Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

Such a table should be relatively easy to make.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to get vBulletin to show a simple Word or Excel table.

If it's just for a single character, there is usually space for a few notes for his armour, such as:

Mail Shirt DR 4/2 --- Weight 25 --- Covers areas 9-10 and 17-18.
-1 DR imp+, +2 DR cut-, +1 DR cut.

Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

Exactly. We work with what we've got here on the board.

Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

If I ever decided to submit such a proposal as a Pyramid article, however, then there would be room for an improved format, such as a handy reference table.

Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

As Luther remarked upthread, scaling is a problem for when that happy day when we finally have rules about thicker and thinner armour. As it happens, the simplified values are approximated from a previous scaleable rule, so if I wanted to scale the armour, here's how I would do it.

A note first, any scaling of DR would maintain a split armour DR like the mail 4/2 in the same proportions, aside from these rules.

Soft flexible: Most flexible armour like fur, cloth, leather and the buff coat.
At DR 3, add +1 DR vs. cut-. For every full 3 points of DR after that, add a +1 to DR against cut- and subtract a -1 DR against imp+. In addition to that, for every 6 full points of DR over 3, add a +1 to DR against cut and subtract a -1 from DR against imp and cr+.

Soft rigid: Leather, light scale and studded leather.
For every 3 full points of DR after DR 3, add a +1 DR against cut- and subtract a -1 DR against imp+. In addition to that, for every 6 full points of natural DR over 3, add a +1 DR against cut and subtract -1 DR against cr+.

Metal flexible: Mail and double mail.
At DR 6, mail (but not double mail, which already has this bonus) receives a +1 DR against cut- and +1 DR against cut. At DR 9, both types receive a +1 DR against cut- and cut; as well as -1 DR against imp+. For every full 3 points of DR after that, add a +1 DR against cut-. For every full 6 points after that, add a +1 DR against cut and a -1 DR against imp+.

Metal rigid: Lorica segmentata, scale and plate.
At DR 9 add a +1 DR against cut- and cut and subtract a -1 DR against imp+ and cr+. For every 3 full points DR over 9, add a +1 DR against cut- and subtract a -1 DR against imp+. In addition to that, for every 6 full points of DR over 9, add a +1 DR against cut and subtract -1 DR against cr+.

Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

FWIW get rid of "studded leather". It never existed historically as an armour typology.

Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

Even if it never existed in historical settings, that doesn't mean that it can't exist in fictional universes that aren't tied to Earth except through the existance of humans.

IIRC, the only "studded leather" piece of armor in the Basic Set is a skirt, presumably designed to supplement scale, mail, and plate armor as "groin and leg" padding.

Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

How can anyone assert that? How do you prove the absence of something?

To me at least, 'studded leather' represents any and all leather armour that is supported in some way with metal.

Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

Precisely.

Even if no historical army ever fielded troops wearing studded leather, orcs in fantasy worlds wear armour that's leather with some metal rivets. We need stats for such armour.

Correct, although you could use the Light Scale stats for a fantasy world 'studded leather'.

Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

Now Icelander, I am really quite surprised at you. Studded leather? Studded leather finds itself in much the same position as the Brontosaurus, in a certain regard. They are similar in that those interpretations of the facts that lead to belief in the existence of studded leather have now been shown to be in error. Much in the same way the interpretation of the facts that lead to a belief in a Brontosaurus were in error. If one asserts (correctly) that there were no Brontosauruses it would hardly be defensible for one to exclaim, "How can anyone assert that? How do you prove the absence of something?"

Ah ha - no we get to it. You just have a very strange definition of "studded leather". If your studded leather means "any and all leather armor that is supported in some way with metal" then I would just change the name to "reinforced leather" and call it a day.

Here is a picture of some fantasy armor made of leather than clearly has "some metal rivets". I would still call this "leather armor" though. If those rivets increase the defensive value of the armor at all, it is far below the granularity of the GURPS system. Some people would call that "studded leather".

The existence of "studded leather" is another one of those myths perpetuated by Dungeons and Dragons. They write about it:

That is the nonexistent purely fantasy "studded leather." Maybe Orcs wear it in fantasy games, or whatever. AD&D notes his is a great armor for pirates to wear. *shrug*

I have been looking online for one pictures I have in a book in hand, but cannot find it. But this picture looks well enough like it to illustrate the point. Is this the type of thing you are calling "studded leather" Icelander. It is leather armor that is supported by metal, but it is not the studs (or rivets) that increase its defensive capability. It is the metal plates on the other side. I would think you would want to differentiate between something like this and the traditional fantasy studded leather AD&D describes.

Re: The Point Always Beats the Edge Revisited and MA-compatible
 

I was just curious how anyone had gone about proving that studded leather was never used. I'm not really asserting that it was, you see, but I can't see how anyone would be able to be certain.

I used 'studded leather' because that's the name given in BASIC. I'm fine with reinforced leather and indeed, use that name most often when I mention it.

It depends. I'd have to see how big the rivets are on the inside. It could be DR 1, 2 or 3; all depending on how tough the leather is and how big the rivets are on the inside.

I'd give that DR 3, sure, and call it reinforced leather. GURPS doesn't have stats for it yet, but I use something similar to Light Scale.