GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I'm planning to run a GURPS Dungeon Fantasy game, and it seems to me that Dungeon Fantasy needs racial templates. Since all the class templates are the same number of points, I think that all the racial templates should be too. Therefore I am starting this thread to post 25 point racial templates.

These templates are designed to fit the spirit of Dungeon Fantasy and to be inexpensive, therefore they tend to have lower characteristic adjustments than current racial templates from Fantasy, Banestorm and the Basic set.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Gurps Dungeon Fantasy Human Template - 25 point

If all the other races get 25 point templates, than so should humans for point balance reasons.

Human [+25 points]

Luck [15] (if the character already has Luck from their class template, raise it to Extraordinary Luck)
and Skills [10] - 10 points in skills, at least 5 points worth from their class template, and 5 points in any others.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Elf

Elf [+25 points]

DX +1 [20], PER +1 [5], Attractive Appearance [+4], Gifted Artist Talent/1 [5] OR Musical Ability Talent/1 [5], Magery 0 [5], Unaging [5]*, Racial skill bonus to Bow +1 [2], Night Vision/4 [4], Elven Code of Honor [-10], Sense of Duty - Nature [-15]

* I am deliberately reducing the cost of all aging related advantages and disadvantages for GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, on the assumption that most Dungeon Fantasy campaigns won't last long enough, in game time, for them to matter as much.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Goblin

Goblin [+25 points]

ST -1 [-10], DX +1 [20], Size Modifier -1 [0], Darkvision [25], Silence/1, [5], Impulsiveness 15- [-5] OR Cowardice 15- [-5], Social Stigma - Minority Group [-10].

Yes -1 STR and Size Modifier -1 makes them fairly strong for their size, this is deliberate. If you don't think a small humanoid can be strong, go arm wrestle a chimp.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Dwarf

Dwarf [+25]

HT +1 [10], FP +1 [3], Move -1 [-5], Talent - Artificer/1 [10], DR 1 (tough skin -40%) [3], Extended Lifespan/1 [1]*, Lifting STR +2 [6], Longevity [1]*, Nightvision/6 [6], Resistant to Poison +3 [5], Racially Learned Skills Axe/Mace [DX] [2], and Merchant [IQ] [2], Greed 15- [-7], Miserliness 15- [-5], Stubborn [-5], Quirk - Chauvinistic [-1], Quirk - Likes Gold [-1], Taboo Traits - Jumping and Running Skills [0]

* I am deliberately reducing the cost of all aging related advantages and disadvantages for GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, on the assumption that most Dungeon Fantasy campaigns won't last long enough, in game time, for them to matter as much.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GUPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Halfling

Halfling [+25]

ST -2 [-20], DX +1 [20], HT +1 [10], Size Modifier -1 [0], HP +2 [4], Acute Hearing +1 [2], Halfling Ranged Weapon Talent/2 [10], Silence/1 [5], Social Regard/1 - Good Neighbor [5], Chummy [-5], Gluttony [-5], Quirk - Staid [-1].

The +2 hit points are used to bring their average hit points up to those of a human, to fit the spirit of that other game, and to ensure that they are viable in a combat heavy genre like Dungeon Fantasy.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Pretty nice templates. Good work! ;-)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Half-Orc

Half-Orc [+25]

ST +1 [10], IQ -1 [-20], HT +1 [10], Per +1 [5], Hit Points +2 [4], Acute Hearing +1 [2], Dark Vision [25], Social Stigma - Minority Group [-10], Quirk - Distractable [-1].

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I wouldn't do it this way:

1) If we imagine all humans in your world would have luck - what would this be? With a view only on humans competing against each other no one would have luck because they 'neutralize' each other on the other hand all other races would probably be social underdogs if they are all "unlucky" in comparison to the human race...

2) Racial Skills? I don't think there is good explanation for this, you could rather think of regional or society-specific skills if you want this kind of things...

3) The GURPS-System is built on the axiom that humans are 0 points changing this could have unforeseen consequences...

4) As for "balance reasons" I don't think there is a need for racial templates to have the same point cost: IMHO a 'template' is not the final character but a kind of framework for the character: So if we had e.g. 150 cp overall and all 'templates' would cost 125 cp the player can decide what to do with the last 25 cp: he/she could take a racial-template for 25cp or maybe one for 20cp and the last 5 cp are spent for skills or maybe no one but a 25cp advantage etc. ... (but all chars would have the same cp - balanced)

Your template looks nice so far but in my opinion you should also think about a disadvantage-limit or maybe even better a static negative point-cost for disads for the racial templates if you want them to be balanced...

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Reptile Men

Reptile Men [+25]

ST +2 [20], IQ -1 [-20], HT +2 [20], DR/2 (tough skin -40%) [6], Nicitating Membrane/2 [+2], Peripheral Vision [15], Sharp Claws [5], Sharp Teeth [1],
Racially Learned skill - Survival (home terrain) [Per-1] [1], Social Stigma - Minority Group [-10], Shyness - Mild [-5], Stuttering (hissing) [-10].

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Not to quibble, but you gave one semi-underground race only Night Vision (Dwarf), and two semi-underground races Dark Vision. Perhaps swap Dark Vision out for Night vision there, and give them light sources underground if they live such.

As far as point costs, going with the same costs makes sense, as its more a plug-in-the-template for DF. Adding points to a human also parallels d20 where choosing another race removes 1 feat and some skill points from the total. However, using the idea that humans are a 0-point baseline package, the racial templates could be added for consideration in the optional parts of the class templates (all of them have "a further 20+ points added" sections).

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Hobgoblin

Hobgoblin [+25]

ST +1 [10], DX +1 [20], IQ -1 [-20], HT + 1 [10], Darkvision [25], Bad Temper 15- [-5] OR Stubbornness [-5], Social Stigma - Uneducated [-5], Social Stigma - Minority Group [-10].

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Except that they have 25 points in other advantages; including higher skills, higher advantages, higher DX, or higher other abilities. "Lucky" does not make or break a character in comparison with this, even with Extraordinary Luck (which is 30 points anyways, and 30 points in equivalent advantages can buy you all sorts of things. Think about it: In an Easy skill, 28 of those points would give you DX+8! DX+7 in Average, DX+6 in Hard).

I think he's operating on the D&D system, which gives you +1 Feat and extra skill points. You could say that humans tend to learn more than other races in an equivalent amount of time, or just put in the "gain extra points" thing as a balancing thing more than a "race" thing. *Shrugs*

I fail to see how.

In my GURPS Wasteland game, I give all humans either a [7] template or a [-5] template, making them +7 or -5 points each.

I fail to see how this would cause unintended consequences, any moreso than giving any race a template?

But the point is to make it easy to add and substract from the templates given in Dungeon Fantasy, which are also all 250 points.

