GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Now that GURPS Spaceships is out, has anyone done any conversion of classic THS ships to that system?

I'm thinking of beginning on it myself, but was hoping someone else had done a couple of them.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

It was something I was planning on doing after I finish converting Traveller ships in a few weeks time.

Have you seen the JavaScript utility that someone on one of the other Gurps boards has put up: http://101010.org/gurps/ss_cost_calc.html

I tried to do a TL9 Meizi today to get a feel for it and the basic design you can do, but you can't get close to the delta-V without choosing the TL10 drive and fuel performance. How can you get close to 165 mps total delta-V (82.5 mps with turnover) with 0.06G sAccel at TL9? I chose TL10 drive and tanks as the best fit though this lowers overall delta-V.

You also have to make decisions about what to do with the small components that are way below the size of one module on an SM 10 craft - like the hangar and the laser towers.

Meizi outline design:

Front
1 Armor (Metallic Laminate)
2-6 Habitat (250 cabin equivalent plus cargo)
0 Control Room

Central
1-6 Fuel Tank

Rear
1 TL10 Fusion Pulse Drive
2-0 Fuel Tank

Option: Spin Gravity

dST/HP Hnd/SR HT Move LWt. Load SM Occ dDR M$ Cost
150 -2/5 13 0.05G/120mps 10,000 250 10 500ASV 20/0 217

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

THS is TL10, but some ships may use TL9 drives.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Oh, I thought it was late TL9 with TL10 Biotech (p140). Is this a G:Spaceships specific suggestion?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

That's Third Edition, ferrpeedzaik. The 4e Tech Levels are redefined almost explicitly to make TS technology fit better. (It's TL10 with some early/experimental TL11 stuff, in fact.)

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

I did a few conversions early during the playtest. Tings match reasonably well, but lots of things fall below the resolution of the Spaceships rules.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

You mean Classic TS ;-)

Grumble. I have to read Changing Times as well as buy it? Grumble.

Hmm, I must have read that bit last xmas. It obviously didn't sink in - mind you it was the season to make merry :-)

What were the suggestions for those things? Like laser towers and hangars?

I can think of a few options
- Just ignore them?
- Include them in the accommodation section?
- Install a tertiary battery with only 2 weapons and lots of cargo?
- Install a hangar and lots of cargo?
- use split modules?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

I've gotten stuck on exactly which of the fusion reaction drives best represent the He3 powered engines.

My guess was "Fusion Rockets" for the space-only designs.

But have been at a loss for what to use to get out of a gravity well.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Here's the conversion for the laser launch system

Originally posted by Boobis, and figures checked by me. Aside from that, the non-laser launch vehicles for earth are going to be multi-stage or metallic hydrogen chemical rockets, as I understand it.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Ships that use "Fusion Torch" in THS are best repped by TL9 fusion rockets, sometimes with high-thrust. In Fact, the TL9 fusion rocket with/without high thrust is an almost exact match.

Many ships in THS use "Fusion Pulse" and these are probably best repped by the TL10 fusion pulse drives.

Fairly slow ion drive, magsail (plasma sail) and fusion engine vessels, if they operate in low orbit at all (as opposed to from L5 or GEO ports) will often rely on tugs with NTR rockets (fission drive).

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Awesome, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Anyone know a good method for doing spin pods in G:Spaceships?

This is my latest attempt at a Meizi role equivalent - an economic passenger spin liner with an Earth-Mars travel time of a few weeks - not an exact duplicate of the Meizi.

Front
1 Armor (Advanced Laminate)
2-4 Habitat
5-6 Cargo

Central
1 Armor (Advanced Laminate)
2-4 Habitat
5-6 Fuel Tank (water)
C Control Room

Rear
1 Armor (Advanced Laminate)
2 Hangar Bay (SM6 or smaller craft)
3 Fusion Rocket (water)
4-C Fuel Tank (water)

Habitat: 180 cabins, 60 luxury cabins, 2 cells, 4 briefing rooms, 8 establishments, 4 offices, 2 sickbays, 32 open space.

The habitat modules are spread around the outside of the hull in the front and central hull sections where spin gravity effects are strongest.

TL10, Spin Gravity (0.2G), dST/HP 150, Hnd/SR -2/5, HT 13, Move 0.015G (144 mps), Lwt. 10,000, Load 1160, Fuel 3000 tons, SM 10, Occ 480 ASV, dDr 30, M$ 260, Length 100 yards, Diameter 40 yards

Cruising Velocity 0.067 AU/day, Burn Endurance 435 hours (18 days)
Trip Time Earth-Mars (median distance 1.8 AU) = 36 days

Economics: Per standard passenger (2 per cabin) $5000/AU, Luxury Passenger $10000/AU, Per ton cargo $750/AU

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

A very cheap Mars or Mercury orbiter using water as reaction mass making it very economical.

Front
1 Armor (Advanced Laminate)
2-3 Passenger Seating (12 seats)
4 Cargo (5 tons)
5-6 Fuel Tank (water)
C Control Room

Central
1 Armor (Advanced Laminate)
2-C Fuel Tank (water)

Rear
1 Armor (Advanced Laminate)
2-5 Fuel Tank (water)
6 Nuclear Thermal Rocket (water 1.5G)
0 Not Used

TL 10, dST/HP 30, Hnd/SR 0/4, HT 12, Move 1.5G (2.52 mps), LWt. 100, Load 5, SM 6, Occ 12 SV, dDR 7, M$ 1.72

Time to Mars orbit 240 seconds, 0.3 mps fuel reserve for orbital manouvers. Must refuel in orbit.

Economics: $100 per passenger trip to/from orbit (one way)

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

I've tried my hand at a modified Mudlark-design (for a PbP game). Came out thus:

The Ann McCaffrey
Modified Mudlark-Class USV (Utility Space Vehicle)

Statistics (GURPS Spaceships format):
SM: +7 (Cyllindrical hull, 105' (35 yds) long, 25' (8 yds) diam.)

