has a One College Only limitation available. What would be the best way to extrapolate this out to Two Colleges Only, etc.?

What I'm thinking of is a type of mage who starts with access only to one college, then as s/he progresses in knowledge gains access to others (by buying more "types" of Magery). I could deal with this without rules by simply limiting the types of magical knowledge that are available in the world, I suppose, but I like making things difficult for myself.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

The DF:A list is not just the standard Magery requirement. Standard magic has most spells not requiring any Magery and the absolute highest requirement being Magery 3. As opposed to PI 1 for only about 1/5 of a drastically reduced spell list in DF:A.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

Oh, good point! That'll teach me to skim. Thanks, I'm liking that list a lot more now.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

The equipment rules. I've seldom seen a template I liked and DF:A is no exception.

Fred Brackin

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

You are wrong. No spell requires magery of more than three, I am not sure if any require more than magery 2.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

My view is, with the due treatment -although that doesn't necessarily easy-, all of it could be useful in a serious fantasy game.

Great links & great work! I didn't know "It Came from the Forums", nice entries... I want to give thanks to you for the compilation work and to all participants for that nice work:

Atreyu Hibiki, Bruno, Cernig, Collective Restraint, D-Flash, DieMunchkin, Gold & Appel Inc, Highland Piper, Knight Marshal, Lonewulf, LWCamp, Rasputin, Rupert, Sandy Mac, Vinny.

Really.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

They didn't have stocks before the 19th century?

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

I'm fairly partial to the powers section myself. Nothing too fancy, but you could use much of that in more serious or lower-point games.

And, like Bruno said, equipment is also a good section.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

I'd use most of it!
Not all at once, of course, but most of Dungeon Fantasy ideas, powers, items can be occasionally used in any fantasy campaign to add a "heroic" (or "d&desque") feeling.

Of course if you use all of it, as written, your campaign will be a hack&slash with "classes", which may be consideret "not so serious" by many players.
But you can pick almost anything and use it in a more low-powered, detailed or "realistic" fantasy campaign.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

Kromm answered this a few days back:

http://forums.sjgames.com/newreply.p...reply&p=511511

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

I mostly agree. I think the "seriousness" depends very much of the quality of the roleplaying-story-setting elements you throw in it (if you want to do it!).

I missed that thread. Thanks for the link.

Re: What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game
 

Fantastic. Thanks!