Personally, I like it.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I'm going with the upcoming 4th Ed Dungeons and Dragons decision to say that Dwarves are only a semi-underground race. They have removed Dark Vision from D&D Dwarves and give them Low-Light Vision instead, my Dwarven template reflects this. The other races with Dark Vision have more of an 'attacks at night' archetype, so I left them with Dark Vision. You could change this, of course, and I'll admit that part of the reason those races have Dark Vision and not Night Vision was to raise their template point totals. If you want to change them, I'd suggest replacing Dark Vision with Night Vision/5 and using the other 20 point on stats.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Some current official Gurps templates already include racially learned skills. In Dungeon Fantasy stereotypes Humans tend to be more diverse and more skilled than other races, therefore I included skills in the Human Template but left the selection of what skills they were undetermined. Many genres of fiction include the notion that humans are able to compete with other races who are individually superior because humans have determination and pluckiness. I chose to model this in GURPS tems with Luck, thereby reflecting the human ability to succeed in a crisis with the GURPS ability to use Luck to reroll failed rolls. I don't think the fact that this makes all the other races 'Unlucky' compared to humans is either a big deal or matters in Dungeon Fantasy [1], if I were running GURPS Professional Gamblers of Multiple Races, I'd do it differently.

You're quite right that since the different races have different ammounts of racial disadvantages they may not be perfectly balanced. I just don't think that it matters for Dungeon Fantasy, I wouldn't do it this way in some other genres. Most of the templates have no more than 50 points in advantages, and no more than 25 points in disadvantages (not counting reduced characteristics as disadvantages if they're 'cancelled out' by increases to other characteristics). The human template deliberately has no disadvantages because I don't think that there are any sterotypical disadvantages that all humans have, either in reality or in Dungeon Fantasy.

The fact that these templates are all going to be 25 points does mean that some cool Fantasy races can't be included, at least not without throwing on crippling levels of disadvantages. Fortunately many of these races don't have a strong tradition as player characters in Dungeon Fantasy, because they don't fit in the dungeon (Dragons (unless very young), Centaurs, Giants), don't do well on land (Devilfish, Dolphin, Merfolk, Shark Men), are too powerful or unbalanced for the genre (Djinn Ascended Ones, Vampires, Faerie, Sphinxes, Trolls) or are even too weak (Kobalds). Some of these races might be point balanced if they took just a racial template, and skipped the class template, but I'm not going to do it that way in my upcoming Dungeon Fantasy campaign because I think that archetypes are a big part of Dungeon Fantasy.

[1] There are some genres other than Dungeon Fantasy where I don't think that it matters either. If I was running a GURPS Science Fantasy game like Star Trek or Star Wars, I'd probably use a similar (Luck and skills) template for humans to balance alien racial templates, but that is a topic for another thread.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Good Job pnewman, very nice set of templates.

You set the ground rule for 25 point templates, therefore your choice to have a 25 point Human template, and to choose Night Vision for Dwarves and Darkvision for Goblins etc to balance things is fine.
Different people will have different opinions on what are the right characteristics for a particular race, and how 2 different races should be compared to each other.

I wouldn't have made the same choices on some of the templates, but they all seem like appropriate interpretations of what each race should be like, and should feel right in a DF game.

As a side note, the Cleric, Druid, Martial Artist and Scout Templates in DF each only have 20 points to choose Advantages from !

On to my comments (and my own opinions):

I wouldn't have a Human Template for similar reasons as already mentioned, especially since part of the Human Template is to choose Skills (and why not Advantages) from the Professional Template - why not just make the Racial Templates another available Advantage to choose from, no Racial Template = Human, who spend those points on the standard Professional Template list of Advantages and Skills, etc

This then leads to not needing each Racial Template to be exactly the same cost. I probably wouldn't want Racial Templates to be too expensive, otherwise you'd be restricting Racial Templates based on the available 'Free Points' within each Professional Template. e.g. a 40 point Race could only be a Knight or Swashbuckler, and a Cleric could only be a Race with a point cost of 20 or less !

It looks like you've used Banestorm as reference material (Social Regard/Good Neighbour in the Halfling Template !), which is what I would do, along with the 3e Fantasy Folk, along with Eric B. Smith's conversions of those to 4e!

For the Elf Template, BS gives them +1 DX and +1 IQ, where as FF(4e) gives them +1 IQ and Perfect Balance. - I'd probably opt for +1 IQ instead of +1 DX.

+1 IQ for Elves would allow you to use the BS Half-Elf Template at 27 points, 26 with reduced cost for Extended Lifespan, with a Quirk of some kind to make the cost 25!

As for the Dark Vision/Night Vision question -
I don't agree with this interpretation of Dwarves at all. Dwarves (to my mind) live primarily underground, with no natural light source, Dark Vision suits them much better.
The cost is a bit too much for the Dwarven template, and both Banestorm and FF(4e) use NightVision for Dwarves anyway!

'Attacks at Night' races immediately implies 'Night Vision' to me - there is usually some light at night!

I have been thinking about Fantasy Racial Templates for another project, and with regards Dungeon Fantasy when the subject came up in various threads in the last couple ok weeks, but I hadn't got around to writing anything down - you've given me a great starting point to get on with own templates!

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

The other point on Racial Templates with Dungeon Fantasy is how to handle overlapping Advantages in each template - the obvious one (possibly the only problematic one) is Magery - i.e. Elf-Wizard

The Elf Template has Magery 0 [5]
The Wizard Template has Magery 3 [35]

Together these make [40] points in Magery, or Magery 3½ ??

While it is simple enough to just say the Elf-Wizard has Magery 3, that leaves [5] spare points floating about.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I've already found points 'floating around' in many of the templates; several have both Esoteric Medicine and points spent on First Aid, for instance, and in some cases selecting certain skill combinations results in buying up skills from an improved default (Rapier and Main-gauche on a Swashbuckler, for instance) which 'frees up' some points. I tend to think of the templates more as guidelines than actual rules as a result (with thanks to Captain Barbossa).

The swashbuckler I've built for the DF game being run here, for example, upgraded Weapon Master to 2-weapon (rapier + main-gauche) and made a few other minor changes not included in the template but which suit my personal playstyle.

That said, I really would have aimed for 20 points instead of 25 on racial templates for DF; Kromm's noted that it's likely to be the way he goes about it when it becomes official, and some templates just don't have 25 points to throw around.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Since the templates all include at least 20 floating points, and you can get 5 points from quirks, you can take a 25-point racial template with any class template.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I hadn't seen the 20 point comment, but the 25 points for these templates aren't supposed to come from the 250 point class templates, these are supposed to be 25 _additional_ points, making 275 point characters. If I were going to try to fit racial templates into spare points on the class templates I'd have done it differently. This is just my thoughts on 'Pick a class and a race for your character.'

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Dark Elves

Dark Elf [+25 points]

DX +1 [20], PER +1 [5], Attractive Appearance [+4], Magery 0 [5], Unaging [5]*, Dark Vision [25], Racially Learned Skill - Savoir-Faire-Dark Elf [IQ] [1], Racial Skill Bonus to Crossbow [1], Bad Temper [-10] OR Bloodlust [-10] OR Bully [-10] OR Meglomania [-10] OR any combination of these totalling -10, Callous [-5], Intolerance - Species (Total) [-10], Quirk - Especially intolerant of surface elves [-1], Reputation -3 from almost everyone, always recognized, as 'evil' [-15], Reputation +3 from 'evil' people (small group) always recognized [+5] [this stacks with the overall reputation penalty giving Dark Elves a base +0 Reputation from evil people], Selfish [-5].