Components:
Front
[1] Armor: Steel (cDR 3)
[2] Control Room (3 workstations)
[3-5] Habitat (6 people)
[6] Robot Arm
[core] Habitat (1-person atuomated medical bay)

Center
[1] Armor: Steel (cDR 3)
[2-4] Cargo Hold (45 tons)
[5] Habitat (2 people)
[6] Array: Enhanced (Improved Sensor systems)

Rear
[1] Armor: Steel (cDR 3)
[2] Hangar Bay (15 tons)
[3-5] Fuel Tank (45 tons)
[6] Engine Room (1 workstation)
[core] Reaction Engine: Fusion Torch

Habitat Options
Automeds 1

Cost
$12,660,000

Stats:
Crew/Passenger accomodation: 8
Cargo: 45 tons
d-V: 45 mps
Accel: 0.5G
Onboard Comp: C9 Macroframe
Sensor Rating: 8
Refuelling: $900

Design Notes:
The Ann McCaffrey is a modified Mudlark-class USV. It is an unstreamlined cyllindrical hull. It has an improved engine for superior travel times in relation to it's class-mates. It also features improved sensor capabilities. The robotic arm can increase cargo capabilities by functioning as an external cradle. The central computer is a complexity 9 Macroframe, housing a LAI-9 operative system named Helva.

Passenger occupancy has been slightly increased. One cargo space has been converted into a small Hangar Bay, primarily to hold cybershells.

The Ann McCaffrey does not have adequate radiation shielding. Precautions (vacc suits, nanosymbionts, inhabiting a secured cybershell et. al.) must be taken. The environment is Zero-G, and space is borderline cramped. There is a u-boat feel to staying on the ship.

The ship does not have the capability to enter atmospheres. Typically, local transports are utillized for on-/off-loading on atmospheric worlds.

The onboard computer is very roomy, storagewise (1 exabyte I believe the capacity term is). It can house (ie. actively run) quite a few infomorphs of C7 (your typical Ghost) and below (and it can store almost a thousand). Infomorphs can be transferred wirelessly from ship to surface, if needed.

The Ann McCaffrey was obtained through contacts in Duncanite space, purchased and modified with funds acquired from the salvage of the Shoemaker (see backstory section for details).

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

That's a quarter of the ship cost.

That is a superscience drive. Is this for a non-TS game? A fusion rocket would be more suitable for TS.

I am confused over the stats. You give dV and accel as per a hydrogen torch but fuel cost as water.

TL10 Hydrogen or TL11 Water figure. About 60% of the Mudlark's total dV of 75 mps.

For a hydrogen torch. 1.5G for a water torch. Significantly more than the Mudlark.

Water.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

"The good news is, there's a spaceship named after you. The bad news is, they got your name wrong."

No can do. Fusion Torch requires a [rear] location, and [rear] explicitly excludes [core].

I'm really thinking that we really need a "cheap, clunky grabber arm, no use for meca wannabes" option.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Osiris Class SDV-9W

The design of the Osiris class SDV is influenced by firepower, combat performance and of course operational efficiency. With the price of Nuclear Pellets at $50K per ton, burning pellets for interplanetary travel is a non-starter, otherwise it would cost M$ 150 per trip in fuel alone. Instead a fusion rocket (water) drive is used for interplanetary trips and a high-thrust Nuclear Pulse drive is used in combat. The use of water for reaction mass also makes out-system and emergency refueling much simpler.

It was politically important to outperform civilian liners on interplanetary journeys so it was fitted with a double size fusion rocket drive.

Combat performance:

The high thrust fusion pulse drive gives it 0.1G of combat performance for over 2 hours.
Forward armor is double thickness to provide additional combat protection.
The forward fixed mount weapon provides a deadly 3GJ particle beam.
The secondary weapons comprise:
4x 300MJ UV lasers,
2x 30MJ Improved RF point defence lasers,
2x Coil gun with XLMP and Kinetic ammo
2x RF Coil gun for engaging smaller targets

Design:
Front
1-2 Armor (Nanocomposite) dDR 100
3 Battery (Major) – Fixed Mount Particle Beam
4 Habitat* (50% allocated to 150 tons steerage cargo)
5-6 Fuel Tank (water)
C Control Room

Central
1 Armor (Nanocomposite) dDR50
2-5 Fuel Tank (water)
6 Battery (Secondary)
C Fusion Reactor (2 Power)

Rear
1 Armor (Nanocomposite) dDR 50
2 External Clamp for 4x 125 ton Naiad class AKVs
3-4 Fusion Rocket (water, 0.03G. 144mps)
5 HT Fusion Pulse Drive (0.1G. 5mps)
6 Fuel Tank (Nuclear pellets, 2.26 hours)

*Habitat: 3 luxury cabin, 8 cabin, 8 bunkrooms, 2 briefing rooms, 2 minifacs, 2 offices, 2 sickbays, 30 unused (steerage cargo).

Options: Chameleon.

TL10, dST/HP 150, Hnd/SR -2/5, HT 13, Move 0.03G (water, 144 mps) 0.1G (NP, 5mps), LWt 10,000, Load 150, SM 10, Occ 54 ASV, dDR 100 F/50SB, Cost M$ 780

Trip Time: Earth-Mars 31.5 days.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

He. We know. It's deliberate on the part of the players who named her. Don't know exactly why.

Oppsie - easily fixed, though, by swapping with one of the fuel modules.

I've used the otherwise very exellent online construction system at 101010.org, and that seemed to catch such errors - not that one though.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Yeah, but it's a cool toy, they had the funds, and the function of the ship means that they'll probably need it.

ISTR someone commenting somewhere (mr. Pulver, even?) that if there is one spot where a little superscience creeps into the setting it's right here. Fusion torches has been commented on as being represnetative of some designs.

He, me too. Where on earth did I get water from???

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Mr Pulver explicitly refers to fusion rockets in post 10 on this very thread: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=10

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Hmm yeah, maybe that was it ... in which case I'm remembering wrong AGAIN (that does happen a bit much these days, mayhap I should test the stress levels ;-)

Back to the drawing board :-)

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Areon News - Islandia Express Launched

Today sees the launch of the “Islandia Express” passenger service using the first production model of Vosper-Babbage’s “Void Skimmer” passenger shuttle. Capable of making the Earth-Islandia run in 9 hours it is hailed as a major speed breakthrough that makes Earth-L4 travel as fast as intercontinental travel on Earth. Twice as fast as existing Earth-Lunar shuttles the service caters for the premium end of the burgeoning mass transit market between Earth orbit, Lunar orbit and L4.