This Dark Elf is not intended to be a Banestorm type 'cultural' Dark Elf, this is a 'lives deep underground and is visually distinguishable' Drow like Dark Elf. Even if you think that some of the other templates should have Night Vision, and not Dark Vision, this template should have Dark Vision. I am assuming that the Dark Elven Skill bonus to Crossbow should cost less than the Elven bonus to Bow, because Crossbow in an Easy skill. The template includes Savoir-Faire because I am assuming that, given their temperments, Dark Elves have to have learned their manners, or they'd have been killed by another Dark Elf already. If a specific dark Elf is especially skilled at the Disguise skill or illusion Magic they might be able to, or required to, buy down the frequency of recognition on their Reputation.

To reflect a 'good' Dark Elf change some or all of the racial psychological disadvantages to something more heroic, and buy an individual reputation as a 'good guy' to help cancel out the negative racial reputation.

* I am deliberately reducing the cost of all aging related advantages and disadvantages for GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, on the assumption that most Dungeon Fantasy campaigns won't last long enough, in game time, for them to matter as much.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Honestly, I'd say let the human template remain at 0, and let the humans spend their extra 25 points on whatever they wish. One of the hallmarks of humankind is their ability to be flexible. Having their template 0cp means they will be that much more flexible. One might buy +1DX, 4 points in Bow, and 1 point in fastdraw arrow. Another might have +1 IQ, and a further +1 will or perception. Another might have luck, and another might have wealth. Let the human player have the advantage that comes with being a human with the flexibility.

Nope, disagree here. One of the greatest strengths of templates is ignoring the disad limit for a campaign. However, the disadvantages are that it's an all or none thing. You get all the traits in the package, which means it's powerful but inflexible. Again, leans to humankind's benefit as humans don't have a disadvantage in the template that may not fit the character archetype. I do agree with the idea about the template being variable point cost, up to the campaign limit. A powerful template would make taking disads required to customize the character at all. Here's the only place I'd consider the template's disads in the design of the character, and it'd be on a Player by Player basis, making sure someone didn't try to take a powreful template then load disads on it to go over the board. Freshly hatched Hatchling Dragon, for instance, might cost 150cp, with 300 points in advantages and -150 points in disadvantages. In a template like that, I might limit the player to at most 10 points in disads to buy up to 10 points in skills only. (Note, Hatchling Dragon is based on the Palladium concept, where they come out of the egg with some skills already)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

To divorce your concept from D&D, one thing you might consider is going the opposite with the Dark Elves. Instead of black skin, make them pale skinned with dark hair. Under-ground creatures tend to have light skin colors, not dark.

A way to break the Drow mold, if you will.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Of course, even if they have white skin, they'll look black in their natural habitat since they don't really have a need for light =-P

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Canonically, that's not so, and I agree with the RAW.

A bonus to a very hard skill is just as point-useful as a bonus to an easy skill, since it costs the same to increase your chance of success by 1 when buying the skill. Regardless of whether 8 points brings a skill to IQ+0 or IQ+3, it'll take another 4 points to increase it one more step.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I would just create a "racial talent" that gives a bonus to the skills in question....then worry about balancing the talents across templates....if you feel the need to.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Two ways I see in GCA, which can assist;

Racial Skill Bonus, with 2pts per level up to 3, giving level bonuses.

Racial Skill Point Bonus, giving a set number of points to the skill.

I know templates in GCA are going with the second for many templates. The main difference is in skill level. The first way, if you have 4 points in a skill, and Racial Skill Bonus, its only costing half as much for the levels. And, if you have only a point in the skill, its costing 2x for one level, 1 more for 2 levels, and 2 more for 3 levels. This is much like a Racial Talent in one skill.

The second way, the points count as if spent, so leave extra points if the combination of bonus and spent points isn't enough to raise the level.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Pale skin and black hair is the Warhammer and Allansia (Fighting Fantasy) look of the dark elves. I prefer that look too as it makes more sense to have dark elves pale skinned because of the lack of exposure to the sun (since they live underground).

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

In my game worlds, I tend to make the differences between Elves and Dark Elves primarily Cultural. In my Megacity in the desert campaign, Dark elves were the ones that lived in tribes, wore tattoos and shot human encroachers from behind rocks, but looked just like all the other elves.

This removes skin color as a way to detect evil (which always bothered me about how D&D handles "good" and "evil" versions of the same races) and simultaneously allows Dark Elves to permeate regular society, by wearing clothes that cover their tattoos and taking jobs in the City.

But, if you're trying to emulate D&D, then Dark Elves have a lot of 'background' written for them, and part of that assumption is the skin color, I'm afraid.

-P.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I agree with that.

Besides, I think "symbolic" reasons for a colour (evil, darkness = black) are suited in Fantasy, equating these dark elves (in a straitghforward way, ok) with the most apparent "meaning" of that colour.

If we were regarding them as an Sci-Fi "race", then the biologic viewpoint could have some weight, however.

Edit: of course, dark elves with black skin and its most apparent meaning, has no relation with real world black people.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Just call them "Shadow Elves", to distinguish them from the typical Banestorm Dark Elves. Heck, just to shake things up, you don't have to make them all Evil. Instead, they're just a splintered Elven subrace, while the surface-dwelling Dark Elves generally give all Elves a bad name.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I'm not going to let this thread die. So here are some Beastmen races of my own design:

Wolfen [25 points]
Attribute Modifiers: ST+1 [10]; HT +1 [10]
Advantages:Acute Hearing +2 [4]; Acute Taste and Smell +2 [4]; Discriminatory Smell [15]; Fur [1]; Sharp Teeth [1]
Disadvantages: Bad Temper (15) [-5]; Colorblindness [-10]; Overconfidence (12) [-5]
Features: Tail

Bastet [25 points]
Attribute Modifiers: ST-1 [-10]; DX+1 [20]
Advantahes: Acute Hearing +2 [4]; Acute Taste and Smell 1 [2]; Catfall [10]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Sharp Claws [1]; Temperature Tolerance 1 [1]
Disadvantages: Impulsiveness (12) [-10]; Overconfidence (12) [-5]; Sleepy (1/2 of the time) [-8]
Features: Purring voice, tail

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

No fur on the felines?

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

D'oh! Okay, can't believe I missed that. Fur wasn't in the Characters Felinoid template that I used as a model, so I forgot to add it. Okay, adding Fur, but instead of removing anything, I'll add a quirk appropriate to felines - Proud.

Modified template:
Bastet [25 points]
Attribute Modifiers: ST-1 [-10]; DX+1 [20]
Advantahes: Acute Hearing +2 [4]; Acute Taste and Smell 1 [2]; Catfall [10]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Fur [1] Sharp Claws [1]; Temperature Tolerance 1 [1]
Disadvantages: Impulsiveness (12) [-10]; Overconfidence (12) [-5]; Sleepy (1/2 of the time) [-8];
Quirk: Proud [-1]
Features: Purring voice, tail

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Not all humans have luck! But all those who go on GURPS Dungeon Fantasy adventures do!

Nah, too complicated, just give humans those 10 points to spend on any skills they wish.

Dude, this is Dungeon Fantasy... consequences are at the treasure chest down the dungeon!


Overall, you are missing the point of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy :)


EDIT: Argh, I responded to the topic before I saw the OP date (don't know how I missed the topic before), I suppose some of this has already been said :)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Caveman

Caveman [+25 points]

ST +2 [20], HT + 2 [20],
DR 1 (skull only -70%) [2] DR 1 (tough skin -40%) [3], Fit [5], Talent/Stalker/1 [5], Temperature Tolerance (Cold) 1 [1], Terrain Adaptation - Snow [5], Racially learned Skill - Survival/Arctic - IQ [2]

Speaks Caveman (native/none] [-3], Primitive TL 0 [-15], Social Stigma - Outsider [-10], Social Stigma - Uneducated [-5], Short Lifespan 1 [-1]*, Quirkes - Dull [-1], Staid [-1], Humble [-1], Dislikes Machinery [-1]
Taboo Traits - Other languages at more than Broken fluency [0], Any written languages at more than Broken fluency [0]

* I am deliberately reducing the cost of all aging related advantages and disadvantages for GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, on the assumption that most Dungeon Fantasy campaigns won't last long enough, in game time, for them to matter as much.

A primitive survivor of a bygone era, your people struggle to survive in a frozen wilderness. One of a very few of your people to move to the Warmlands, you probably took the Barbarian or Druid Template.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Racial Template - Ogre

Ogre [+25]

ST + 10 (size -10%) [90], DX -1 [-20], IQ -2 [-40], Per + 1 [5], HT +3 [30], Size Modifier +1 [0], Basic Move +1 [5]. DR 3 (tough skin (-40%) [9], High Pain Threshold [10], Racially leaned Skill - Cooking w/ a specialization in cooking sentients - IQ (IQ outside specialization) [1].

Gluttony [-5], Ugly Appearance [-8], Social Stigma - Monster [-15], Odious Racial Habit (Eats other sentients) [-15], Primitive TL 0 [-15], Social Stigma - Uneducated [-5], Quirkes - Distractible [-1], Likes Fighting [-1].

They run and call you 'Monster!' You'll show the puny ones just what a 'monster' can do. They'll never mock you once you've eaten them.

This race is probably not suitable for most campaigns, and was more of a test
to see if I could do them with 25 points.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

...

Gargoyle [25 points]
Attribute Modifiers: IQ-1 [-20]; Per +1 [5]
Advantages: Acute Vision +2 [4]; Sharp Claws [5]; DR +2 (Tough Skin) [6]; Flight (Winged) [30]; Night Vision +4 [4]; Striker Horns (Cr Cannot Parry, Limited Arc) [1]; Striker Tail (Cannot Parry, Weak) [1]
Disadvantages: Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]; Shyness or Curiosity [-5]
Skills: Climbing DX+0 [2]; Flight HT+0 [2]

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

FWIW, I am working on a third DF PDF right now, and it will include some racial templates. To prevent any chance that I might read this thread and steal somebody's ideas, I'm not reading this thread, but hiding it from myself (all hail admin powerz!). So please don't take my lack of input here personally . . . and don't be surprised if the "official" cat-girl, troll, etc., are nothing like the ones that will eventually show up here. ;) Especially as I'm deliberately creating totally different races from Banestorm and Fantasy, but reusing the names.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

You know that if you steal ideas, people would most likely be pleased that their write-up made it in the book. Acknowledgments would be welcome, I guess, but not vital for something as minor as a template.

And you have a legal right to steal whatever is posted on these forums. ;)

So steal away, Line Editor. ;)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I did something similar for a just-for-fun that-other-game conversion (never intended for a real campaign, but got two one-shot-tests), races also had 25 points each (except kobolds, which were -25, but they are supposed to suck...).

Humans had no fixed racial advantages but rather, each class template included a "human boost" of 25 points, usually including both enhancements to the classes core ability and a bit of on-the-sides extra stuff not every regular class member had.


One thing I would definitely be wary of (from experience) is "balancing" combat-related advantages with social disadvantages in a dungeon-centric game. ST, HP and DR are especially "dangerous" in this regard.
The Ogre is an extreme example, because any opponent who is though enough DR-wise to prove a considerable challenge to a regular (e.g. human) fighter will not make much difference to an Ogre. Most likely, he will still be knocked down with a single blow (4d damage or more including class bonus to ST, x1.5 for an edged weapon or x2 for a pick)...
Add to that the DR. Even with only furs, your ogre will likely be equal with a chainmailed human, and has the potential to become nigh-invulnerable to run-off-the-mill cannon-fodder dungeon denizens. This does not even take his extra +10 HP into account, which makes him extremely hard to stun or otherwise disable (added to by +3 HT).
You can't even outrun him with his BM bonus and probably at most light encumbrance even in very heavy armor.
Basically, the only way to get at him is using mind-control, and thats more or less a death sentence for the rest of the PCs. Should be really fun for the other players if he can do everything alone.

The 10% or so of the adventure in a town (getting quest and provisions, selling loot)? Let one of the other guys do it while Mr. Smashy waits outside. 90% of the adventure belong to him anyway. Or just level the town and take what you need, let's see how a few poorly-equipped militia guys tell a plate-over-chainmail clad ogre that they don't want him in the town square... (yeah, thats where the ogre players extra CPs will go to... Signature Gear).


Now, you mentioned that you probably won't allow Ogres as PCs, but the same goes to an extend for other "physical" races. In a dungeon, the social difficulties are basically free points, even when reduced in disadvantage point value...


The whole thing probably won't be a problem with the races spending a good deal of their points on Darkvision like Hobgoblins (because most dungeon crawls don't deal with illumination too much when it gets in the way of a good hack, so 25 points are likely overpriced).
But the Caveman (I really like your writeup btw.) could be a problem once he gets his hands on decent equipment (his pals can show him how to use it) because he'd just be a plain better fighter than, say, an elf, and not by a negligible amount. The Reptile Man even more, because of disadvantages with probably even less impact and a higher DR (decent natural weapons are also handy in a grapple).


Actually, when playing a mage in such a dungeon crawl game, I will always take more HP (through ST, which also allows carrying a bit more armor), HT (FP for casting!) and DR over a single point in IQ. This may differ if you use standard GURPS Magic rules (which I don't usually use) and the mage template is designed to put you exactly at the reduced cost mark with one point per spell, but even then I'd go with the extra survival skills (reduced cost is somewhat balanced by the +2 FP through HT).

I know that when I tried something like this with my players, it became a monster parade...


PS: I could upload my version somewhere if you like, but it won't help too much because it is rather unbalanced in the way I described).



EDIT: Kromm posted while I was writing this monster post, so:
As Icelander said, go ahead and take what you like (though I guess you'll have fun building your own anyway). You can even make additional money by selling official "Kromm stole my template"-T-Shirts through warehouse 23... :)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Great! Good news.

I would wish your full initial 240 page Dungeon Fantasy outline could reach eventually the light of released publications, in some way.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Agree with the above but he might be baiting us to write about him where we think he won't read it :)

Just kidding!

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Sweet! Looking forward to it.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Why steal? I'm glad to give away those templates I made!

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Quoting for Truth.

To a lesser extent, beware balancing basically social advantages with physical disadvantages - your players will never use templates like this if they mentally run the numbers, and if they do by accident, they'll be annoyed at the results.

Especially if Mr. Smashy is in the same party.

Obviously a player can build a character with +5 ST, gigantism, and -45 points in social disadvantages, but here's a place where the suggested disad limits come into play - there's only so much minmaxing the player can do. Because templates don't have a disad limit, and the flaws don't count towards your characters limit, you can accidentally munchkin out the template and end up with a party full of ogres.