Our reporter joined the chairman of both Vosper Babbage and Islandia Space Lines on its maiden voyage from Islandia in L4 to Von Braun station in low-Earth-orbit.

Islandia Space Lines: “With the Olympus project well underway the expected growth in demand for rapid transit between Earth, Lunar and L4 is huge. Providing our customers with what they want before anyone else reinforces our position as the premier passenger carrier in Trans-Lunar space. We also take the comfort and safety of our passengers very seriously indeed as you can see from the generously appointed interior.”

Vosper Babbage: “The Void Skimmer was a concept craft we had on the drawing board for the military market. When we were approached by ISL about an express passenger shuttle the synergy was obvious. Our close location to Islandia meant that we could closely collaborate in person at all stages of development leading to a much better final product. We are already working together to design the second generation of rapid transit shuttles.”

The voyage itself is something of an eye-opener. On existing shuttles there is the gentle pull of micro-gravity. On the Islandia Express you are pinned to your seat! Acceleration is close to Lunar standard gravity during the trip and it goes on for the entire journey which takes some getting used to.

Time is money, and this is reflected in the ticket prices. A first class seat costs $1000 and a standard seat costs $500, many times as much as existing shuttles. Industry watchers say prices will drop sharply once competitors enter the market.

Detractors point to the high running costs & the infrastructure required compared to existing shuttles. One shuttle operator commented that “This is a charter for the big carriers to edge out the smaller independent carriers.”

Design

From the drive bell dominating the rear of the craft and with every spare inch of hull covered in radiator panels it is obvious to look at that this craft means business. The hull material also says speed as it is made of Nanocomposite which is more commonly seen on military vessels. Other than that the dimensions are similar in dimensions to standard passenger shuttles. A standard cylindrical design, approximately 45 feet long by 15 feet in diameter.

Inside the craft says luxury, with a large first class section and a high standard of fittings throughout. With twin airlocks and generous backup power the craft significantly exceeds the latest safety standards.

Front
1 Armor (Nanocomposite) dDR 7
2-6 Passenger Seating (10 seats)
C Control Room

Central
1 Armor (Nanocomposite) dDR 7
2-4 Cargo (4.5 tons)
5-C Fuel Tank

Rear
1 Armor (Nanocomposite) dDR 7
2-6 Fusion Rocket (High Thrust Water) 0.15G

TL 10, dST/HP 20, Hnd/SR 0/4, HT 12, Move 0.15G (30 mps), LWt.30, Load 4.5, SM 5, Occ 16 SV, dDR 7, M$ 2.1

Earth-Lunar/L4/L5 Travel Time: 9 hours

Economics: Assumes 2 trips per day, 700 trips per year. Breakeven with 90% passenger load approximately $80 per ton of cargo, $60 per standard passenger and double that for first class passengers. Suggested ticket price $300 per standard passenger and $600 per first class passenger.

* first class seating is simply half the number of seats in the same space as two normal seats.

(Those with long memories may recall the color text from the old TS version I did in 2004 - and my website)

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Branson Class Conventional Orbital Lighter (Lifter and Spaceplane)

Branson class space planes are cheap reusable two part orbital lighters that can take off and land at a normal landing strip. It can easily make the return journey to and from low-Earth-orbit once for every four orbits of the LEO space station or every 360 minutes.

The lifter craft and the orbiter craft are both capable of independent operation and flight. The orbiter rides underneath the lifter until separation above the atmosphere. Both use standard chemical rocket fuel. The lifter also has a large jet engine.

Using Jet engines the lifter takes off and clears local population centers before going supersonic and accelerating to maximum air speed in an easterly direction. It then ignites its rocket drive and boosts towards orbit until it runs out of fuel. At this point the orbiter detaches, engages its rockets and completes the climb into orbit. The lifter drops back into atmosphere and flies back to its base using its jet engines where it refuels and picks up the second orbiter.

Having docked with the orbiting space station and exchanged passengers the orbiter makes a re-entry burn to enter atmosphere and then makes a slow glide descent back to Earth. It lands on its airstrip a couple of hours after it took off.

The Lifter cycles every 180 minutes and each orbiter every 360 minutes.

To take advantage of the Earth's spin they typically take off from airports close to the equator.

Branson Lifter "Big Richard":
Front
1-6 Upper Stage (Orbiter)

Central
1 Armor (Light Alloy)
2-6 Fuel Tank (HO)
C Control Room

Rear
1 Armor (Light Alloy)
2 Fuel Tank (HO)
3 Chemical Rocket (3G, 1.08 mps)
4-5 Jet Engine (2G, 0.97 mps)
6-C Fuel Tank (Jet fuel, 1 hour)

dST/dHP 50, Hnd/SR 3/6, HT 12, Move Flight 2G/3500 mph/0.97 mps, Move Boost 3G/1.08 mps, LWt 300, Load 2.5, SM +7, Occ 3 SV, dDR 3, Cost M$ 9.6., TL7, Streamlined, Winged, Length 40 yards

Total DeltaV 2.05 mps

Jet Engine 3500mph = 0.97 mps
6 Chemical Fuel Tanks 6*0.15*1.2 (6 tank adjustment) = 1.08 mps

Branson Orbiters "Little One" and "Little Two":
Front
1 Armor (Light Alloy)
2-5 Passenger Seating (24 seats)
6 Fuel tank (HO)
C Control Room

Central
1-C Fuel Tank (HO)

Rear
1 Chemical Rocket (HO, 3G, 3.12 mps)
2-6 Fuel Tank (HO)

dST/dHP 30, Hnd/SR 4/5, HT 12, Move Boost 3G/3.12 mps, LWt 100, Load 2.6, SM +6, Occ 26 SV, dDR 2, Cost M$ 1.46, TL7, Streamlined, Winged, Length 30 yards

DeltaV 3.12 mps - 13 Water Fuel Tanks 13*0.15*1.6 (13 tank adjustment)

Combined Effective Delta-V of Lifter and Orbiter = 2.05 + 3.12 = 5.17 mps (only 4.6 mps required to attain orbit)

Advance Return Ticket price = $16000

Designers comment: these craft are all "low tech" TL7 designs, they just bring together technology that is already available.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

If you are going to use GURPS Spaceships for Transhuman Space, you need to realize that the fuel costs in GURPS Spaceships are WAY too high for the Transhuman Space universe. If you look at the core book, they have fuel cost per space, and then they have the tonnage for that space, so it's fairly easy to figure out fuel cost per ton. Here is the cost for fuel per ton as it should be in the Transhuman Space universe.

Water $20
Coolant $80
Hydrogen-Oxygen $85
Argon $170
Hydrogen $350
Nuclear Pellets $500
Jet Fuel $1,000

Given that in Transhuman Space nuclear pellets are $500 and the price listed in GURPS Spaceships is $50,000, I have to ask. What universe are the prices in GURPS Spaceships intended for? Is this is cost of fuel assuming none of the fuels are being mass produced?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

However, the fact that a ton of nuclear pellets are cheaper than a ton of jet fuel should also trip your warning sensors about the validity of the THS numbers as well.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Not really. Keep in mind, in the world of Transhuman Space, most of the oil has been mined and used up, so I would kind of expect it to be extremely expensive. The only places to get petroleum based products are the few oil wells still running, where as nuclear pellets are made from chemicals found all over the solar system. I would expect them to be cheaper per ton, as the setting seems to indicate that nuclear pellets are significantly more plentiful than jet fuel.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

There's also the matter of supply and demand. In the world of Transhuman Space, nuclear pellets are the fuel of choice for virtually all interplanetary spacecraft. Jet fuel, on the other hand, is used by the few transatmospheric vehicles to have not switched over to laser lifters. If I remember Fifth Wave correctly, even most airplanes use ducted fans or some other kind of propeller as the people of Earth seem to avoid polluting as much as possible. That means that there really isn't much of a demand for jet fuel, leading it to not be manufactured in very high numbers, making it more rare, making it more expensive.

Come to think of it, given the environmentalist attitude that most of Earth's government's have taken, I wouldn't be surprised if a big chunk of that fuel cost was taxes meant to discourage use of jet fuel. You can even see that kind of stuff today. The tax rate in the UK on petrol is currently about 188%. Since the governments of Earth in Transhuman Space are very environmentalist, I would assume that similar tax rates would exist, if not become stricter. The prices of petroleum products usually have more to do with political and economic concerns than the actual cost involved in making them.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Your sarcasm aside, you're over simplifying the theory of supply and demand. It's not low demand that leads to low prices, it's low demand in relation to supply. Jet fuel needs to be manufactured, meaning that the supply is artificial. I suppose I wasn't clear enough, but I was saying that the low demand plus the fact that society at large frowns on hydrocarbon fuels plus large taxes on hydrocarbon fuels probably all conspire to make the supply even lower than the already low demand, as there simply isn't much profit in manufacturing jet fuel.

And by the way, was the sarcasm really necessary? Honestly, it feels like I can never have a normal, civil, adult conversation on this message board. What was the purpose of that? Why is it that talking game always seems to make people regress to the age of ten?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Yeah, this is my bad. I actually thought that [front] and [rear] just ment they needed to be in those sections, I completely missed the bit on page 9 saying that they can't be core.

I'll try to update the calculator soon for completeness.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

The 4th edition universe?

The cost of NP in 3rd edition (see Vx1) varied with TL (25k/ton at TL8, 0.5K/ton at TL10) whereas that has gone away in G:Spaceships and presumably 4th edition.

For simplicity I would just say they are third edition figures in TS and fourth edition in Spaceships.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

wabishtar, I have noticed you seem to become embroiled in snarkiness with some regularity. As for why, I'm not really sure, although effectively calling people ten year olds after they are snarky to you certainly doesn't help defuse the situation.

In this particular situation, I know Agemegos has his degree in economics, and can sometimes be easily annoyed by people, in his opinion, misusing economics to justify what he feels is faulty reasoning.

As to the main thrust of your argument, I agree that nuclear pellets will likely be much more common in TS, and jet fuel much more rare. I still see no reasonable way that jet fuel will cost double the price of those nuclear fuel pellets, even considering taxes, restricted supply, and public repugnance towards polluting. The process to manufacture the jet fuel is far too simple and requires very common elements, while nuclear fuel pellets use some relatively rare materials. My suspension of disbelief can't take the price differential, unless an entire moon composed out of heavy elements was discovered.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

I found something else that might shed some light on this. According to Deep Beyond's entry on nuclear pellet factory, it requires 5,000 tons of rock and 5 POUNDS of H-3 to manufacture 84 tons of nuclear pellet. That's a 1 to 2,000,000 ratio. If one ton of nuclear pellets is 0.001 pounds of H-3 and the rest is just slag and casing used to produce a shock wave, then when combined with political and economic concerns, these prices make perfect sense to me. In fact, I'm not a physicist, but I even start to question the notion that a ton of nuclear pellets has more energy than a ton of jet fuel. H-3 no doubt has more energy, but does 0.001 pounds of H-3 have more energy than 2,000 pounds of jet fuel?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Energy Density of aviation fuel is 43-48MJ/kg(Call it 48.) Hence, burning 1 ton of aviation fuel gets you:

48 MJ/kg * 1kg/2.2 lbs * 2000 lbs/1ton = 43,636 MJ/ton

pg 190 of TS 3E states that refueling a new fusion reactor requires .00059 ton He3 per MW per year, hence:

1 MW/Yr = 1 MJ/sec * Yr/1 * 365.25 Days/Yr * 24 Hours/Day * 3600 sec/hour = 31,536,000 MJ

Thus:

.00059 tonHe3/31,536,000 MJ or 31,536,000/.00059 MJ/tonHe3 * 1/2000 tonHe3/lbsHe3 = 26725424 MJ/lbsHe3.

However, you said 5 lbs of He-3 per 84 tons of nuclear pellets. There are 4910 tons of waste products, so its not five pounds per 5000 tons, its five pounds per tons pellet produced(or close enough, 90 tons instead of 84, if you want to include the missing 6 tons). Also, we know the robofac draws power, so it's not using the He-3 for anything besides production.