Attribute penalties are OK, but try not to balance a tank character by debuffing IQ or the only way you'll be able to stop it him by hexing him until he sings I'm A Little Teapot while murdering the other PCs with his ubertwinked PC (as previously noted by Smirg). Buy down IQ for big dumb races, but consider strongly buying Will back up again (And possibly Per too). It's sort of ANTI-IQ! and therefore anti-munchkin.

A good place to go for points for an uberstrong race is DX - you're lowering its attack power and defenses and Move that way. Move, incidentally, is another decent place to go for points.

Consider physical problems - perhaps Ogres have a Bad Smell (they usually do) and No Sense of Smell. Now you have a PC who can complain about everyone else complaining about his stink, and no idea why he's attracting all those carrion crawlers and gelatinous cubes. ;)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

No one thought up a gnome yet?

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Which flavor? Gadgeteer? Illusionist? Forest-warden? Bard?

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Here's one that I came up with for my own world setting:

Gnomes
25 points
Attribute Adjustments: ST -2 [-20]; IQ +2 [40].
Secondary Characteristic Adjustments: SM -2; HP +2 [4]; Will -2 [-10]; Per -2 [-10]; Basic Move -1 [-5]
Advantages: Acute Taste and Smell 3 [6]; Artificer Talent 1 [10]; Extended Lifespan 1 (×2) [2]; High Manual Dexterity 2 [10]; Longevity [2]; Magery 0 [5].
Perks: Sanitized Metabolism [1].
Disadvantages: Bad Sight (Nearsighted) (Mitigator: Glasses, -60%) [-10].

Gnomes are a small, inquisitive folk. They are similar to dwarves in that they live for over two centuries and are master craftsmen, but are smaller and not as strong. They have sensitive noses, which tend to be longer than most other races'. (Yes, gnomes have gnoses.)

Gnomes have nimble fingers and are naturally near-sighted. Like dwarves, gnomes tend to have beards; however, gnome beards are generally kept short; this is more for aesthetic rather than practical reasons.

Obviously, this is only a 25 point template if spectacles are available in the setting.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Goblins
25 points
Attribute Adjustments: ST -2 [-20]; DX +2 [40].
Secondary Characteristic Adjustments: SM -2; Basic Move -1 [-5].
Advantages: Acute Vision 2 [4]; Clinging [20]; Silence 3 [15]; Slippery 3 [6].
Disadvantages: Appearance (Unattractive) [-4]; Bad Back (Mild) [-15]; Easy to Kill -2 [-4]; Short Lifespan -1 [-10]; Weak Bite [-2].

Goblins are small, weak humanoids with greenish tinted skin. They are expert climbers, with microscopic claws which enable them to stick to most rough surfaces. They are also able to move without making noises, and excrete a clear substance which makes it difficult for others to hold onto them. This same substance, known as 'goblin slime' among other races, also lets them move through spaces that would normally be too small for others of the same size, such as gnomes and halflings, to get through. This same slime is a valued alchemical component for stealth elixirs.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I just dug out my that-other-game conversion race templates (25 points, or -25 for kobolds). A few shoot way beyond the target by exaggerating regular traits but make the races play a bit more unique (full-blown Illusion for gnomes, nearsighted in sunlight rather than just a different base light level).
And, as mentioned, most of the savage races (except kobolds and goblins) totally dominate the regular ones in a dungeon crawl.

Honestly, if I considered making a dungeon-crawl game, I wouldn't use the races as presented here (as I mentioned before, I did the conversion for fun, not to actually use it). For such a game, I'd start by cutting all non-combat relevant abilities (and disadvantages!) by half in point cost - at least.


Dwarves (4’3”, 150 lbs.):
HP +1, HT +1, Basic Move -1, SM -1, Extended Lifespan 1, Infravision, Resistant (poisons, +3 HT), Dwarven Craftsmanship 1, Stable, Odious Racial Habit (gruff) [-5]

Dwarven Craftsmanship Talent: Architecture, Armoury, Engineer, Machinist, Masonry, Smith
Stable Perk: +1 to resist being knocked down such as slams or trips, but not knockdown+stun


Elves (5’, 115 lbs.):
ST -1, DX +1, Per +1, HT -1, Appearance: Attractive, Extended Lifespan 2, Less Sleep (4 hours), Night Vision 5, one of Broadsword, Rapier or Bow (DX-1) [1], Treehugger, Chauvinistic (non-elves)

Treehugger Quirk: Minor Sense of Duty towards preserving nature


Gnomes (3’3”, 42 lbs.):
ST -2, HP +2, HT +1, Basic Move -1, SM -1, Extended Lifespan 1, Illusion {from GURPS Powers p. 94}, Night Vision 5, Resistant (illusions, +3 IQ) [1], Speak with animals (burrowing mammals, 4 min/day), Curious (12, machines and alchemy only) [-2]


Half-Elves (5’3”, 135 lbs.):
Per +1, Night Vision 5, Social Chameleon, Diplomat 1

Diplomat Talent: Acting, Carousing, Detect Lies, Diplomacy, Fast-Talk, Leadership, Politics, Public Speaking, Savoir-Faire, Sex Appeal, Streetwise.


Halflings (3’, 32 lbs.):
ST -2, DX +2, Will +1, Basic Move -1, SM -1, Acute Hearing 1, Agility 1, Fearlessness 1, one of Thrown Weapon (any, DX) or Sling (DX-2) [1], Curious (12)

Agility Talent: Acrobatics, Climbing, Escape, Jumping, Stealth, Throwing


Half-Orcs (6’, 215 lbs.):
ST +2, HP +2, IQ -1, Per +1, Infravision, Fearlessness +3


Humans (5’6”, 160 lbs.):
Humans receive class-dependant boosts to relevant abilities.


Gnolls (7’6”, 300 lbs.):
ST +4, HP +2, IQ -1, Per +1, HT +2, SM +1, Damage Resistance 1 (tough skin), Fur, Infravision, Gluttony (15), Social Stigma (monster), Odious Racial Habit (eat other sentients) [-15], Disturbing Laughter, Scream Connoisseur

Disturbing Laughter Quirk: -1 to social and reaction rolls if amused. +5 on Mimicry (hyena)
Scream Connoisseur Quirk: slight sadism, gnolls like to hear intelligent beings scream


Goblins (3’3”, 42 lbs.):
ST -2, DX +2, SM -1, Infravision, Silence 1, Social Stigma (minority group)


Kobolds (2’3”, 40 lbs.) [-25 points]:
ST -4, DX +2, Per +1, HT -1, SM -2, Damage Resistance 1 (tough skin), Infravision, Engineer (mining, IQ-2) [1], Running (HT) [2], Traps (IQ) [2], Bad Sight (nearsighted, bright sunlight only) [-17], Cowardice (12), Social Stigma (minority group), Squeaky Voice

Squeaky Voice Quirk: -1 to Intimidation and appropriate reaction rolls against non-kobolds


Lizardfolk (6’6”, 125 lbs.):
ST +1, IQ -1, HT +1, SM +1, Breath-Holding 1, Claws (sharp claws), Damage Resistance 3 (flexible), Nictitating Membrane 1, Teeth (sharp teeth), Acrobatics (DX -1) [2], Jumping (DX +1) [2], Swimming (HT +2) [4], Social Stigma (minority group)


Ogres (9’6”, 625 lbs.):
ST +10, HP +3, DX -1, IQ -2, Per +1, HT +1, Basic Move +1, SM +2, Damage Reduction 3 (tough skin), Infravision, Bad Temper (15), Social Stigma (monster), Odious Racial Habit (eat other sentients) [-15], Dull (usually smash, ignore or flee) [-1]


Orcs (6’, 215 lbs.):
ST +5, HP +2, IQ -1, Infravision, Fearlessness +4, Bad Sight (nearsighted, bright sunlight only) [-17], Social Stigma (minority group), chauvinistic (women are breeders)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Gnomes taste like beef, especially if prepared properly. MMMMMMMM, finger licking good :).

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Got one for warforged?

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Interesting post!

I think someone will post that just after the template for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles "Dungeon Fantasy race"... >:-D

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

War-Forged would be difficult to do on 25 points.

Looking at Jurgen Hubert's Eberron conversion, his War-Forged build comes in at 83 points. The minimum traits to apply would be Machine meta-trait [25], Doesn't Sleep [20], plus Damage Resistance 3 (Can't Wear Armour, -40%) [9], and perhaps Longevity, Extended Lifespan or Rev. Pee Kitty's house-ruled Unaging [5]. This totals to 59 points (using Unaging).

Can you apply enough disadvantages to fit into 25 points, or remove any of the traits above and still keep their feel? One could apply Numb [-20] and Low Empathy [-20], although I don't know that that really fits the spirit or the official stats of War-Forged.

Edit: another poster (don't recall the name, sorry) suggested Ham-Fisted for this race, so that could be applied as well.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I've been thinking about how to balance the other races. What I'm thinking is that I'd have a hard limit of 50 points in disadvantages (plus 5 quirkes) _including_ the points from racial disadvantages and quirkes. Therefore one of my Elves:

Elf [+25 points]
DX +1 [20], PER +1 [5], Attractive Appearance [+4], Gifted Artist Talent/1 [5] OR Musical Ability Talent/1 [5], Magery 0 [5], Unaging [5]*, Racial skill bonus to Bow +1 [2], Night Vision/4 [4], Elven Code of Honor [-10], Sense of Duty - Nature [-15]

who already has 25 points in racial disadvantages would only be able to take 25 more points of disadvantages from their class template. This would mean that they wouldn't be able to buy as many of the optional traits from their class template, as they won't be able to afford them.

Since Orges have more than 50 points in racial disadvantages, they wouldn't be able to take any of their class disadvantages without buying off some racial disadvantages. You might also want to provide absolute limits to stats, so that if a human Barbarian has ST +7 (size -10% and an Ogre has +10 ST (size -10%), this does not necessarily mean that an Ogre Barbarian has STR +17 (size -20%). [136 points] Since STR 27 gives Thrust 3d-1 and Swing 5d+1 damage than an Ogre with an oversized Maul doing sw+6 cut would be doing 5d+7 swing (average of 24.5 points of crushing).

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Might as well take a stab at this along with everyone else:

Ogre (around 8 feet, 500-600 lbs). Big, strong, a little slow and clumsy. Aside from Bad Temper, not particularly anti-social.

Size Mod +1 [0], +8 ST [72*], -1 DX [-20], -2 IQ [-40], +1 HT [10], -1.0 Speed [-20], +4 HP [8]. +2 Move [10], +2 Per [10], +2 Will [10], +2 Fearlessness [4], Night Vision +9 [9], +2 DR (Tough Skin -40%) [6], Bad Temper 12- [-10], Social Stigma (Monster) [-15], Ugly [-8], Quirk: Always talks of self in third person ("Mongo mere pawn in game of life.") [-1]

Total for Attributes: 22
Total for Secondary Characteristics: 18
Total for Advantages: 19
Total for Disadvantages: -34
Total: 25 points

I avoided Odious Racial Habit (Eats Sentients) as I think Social Stigma (Monster) covers it.

Half Ogre

Ogre (around 7 feet, 250-300 lbs)

Size Mod +1 [0], +3 ST [27*], -1 IQ [-20], +1 HT [10], +2 HP [4], +1 Per [5], +1 Will [5], +1 Fearlessness [2], Night Vision +3 [3], +1 DR (Tough Skin -40%) [3], Bad Temper 15- [-5], Social Stigma (Kind of suspect) [-5], Unattractive [-4]

Total for Attributes: 17
Total for Secondary Characteristics: 14
Total for Advantages: 8
Total for Disadvantages: -14
Total: 25 points

- DW

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

How about one of these templates for a race like the Pixie-fairies from Hackmaster? Perhaps very difficult to do. What about Leprechauns? Ive always wondered why they arent a standard race in some games. Does it have anything to do with breakfast cereal I wonder?

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

The pixies and such are very "fantastic".

I once planned to run a AD&D campaign with these little creatures as PCs. I think it can be interesting.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Pixie-Fairy GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Template

Pixy-Fairy [+25]

ST - 5 [-50], DX +1 [20], Per +1 [5], Ground Move -4 [-20] SM -2 [0]
Subtotal [-45]

Attractive Appearance [4], Charisma/1 [5], Flight (winged -25%) [30] Invisibility (Can carry objects Medium +50%, Switchable +10%, Accessability - may only activate ability once per day but that activation lasts 24 hours or until deactivated -5%, Accessability - only when flying and as long as they don't attack or cast attack spells -30%, the light from light sources they carry remains visable -0%, Substantial Only -10%) [50], Perk - can gain Tattoo Magic in play [1], Rapid Healing [5], Taboo Trait - armor does not protect their wings [0]. Taboo Trait - Extra hit Points [0]. Racial Feature - can have their wings cut off [0].
Subtotal [95]

Speaks Pixie Fairy (native/none) [-3], Common (accented/none) [2]
Racially Learned Skills - Flight HT [2]-10, Survival/Forest Per-1 [1] -11
Subtotal [2]

Pixie Fairy Code of Honor [-5] OR Odious Racial Habit - Pixie Fairy [-5] (depending on how you read their behavior, I agree with Steevil on this one) Enemy (as powerful, 6- various pixie dust collectors and pixie hunters) [-2] Increased Consumption 1.5 (must eat 9 meals/day) [-15], Short Lifespan/3 [-3]* Quirk - Distractible [-1], Quirk - must return home for Pixie Meet every six years or will suffer Unluck until they attend the next Meet. [-1]
Subtotal [-27]

Optional Traits -
Wings Cut Off [-30]
Danger Sense (Reliable +8 +40%, only versus dangers from intelligent creatures -20%) [18]
Extra Life (Onset - requires one to four months to activate -40%, new form still has Extra Life, but instead looses 25 points from reduced skills and a new disadvantage -0% [15],
Magery 1 [5] and Racially Learned Spell Simple Illusion IQ [4] if IQ 11+.
various Tattoo Magic abilities [var].
Reduced FP [var]
Sterile [0].
Pixie-Fairys with Tatoos must increase the frequency of their Enemy to 9-, as many people with to acquire tattoo magic by ripping it from the pixie fairy, dead or alive [a difference of -3]

I have not included Pixie Fairys Telepathic Link to associates or their ability to give their Danger Sense to companions they are Telepathically linked to, it's just too expensive. I have not included all the languages Pixie Fairys speak. I have assumed illiteracy because Literacy is an acquired skill in Hackmaster. I have not included the 5th level Pixie Fairy abilities of casting 'Minor Sphere of Perturbation' and calling a woodland thrall (Ally). I did not give them +1 IQ and a taboo trait of lowered IQ even though in Hackmaster they can all cast a spell that requires IQ 11 in GURPS. I did not give them +1 IQ in GURPS even though they have +1 IQ and +1 WIS in Hackmaster. I have made their Extra Life and their Danger Sense both optional traits, which is inaccurate, but as this is not the 58 point template thread, was required. I have not included their high resistence to magic. I have simplified their dependency on a special diet to Increased Comsumption. I considered making their ability to gain Tattoo Magic a 0 point feature but decided it was, at least, a Perk. I have oversmiplified their loss of half their Honor for missing Pixie Meet to Unluck for missing it.