5/84 lbsHE3/tonPellet = 0.0595 lbsHE3/tonPellet

Finally:

26725424 MJ/lbsHE3 *.0595 lbsHE3/tonPellet = 1,590,799 MJ/tonPellet

So it's 1.6 million MJ for a ton of nuclear pellets, versus 40 thousand MJ for a ton of jet fuel, unless you assume they're throwing away 98% of their He-3 during the manufacturing process, and since it costs a million dollars per ton, I'm guessing they're not doing that.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

And that is assuming a 100% conversion rate, which is unlikely. So probably significantly more than that. Double?

Note as another data point that Vx1 says NP drives produce "small nuclear explosions (equivalent to about a ton of TNT)" and that pellets weigh "a few ounces each".

Oh, and the price of the pellet factory in Deep Beyond was commented on during playtest to try and make the capital costs bear some resemblance to the production rate and the canonical cost of NP.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

I don't think that this assumes a 100% conversion rate, unless you're talking about some amount of He3 that remains unfused in a D-He3 fusion reaction. As I understand it, the advantage of a D-He3 reaction is that there are no high energy particles left over to irradiate anything. This becomes a moot point if you have He3 left over, I believe. The amount of He3 required is for a fusion reactor, so this is the effective energy density, since there's no real way(that I know of) aside from fusion to generate usable (read non-explosive) power using He3.

Unless you were talking about something else. 100% conversion rate where?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Simpler calculation: hydrocarbons tend to 4e7 J/kg. Fission's 1e14 (actually 0.8e14), doable fusion's around 3e14, 4P->He4 fusion is 7e14, antimatter is 1e17 (or 9e16).

So, the fusion fuel has about 1e7 (10 million) times more energy per mass as the jet fuel. The numbers for comparison were 0.001 pounds (gah) of fusion and 2000 pounds of jet fuel, a difference of only 2 million. Fusion pellet has more energy.

Actually the jet fuel number is cheating: it's assuming free oxygen. If you have to bring your own oxidiser, e.g. we're talking *rocket* fuel, then the energy/mass drops by a factor of 4 or 5. CH2 -> CO2 + H2O, so you need 3 O per CH2, mass ratio of that is 48/14, so you end up with 4.4 time as much mass. Hydrogen looks hot at about 1e8 J/kg, but when you include the oxygen the energy density drops to about 1e7 J/kg.

Not sure if those fuel pellets include the D you need for fusion, but that's just a factor of 2.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

The reactor wont be 100% efficient at turning the heat from fusion into electricity.

But there again a jet engine wont be 100% efficient either, so it probably balances out.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Well, yes, but I assumed the MW listing of the reactors is in power output, not heat produced, and thats what the calculations are derived from. As for the energy density of the jet fuel, you're probably right though.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Does this mean that the delta-v provided by each fuel tank is at the TL9 level rather than the TL10 level?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

You use a separate interface craft (scramjet shuttle) or the beanstalk. Spaceships do NOT land. They stay parked in orbit, or docked with an orbital station or other base.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Well, after reading this still a lot is left unanswered. It seems TS uses TL9-11 stuff from spaceships. Diamondoid armor for example is TL11 in 4e, but is explicitly in the core TS book.

Is there any sort of standard or guide to using Spaceships to build TS ships? I like the system but so much detail is lost... so I'm hoping for a compromise.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

As far as I know the only hint we have for now is, from this thread, that drive performance is TL9 for fusion rockets, and fusion pulse is maybe TL10.

We may have to wait for the Spaceships for Transhuman Space book for the full details. Was that book 8?

I am guessing that while TS is mature TL10 that materials tech (nano based?) is early TL11 and engine tech is late TL9 (engineering based?).

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Spacecraft Tech Assumptions
See Transhuman Space: Changing Times for detailed coverage.
- TL9 for older spacecraft (old modules, built before 2080 or so)
- TL10 for newer spacecraft
- All drives use TL9 performance. Some particularly old designs may use TL8 performance (Horus I from Spacecraft of the Solar System, for example.
- As TL9 and TL10 designs exist together you may wish to give a cost break to old designs (maybe treat as a used ship, see Spaceships 2, pp. 27-28).

Conversion Notes
Some quick eyeballed notes. See Transhuman Space, pp. 173-190 for detailed module descriptions.

Major Rules of Thumb
- ALL THS designs use the Exposed Radiators design switch (Spaceships, p. 31).
- Converted designs are often starved for space (module slots). This means most craft will use both core slots (also, see Storm Shelters, below), lack Engine Rooms, and take advantage of steerage and scaled weapon battery cargo.
- The nature of THS space warfare means Defensive ECM and Stealth is rarely employed.
- You will probably not be able to exactly match DR, delta-V, and cargo capacity. The important thing is that the design feels right in comparison with the others.

Picking a SM
1. Note the LMass (Loaded Mass) of the THS design and pick a hull size that roughly corresponds to that. You can adjust this up or down one SM as the situation requires. For example, the Meizi, with LMass 11,213 (p. TS191), is SM+10 (10,000 tons). Note that the actual measurements of the ship do not necessarily need to differ from what THS says. Also see Changing Times, p. 67 for a discussion of Size Modifiers.
2. Note that in Spaceships, most THS craft are not streamlined. As a general rule, only apply streamlining (Spaceships, p. 9) to Streamlined Deltas (p. TS173)
3. Some Combination Hull designs (p. TS175) may be easier to replicate using Upper Stage (Spaceships, p. 26).

Armor
Armor, Ice and Stone: Use these for Asteroid Hulls, p. TS175.
Control Rooms: Note that THS Basic Bridges have 4 control stations; THS Command Bridges have 8. In addition, many designs are completely automated. Take advantage of the cost breaks for removing control stations (Spaceships, p. 14).
Sensors: In general, most designs will use the control room bundled sensors. Use special Arrays (Spaceships, p. 15) only in unusual cases.

Drives
Note that Spaceships uses the realistic delta-V calculations (p. TS189).

<Edit> THS designs list their delta-V with turnover. Double that to get full one-way delta-V as Spaceships lists.

Conversion Note: It can sometimes be useful to determine the mass fraction of a THS design used for drives. Multiply #modules * 4 to get mass of THS drive. Each of the five Spaceships engine (rear) slot available is about Loaded Mass /20 tons.

Weapons
Do not be too concerned about matching exact beam outputs. You may wish to use the RF and VRF options to bring things more into THS ranges.

Lasers: Use lasers with the ultraviolet option. Most are turreted.
Coilguns: Use electromagnetic guns.
Particle Accelerators: Use lasers with the particle beam option. Note that most are best represented by Major Batteries, not Spinal Mounts.

Crew and Passengers
Most crew modules translate over directly. Exceptions are noted below:

Passenger Seats: THS modules hold 16 seats.
Storm Shelters: To replicate these, place the Control Rooms and sheltered habitat areas in the [core].
Habitat: Be careful with these, but most correspond to Open Space and Factory. Vatfacs have no direct Spaceships module. For Housing, use Luxury Cabins. These modules may be Reconfigurable (Spaceships p. 24).

Accessories
Most of these are obvious. Note that entry modules are subsumed in Spaceships.

External Cradle: One External Clamp can represent several THS cradles.
Robot Arms: These may be purchased as design options. They are NOT the Spaceships Robot Arm in most cases.
Surgery: These are sickbays with automeds (Spaceships, p. 18).
Vehicle Bay: Use the optimized option in Spaceships 4.

Power Systems
Spaceships drives do not generate Power Points, it is subsumed into the system.

Solar Panels: Most solar arrays are subsumed into the Spaceships system.
Energy Banks: These do not exist per se any longer, and would be hell to mix with the variable length Spaceships turns. Use Fuel Cell or MHD in cases where you need the power and can't justify a reactor conversion.

Surface Features
Liquid-crystal skin is a design feature and subsumed into the system.

Other Notes
Gravity Generation (p. TS176): Use Spin Gravity (Spaceships, p. 30) for all types. The THS derived spin gravity can be kept as a design feature.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Thanks for this. Very useful.

This seems to contradict what David Pulver said in post 10 of this thread.

Though this was over a year ago. Has the position changed?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

-- I've just been sticking with straight TL9 across the board right now. It forces some very severe restrictions on spacecraft performance that (in my opinion) actually helps accentuate the "flavor" of THS designs (bare bones, almost entirely fuel tanks and engines). At least with the designs I've done quick conversions of, it works out ok.

-- If the official word becomes TL10 is allowed, it's easier to rebuild or modify a Spaceships design than a Appendix A one :)~

------------------
Example Conversion
This example converts the "Sudbury 4000" design by thtraveller, available at http://www.transhuman.talktalk.net/ts/tsSudbury4000.htm

The design uses a 10,000 ton (SM+10) unstreamlined hull.

Example 1: Using standard fusion drives
- As we can see, the cargo capacity is sacrificed to get the rough amount of delta-V in the original. Note the amount of steerage cargo (THS designs run very crew-light) and the scaled weapon batteries to also juice some extra cargo while still keeping it armed with a light defense laser.

Example 2: Using advanced fusion pulse drive
- Note the steep increase in cost (+$100M per drive slot), but it's easier to get the originals other performance features.


Sudbury 4000: Fusion Pulse Drive Edition (TL9)

Front Hull System Notes
1 Light Alloy Armor (dDR 15).
2-4 Cargo Hold (500 tons capacity each).
5 Control Room (C7 computers, comm/sensor 8, only four control stations).*
6 Habitat (four cabins, one minifac fabricator, one-bed sickbay with automeds, and 270 tons cargo).*

Central Hull System
1 Light Alloy Armor (dDR 15).
2 External Clamp.
3! Tertiary Battery (one turret with 1 MJ VRF ultraviolet laser and 435 tons cargo).*
4 Fuel Cell (one Power Point).
5-6, core Fuel Tank (500 tons nuclear pellets providing 6 mps delta-V each).

Rear Hull System
1 Light Alloy Armor (dDR 15)
2 Fusion Pulse Drive (0.02G).*
3-6, core Fuel Tank (500 tons nuclear pellets providing 6 mps delta-V each).

* One technician mans each system.

It has a spin hull (0.2G) and exposed radiators.

TL Spacecraft dST/HP Hnd/SR HT Move Lwt. Load SM Occ dDR Range Cost
PILOTING/TL9 (Low Performance Spacecraft)
9 Sudbury 150 -4/5 13 0.02G/48 mps 10,000 2,205.8 +10 8ASV 15/15/15 0 $178.3M


Sudbury 4000: Advanced Fusion Pulse Drive Edition (TL9)

Front Hull System Notes
1 Light Alloy Armor (dDR 15).
2-4 Cargo Hold (500 tons capacity each).
5 Control Room (C7 computers, comm/sensor 8, only four control stations).*
6 Habitat (four cabins, one minifac fabricator, one-bed sickbay with automeds, and 270 tons cargo).*

Central Hull System
1 Light Alloy Armor (dDR 15).
2 External Clamp.
3! Tertiary Battery (one turret with 1 MJ VRF ultraviolet laser and 435 tons cargo).*
4 Fuel Cell (one Power Point).*
5-6, core Cargo Hold (500 tons capacity each).

Rear Hull System
1 Light Alloy Armor (dDR 15)
2-3 Advanced Fusion Pulse Drive (0.005G each).*
4-6, core Fuel Tank (500 tons nuclear pellets providing 20 mps delta-V each).

* One technician mans each system.

It has a spin hull (0.2G) and exposed radiators.

TL Spacecraft dST/HP Hnd/SR HT Move Lwt. Load SM Occ dDR Range Cost
PILOTING/TL9 (Low Performance Spacecraft)
9 Sudbury 150 -4/5 13 0.01G/80 mps 10,000 3,705.8 +10 8ASV 15/15/15 0 $466.5M

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Thanks for the replies! Very useful information.

I haven't gotten into doing conversions and have no experience with the 3e combat system to really compare, so I'm just wondering if the armor vs damage conversions work out.

It seems that in THS in general, armor is very powerful compared to weapons tech. From what I understand of the old combat system, it was pretty easy to have some high armor ratings which small ships couldn't really punch through. However, with this new system you can slap a heavy or secondary battery that can tear through even heavy ship armor. This seems very unreasonable for a THS setting.

Again, I'm just getting into this stuff, so maybe my interpretation is way off. Have any of you guys addressed this situation? I was thinking that maybe dDR should scale with ship size, or some across-the-board boost to dDR. Any thoughts?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

This is an issue with Spaceships. Having to use a whole module for a power point when all that is needed is a thirtieth of a power point in the Battery module is not right. Possibly just use a double size weapon to simulate this?