* I am deliberately reducing the cost of all aging related advantages and disadvantages for GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, on the assumption that most Dungeon Fantasy campaigns won't last long enough, in game time, for them to matter as much. If you disagree you could pick up another -27 points in disadvantages and use them to pay for some of the optional traits.

Pixie Fairys are copyright by Kenzer and Company. This is an unauthorized adaptation. If they tell me to take it down, I will.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I think it has a lot to do with 1) very small races being pretty feeble in normal physical combat and 2) fae races being very magically powerful, usually.

Faeries/pixies tend to give GMs headaches in dungeon crawls because they usually fly. Tiny (ie hard to hit, hard to spot, easy to find cover in combat or for Stealth), Flying, possibly hurling large fireballs or delivering Death touches...

Leprechauns mostly lack anything to hang a PC race on. If you take a mundane spin on them, you get hobbits. If you follow the mythology, you get a Very Wealthy race that is antisocial and invisible - not good PC material.

EDIT: Although I suppose having to endure bad irish accents and lucky charm jokes for an entire campaign might drive some GMs to murder.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

"They are after me lucky charms."
<laughter>
"What?" (indignantly)

Yeah, that could get old fast ;)

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Sorry GnomesofZurich for not responding sooner. I forgot I posted here. But here is my stab at a War-Forged. I figure they are living constructs, so they shouldn't get the unliving trait. Anyways tell me what you think.

HT+2 [20] HP+2[4] Per-1 [-5] will-1[-5]

Traits: Damage Resistance 2 (Can't wear armor -40%) [6]
*Note: War-forged can choose to spend points to raise this trait
Doesn't eat or drink [10]
Doesn't sleep [20]
Innate attack crushing (melee attack, close range -30%) [3]
(Would this use the brawling skill? Does anyone have an idea how to modify this further to represent their strong fist?)
Injury Tolerance (no vitals) [5]
unaging [5] (works for me)
Unhealing [-30] needs to be repaired if damaged. Skill armory, treat the skill of armory like first aid.

Total 33 points

Suggestions? Ideas?

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

oops not 25 points....err. But still what do you think?

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

It doesn't look bad, I might replace your Innate Attack with another level of Damage Resistance and the Striking Surface perk from Supers (don't quite recall the exact effects...my books are a few hundred kilometers away right now), or alternately with Blunt Claws.

Good call on the -1 Per, I might switch that to -2 Per, and no Will modifier. They aren't supposed to be any more weak-willed than humans, but they definitely have weaker senses.

Someone else had pointed out that they should really receive a ST adjustment more than a HT adjustment, given their average weight comes in around 300 lbs. Cube root of 300 * 2 gives a value of 13.

Another disadvantage that might be appropriate is Sense of Duty: they were created to serve one side or other in a war, so they are likely most comfortable in service to something.

So I would go with either:
War-Forged (Healthy!), 25 points
+2 HT [20], +2 HP [4], -2 Per [-10]
Damage Resistance 3 (Can't Wear Armour, -40%) [9]
Doesn't Eat or Drink [10]
Doesn't Sleep [20]
IT: No vitals [5]
Unaging* [5]
Perk: Striking Surface [1]
Temperature Tolerance 1 [1]

Unhealing [-30]
Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]
Edit: Added Temperature Tolerance 1

or

War-Forged (Strong!) 25 points
+3 ST [30], -2 Per [-10]
DR 3 (CWA, -40%) [9]
Doesn't Eat or Drink [10]
Doesn't Sleep [20]
IT: No vitals [5]
Unaging* [5]
Perk: Striking Surface [1]

Unhealing [-30]
Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]
Sense of Duty (Small Group) [-5]

I would prefer retaining the Machine Meta-trait, and one other trait that might be needed is Doesn't Breathe (which would add on another 20 points), but either of the templates above could reasonably simulate them.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Why make all racial templates cost the same? One of the strengths of a point/buying systen like gurps is that it does not unbalance the system to have unbalanced templates.

In my setting for example, elves are just cooler than most. Not Tolkien cool, but still hat bit more special than your standard 'oh another elf'. It will set you back 63 points to play one, but you will be cool. Dwarves in comparison are only half that cost. Of course humans will have a lot more points to invest in other things, evening things out.

In this thread for example, it makes little sense that your standard ogre or lizardman cost the same as a puny little goblin. Ogres in many settings, literally eat goblins for breakfast.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

The reason all of the points were built to the same level was to fit in with the templates from Dungeon Adventurers, allowing any "class" to buy any racial template using the alloted advantage points plus discretionary points from quirks. All of them have at least 20 points of advantages to be selected by the user plus 5 points from quirks, so this way any race/class combination could be allowed.

You certainly can have races of different point totals, but this thread isn't about any fantasy setting, it's about the setting presented in the Dungeon Adventures book.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

You still don't need to buff them all up to exactly 25 points. They can easly be less than that.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I like those two builds. I think I'm going to use them. Does the social stigma have any effect in game? I like the sense of duty (small group), that fits well with the warfoged flare.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Thanks!

I would assume social stigma has some effect in a dungeon adventures game, after all minority group is also listed in the Barbarian template. In this case the minority group would be "a bunch of constructs designed for war". What form this took would depend on the setting, but things to consider include:
-Something designed for war that is out of place in peace-time. Similar to how people can react negatively to soldiers who have returned from a lengthy war.
-Just objects/not real people. Little regard for the war-forged feelings, safety etc.

Is it possible to get points for belonging to two different minority groups? If a War-Forged as presented here used the Barbarian template, do you think they would have to buy off one of the social stigmas?

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I'm not sure if this build is accurate to the Eberron setting, but How about this for War-Forged? The additions of Mana Dependency and Unnatural are due to their nature as magical constructs, and Clueless reflects their lack of socialization. I don't recall War-Forged as having noses/sense of taste - why would they, if they don't eat? Also, they don't seem to have been developed with attractiveness in mind, and chunks of rock don't float or feel much pain.

Another variation would give them Injury Tolerance: Homogenous, at the expense of some ST and DR.

War-Forged [25 points]

ST+5 [50] HP+2 [4] Per -2 [-10]
Machine [25]
DR 5 (CWA, -40%) [15]
Doesn't Eat or Drink [10]
Doesn't Breathe [20]
High Pain Threshold [10]
Unaging* [5]
Striking Surface [1]
Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]
Clueless [-10]
Dependency(Mana, constant) [-25]
No Sense of Smell/Taste [-5]
Unattractive [-4]
Cannot Float [-1]
Unnatural [-50]

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Canonically, they do have a sense of smell and taste, and it's mentioned how curious this is considering that they have no need to eat.