Interesting. Given the relative low cost of spin hulls compared to original TS would you give all large TS ships spin hulls?

Generally
I would favor the advanced fusion pulse drive as the more economical one. The NP fuel price is a serious problem though for any commercial operation. It needs to be at least ten times cheaper to be a potential commercial choice. NP did seem to be artificially under priced in the original TS.

Given the capabilities of the fusion rocket in spaceships, the fuel price _and_ availability, I expect to see it being favored over NP based drives in new TS designs.

Note that the TL10 advanced fusion pulse drive is close to being commercially competitive with TL9 fusion rockets as you need less fuel modules.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Not sure if it would make sense to give all larger ships the spin gravity option. I imagine most travellers can get by just fine in microgravity most of the time.

Fuel costs are probably going to have to be altered somewhat for the setting. I don't know if that means using the values from the THS core book (although those were set at values that justified a certain level of intrasystem trade).

The weapons thing is kind of annoying, but you can use the hack of 3x SM-1 systems in one slot to get around it.

SDVs and maybe all THS ships in general could maybe make use of Greater Survivability options in Spaceship 3 (p. 35).

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

I'm thinking that the only way to even closely represent THS ships is to use the 3-in-1 hack.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Or wait for Spaceships 8 (or whichever one it is that is the TS supplement, I think it's 8).

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

If only I didn't have to design a spaceship for my players to use by the weekend...

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

What is the 3-in-1 hack?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Divide a single section into three sections. Treat the three sections as if they were on a ship SM-1 in size.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Or create a new module that is self powered and gets in a reduced number of components per module. Just average the cost of the appropriate slice of the power module and the non-powered module. Though you have to generate one for each power type.

Self powered Tertiary Battery (Fuel Cell) [Hull]
15 weapons per battery
Cost SM7+ $: 1M 3M 10M 30M etc
Uninstalled: 1 3 10 30 etc

Self powered Tertiary Battery (MHD) [Hull]
20 weapons per battery
Cost SM7+ $: 1M 3M 10M 30M etc
Uninstalled: 0.75 2.5 7.5 25 etc

These are not high powered modules.
Weapon stats remain the same as the powered modules.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

What do you need?

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Here are the conversion notes from my own game. They don't match up with Tzeentch, though I don't see anything that gets me exercised.

I don't have THS with me, so I can't even defend some of the disparities. I will say that I was converting a 3e game, with active spaceships, to a 4e game, so I had to make some different choices than someone starting a new campaign. Your mileage may vary.

----------------------------
General- No Superscience.

Armor- No Organic or Exotic Laminate. Ice/Stone is not free. One or two spaces of Armor DR may be spread among all areas. Minimum dDR is 10 for high-traffic areas, 2 for all craft.

Control Room- Complexity is 8 at SM+5 and increases by 1 for every +3 SM. Sensors include Ladar and Radar, but not PESA. An active scan requires one Power Point.

Defensive ECM- Allowed.

Enhanced Array- PESA Array.

External Clamp- Safe Clamping takes longer than 20 seconds. ST is very low, perhaps 1% of shp's 'Basic Lift'.

Factory- Robofac.

Fuel Tanks- See pages TS189 and then TS180 to calculate Realistic Delta-V. Loaded Mass/Dry Mass = 20/Non-Fuel Tank Systems.[GRD: Ignore this - see below.]

Habitat- Hibernation chambers available.

Hangar Bay- Capacity and launch rate is half listed.

Engines- p. TS180 takes precedence. Calculate the tonnage of a system and use the table in the book. Raise all values by 25% and it matches a single SM+6 system.

Mining/Refinery- Divide productivity by 10.

Passenger Seating- Use the new rules.

Power Plant- An SM+6 plant provides 5 Megawatts per 'power point'.

Chemical Energy- Endurance is 24 hours.

Reactor- Cost is doubled. Fission: Endurance is 2 years. Fusion: Endurance is 200 years. Antimatter not allowed.

Ramscoop Not allowed.
----------------------------
Tzeentch wrote:
[blockquote]THS designs list their delta-V with turnover. Double that to get full one-way delta-V as Spaceships lists.[/blockquote]

This goes a long way towards explaining the differences in delta-V. Now they are close enough together that I would feel comfortable using the new values.

I would probably stick with the old fuel costs, mostly because of the Meizi itself and using it for regular passenger service from Earth to Mars. I used it in my game and made up a spreadsheet of how much it would cost to operate.

Here is my take on the Meizi, fast becoming a benchmark:
Front Section:
1 Armor, Light Alloy
2 Control Room - Sensors +10, Computer Complexity 9
3 Cabins - 58 cabin, sickbay, 1 minifac
4-6 Fuel Tanks

Center Section:
1 Armor, Light Alloy
2 Weapons, Tertiary Battery, Laser, Tower (2), Addl. 420 tons cargo
3 Fuel Tanks
4 Cabins - Pod Mounted. 57 Cabin, sickbay, 2 briefing rooms.
5 Cabins - Pod Mounted. 20 Cabin, 20 luxury.
6 Fuel Tanks
Core Fuel Tanks

Rear Section:
1 Armor, Light Alloy
2-5 Fuel Tanks
6 Reaction Engine, Fusion Pulse, HI
Core Fuel Tanks

Extras:
Spin Gravity, 0.38 G in Pods.

SM+10
dHP 150
Acceleration(G) 0.05
dDR 15
Handling -2
Delta-V 69.3
Fuel (Tons) 5500
------------------------------
-Grant

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Well, I'm just trying to nail down rules. Nobody in my group likes to retcon rules of any sort (me especially), so I was just hoping that I could come up with a set of spaceship building rules that I will consider "canon" until Spaceships 8 comes out.

I'm making them a modified SolEx ship, that was previously hijacked/stolen by Negative Growth terrorists wo modified it. Recently my players, while fleeing for their lives, managed to acquire said ship.

So basically I'm converting and modifying the Sunlance ESV (from Spacecraft of the Solar System). A direct convsersion gives me essentially this:

SM+8, 1 control room, 1 Habitat (2 cabins, 1 minifac, 3 cargo), 1 nanocomposite armor PER section, 1 Fusion Pulse Engine, and 14 fuel tanks.

Which actually works out pretty well if using TL10 engines, makes a pretty close conversion.