Warforged Senses (taken from here.)

The warforged possess the same five senses that human beings do: sight, smell, hearing, touch, and even taste. They do not perceive the world in precisely the same way as humans do, and many of these senses are fairly dull in comparison to those of creatures of flesh and blood. But a warforged can smell smoke in the air and can gauge the extent of an injury by the pain that it feels. Many warforged value the magical component known as the tracker mask because it expands their sense of smell, allowing them to experience the world in a new way. But a warforged can still smell strong odors without the mask.

The warforged sense of taste is one of the mysteries of the race. It has little value to a soldier and creature that has no need of food. In fact, this is not something that was designed by the artificers of House Cannith. Warforged are not automatons, and not every aspect of the warforged is the result of human planning: They are creatures of magic that defy natural law. A warforged is a creature of stone and wood, yet it can feel love and hate. Is it any stranger that it should be able to smell and taste?
/End quoted text

This also suggests that High Pain Threshold isn't automatic to the War Forged. I feel ST 15 is too high of a racial average for the War Forged, and your current build lacks Doesn't Sleep [20], so removing 2 levels of ST would allow the inclusion of this trait. Clueless might apply to a newly forged member of the race, but both that and Unattractive are not necessarily a part of every Warforged. Anyway, just my take on it.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Quite right, Warforged have neither smell nor taste. This is lampshaded in the original game by the existance of a Component which can grant Discriminatory Smell to Warforged, being highly sought after by those who want to experience the world of scents.

Looks better then the version I came up with, which was 34 points, and had redundant elements due to miscalculations. Nicely done.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Well, ST 15 and DR 5 are both probably a little too high for canonical Warforged - I'm not too sure since I haven't played much Eberron and I don't have my books on me - but those stats make for a good 'golem' build. They probably do have High Pain Threshold - that advantage doesn't mean they don't feel pain, it just means they're relatively immune to its effects. In other words, they don't have Numb. As far as Unattractive goes, they're functional chunks of rock and wood, not designed for appearance, and as far as Clueless goes, older Warforged have probably bought it off. Doesn't sleep might be a little expensive too, given that Less Sleep is only 2pts/level, but having that advantage in a Dungeon Fantasy game where you're likely to be eaten in your sleep, it should probably remain 20 points.

More Canonical War-Forged [25 points]

ST+3 [30] HP+1 [2] Per -2 [-10]
Machine [25]
DR 4 (CWA, -40%) [12]
Doesn't Eat or Drink [10]
Doesn't Breathe [20]
Doesn't Sleep [20]
High Pain Threshold [10]
Unaging* [5]
Striking Surface [1]
Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]
Clueless [-10]
Dependency(Mana, constant) [-25]
Unattractive [-4]
Cannot Float [-1]
Unnatural [-50]

Edit: might want to change DR 4(CWA) to DR2 and add an HP back so armor they bolt on is treated as equipment, not bought with CP...

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I'm sorry to say that I totally disagree with this thread. I would make Human, Dwarf, and Elf worth zero points. Dwarves and Elves aren't better than humans, just different, with different abilities and disadvantages. Remember, we are all unique snowflakes.

I would make Hobbits and Gnomes worth negative points, perhaps five or ten in order to get someone to play one. They're going to want extra points to pump up one of the profession templates. I've been playing roleplaying games constantly since 1982 and I've never seen anyone play either of these. The closest were a couple of people who played Kender when Dragonlance was the "big thing"

I can't really thing of any other races I'd allow in a bog standard dungeon crawl game. Maybe some kind of dragonkin but that would require points which I'd require the player to take from their profession template. 250 points is quite enough starting points, thank you very much.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

What negatives do you add to these races to negate their 'standard' Yoadvantages? You want them to cost 0 pts? That is what you must do.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Dwarves would get reduced move 1 [-5], nearsighted [-2], miserliness[-10], and staid [-5].

Elves would get Reduced hit points 2 [-4]; ORH: Annoyingly superior [-10], -2 reaction from everyone, all the time, except for other elves; Dependency [-10](Elvish food - common).

That would give you -22 to work with for Dwarves and -24 to work with for Elves.

Maybe tomorrow I'll do a full right up, but it 3:48 am and I need to go to bed.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

I like the mana dependency, though it is not stated in the ebberon game. Personally, I would like to see that added. Additonally I like Clueless. As for the machine template, I'm not too sure about that because war-forged are suppose to be alive. I think Injury Tolerance (no vitals) better reflects them. Also Resistant, Common, because they are immune to poisons, and disease but can suffer ability damage and in gurps translation that would mean some afflictions.

This would be my take. I don't think they should be much stronger either. I think the extra hit points, damage reduction, and striking surface does a significant job reflecting their strength as 300 pound humaniods.

ST+2 [20] HP+2 [4] Per -2 [-10]
Injury Tolerance (no vitals) [5]
Resistant (common B81) [15]
DR 2 (CWA, -40%) [6]
Doesn't Eat or Drink [10]
Doesn't Breathe [20]
Doesn't Sleep [20]
High Pain Threshold [10]
Unaging* [5]
Striking Surface [1]
Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]
Clueless [-10]
Dependency(Mana, constant) [-25]
Unhealing [-30]
Sense of Duty (small group) [-5]
Cannot Float [-1]

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Tell that to an OD&D elf. In most fantasy genres, I think it is generally accepted that your average human would have his butt kicked by your average elf or dwarf. This is why I like GURPS - because it allows for this convention without unbalancing human PCs. OD&D allowed for this convention as well, hell so did AD&D to a certain extent (compensated for early advantages with level caps) although the implementations weren't too well made.

In short, I think there is precedent for making them superior, both in fantasy in general as well as the dungeon crawl genre. In fact, 3.x is probably one of the exceptions to this genre convention.

That sounds more reasonable to me, as they are very much of the 'unlikely hero' archetype.

I might consider half-orc, but with the caveat that this should be considered an unusal an exceptional option.

Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Races - 25 point templates
 

Pachekki GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Template

Pachekii [+25 points]

ST -2 [-20], DX +2 [40], IQ-1 [-20], HT +1 [10] HP +1 [2], Ground Move -1 [-5], Amphibious [10], Breath Holding/1 [2], Fearlessness/1 [2], Hermaphromorph (uncontollable -10%, takes extra time 7 -70% [1], Nicitating Membrane/1 [1], Peripheral Vision [15], Rapid Healing [5], Regrowth (Minor -50%) [20], Talent/Artificer/1 [10], Talent/Green Thumb/1 [5], Split Personality [-15] with Impulsiveness 12- [-10] (when female) OR Laziness 12- [-10] (when male), Appearance: Ugly [-8], Dependency (complete immersion in water, very common, weekly) [-10], Hard of Hearing [-10].

This is an adaptation of the science fiction race from GURPS Aliens from 3rd ed. I included them as an NPC race in my 3rd ed Fantasy setting assuming that long ago a starship had crashed on that world. This adaptation makes no such assumption, treating them as just weird swamp dwellers. Since GURPS Reptilemen are desert dwellers this leaves swamp terrain open for another race.