On a side note, does anyone know of any Space Time travel calculators for 4e? I know of the excellent 3e one but that requires Burn Endurance. (Alternately, does anyone know an accurate formula for calculating Burn Endurance using Spaceships rules?)

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Try the new version of http://www.transhuman.talktalk.net/ts/TSTravTime.htm

You can now enter DeltaV or Burn Endurance.

(don't forget to do ctrl-f5 to flush the old version)

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Thanks for the link, I never realized it was updated!

Hmm, I like this idea a lot. Just so I'm clear, you take a 1-point power system and it provides .5 power so can power .5 of a weapons battery, OR you use a 2-point power system and use 1/3 of it (to get 2/3 power point) and it powers 2/3 of a weapon battery?

The price doesn't seem to make sense the way you did it though ... a 15 weapon battery using a fuel cell should be cheaper than a 20 weapon battery using an MHD. I would simply multiply the cost for each system by the % of it you are using (I rounded any fractions up to represent the cost of integration):

Self powered Tertiary Battery (Fuel Cell) [Hull]
15 weapons per battery
Cost SM7+ $: 0.85M 3.5M 8.5M 35M etc
Uninstalled: 1 3 10 30 etc

Self powered Tertiary Battery (MHD) [Hull]
20 weapons per battery
Cost SM7+ $: 1.1M 4.5M 11M 45M etc
Uninstalled: 0.75 2.5 7.5 25 etc

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Sunlance
Original Stats of Note: c. 0.07G/268 mps; cockpit, cabin, 85 tons cargo; LMass 1,033.

General Modules:
Front: 1x Nanocomposite, 1x Cargo Hold, 1x Habitat, 1x Control Room, 3x Fuel Tank. Habitat and Control Room could be combined to free up a slot.
Rest: All fuel tanks except for necessary drives.

At TL9/TL10 you have some significant limitations to work with. Depending on your drive assumptions:

TL9:
6x HT Advanced Fusion Pulse Drives provide 0.06G acceleration but even filling the rest of the ship with mostly fuel tanks leaves you at about 140 mps. Using the SM hack to combine habitat and control room can inch you up to 168 mps.

2x HT Fusion Pulse Drives and standard modules will leave you with c. 0.08G/56 mps, or 80 mps if you cramdown systems.

TL10
The huge jump in performance gives you a LOT more room to work with here. That 2x HT Fusion Pulse Drive option immediately goes up to 112 mps conservatively, c. 135 mps optimistically.

The 6x HT advanced fusion pulse drive option actually exceeds the original design performance by a significant amount - 700 mps conservatively!! This gives you room to add more armor at least. Shifting things around to better match the original cDR: Front: 2x Nanocomposite (total dDR 40), move front habitat to CEnter core. Add a nanocomposite to center (dDR20). Hmm, still up to 480 mps. Basically, we can lop off another 3 fuel tanks to match the originals performance (2 to still put us to 360 mps!)

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

I hadn't realized it needed updating until you mentioned it.

Yes

Yup, those numbers look right. However, Spaceships module prices are typically only shown to one significant figure, and occasionally two when the second sig fig is a 5. And even then only every other SM has two sig figs. Also the battery prices were chosen so that the price for each weapon in the battery was a nice number of one or two sig figs.

So when calculating new numbers off original module prices that are severely rounded you don't need to be too precise; and you need to consider divisibility; and you need to try and maintain roughly a 1:3 ratio between SMs. However I agree that 20 weapons should be dearer than 15.

My original prices don't pass all those tests either, so I suggest
- fuel cell 750K 3M 7.5 30
- MHD 1 4 10 40

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Re the alternative Sunlance drive performances

TL9
-one fusion pulse drive plus fifteen tanks = 35 days to Mars (HT = 59 days)
-six advanced fusion pulse drives plus ten tanks = 23 days to Mars (HT = 42 days)
-six fusion rocket (Hydrogen) drives plus ten tanks = 29 days to Mars (HT = 48 days)

TL10
-one fusion pulse drive plus fifteen tanks = 20 days to Mars (HT = 30 days)
-six advanced fusion pulse drives plus four tanks (it hasn't got time to burn any more) = 22 days to Mars
-six high thrust advanced fusion pulse drives plus eight tanks (it hasn't got time to burn any more) = 16 days to Mars
-six fusion rocket (Hydrogen) drives plus five tanks = 22 days to Mars
-six fusion rocket (Water) drives plus ten tanks = 17 days to Mars
-six HT fusion rocket (Hydrogen) drives plus ten tanks = 16 days to Mars

HT drives are slower unless you can do a continuous burn all the way.
Advanced fusion pulse is the most economical of the fusion pulse drives
Fusion rockets, particularly water, are by far the cheapest to run using default Spaceships costs.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

Just out of curiousity has anyone tried to make an economically viable tramp freighter for TS using Spaceships 2 rules? It seems to work if you use TS fuel costs, use the TL9 price scheme for freight and passengers, and allow TL10 fusion pulse drives.

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

I tried back when it came out and it only came close to realistic with the suggested costs from S2 with optimally designed Fusion Rocket craft. Though it was a poor fit to the designs in S2.

TS has NP fuel 100 times cheaper than Spaceships at $500 per ton.

Plugging in your drive and numbers into an efficient spacecraft and working out "realistic" economics gives $20K per cabin (first class passenger) and $2K per ton of cargo for a median Earth-Mars trip (1.8 AU). So about $11K per cabin per AU, $1.1K per ton cargo per AU. Which, as you say, is very close to the S2 suggested costs for TL9.

Design:TL10, SM10, spin gravity, Armor, Control, 5 Habitat (300 cabins), 3 cargo (1500 tons), 9 tanks, 1 Fusion Pulse Drive (0.05G, 126 mps), $203M, Earth-Mars 34 days, 10 trips per year.

Economics include fuel cost, ship payments, depreciation, insurance, salaries and a 5% RoI

Re: GURPS Spaceships for THS conversions?
 

I did it as 6k/cabin, 12k/ luxury cabin. A cabin can take 2 economy or 1 first class passenger, a luxury cabin can take 2 first class or 1 luxury passenger (I'm using the S2 terms). And 1k/freight, like you said. (This also correlates with the costs in the TS 3e book and changing times).