Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

I've been looking closely at the fencing styles and their maneuvers, which I expect to use soon.

The Disarm maneuver lets you attempt to strike at a foe's weapon, with intent to knock it out of their hand. If you succeed, you have a quick contest of weapon skills or of Disarm vs. Retain Weapon.

Now, if I'm a fencer, and someone makes a Disarm move at me, can I use an active defense against it? Can I dodge? Can I parry? It seems as if parrying a Disarm would involve putting your weapon in the way of the Disarm, which kind of defeats the purpose, but Martial Arts does say that there are moves called "parries" that involve getting out of the way. So if I make my defense roll, did my adversary just waste that Disarm?

Or is it impossible to defend against a Disarm, and do we go right to the quick contest?

Bill Stoddard

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

I'm pretty sure Disarm is a melee attack and is treated just like any other melee attack - hit, defend, then resolve (and if the hit fails or defense succeeds, nothing happens).

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

Correct. In GURPS, any attempt to control something held by something requires contact before the attempt. Grapples are required before you can Arm Lock, parries can be used to initiate Judo throws or Beats, and the same applies to Disarms.

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

Disarming is simply a technique to improve your odds at Knocking a Weapon Away (p. B401). As those rules note: "If you hit and your foe fails to defend, roll a Quick Contest of weapon skills with your foe; if you’re attempting to knock away a missile weapon, your opponent rolls against DX." In other words, there are four rolls in total:

1. Your roll against skill (or Disarming, if better) at the usual penalties to hit the weapon, and an extra -2 with a non-fencing weapon. Note that one or two special weapons in Martial Arts -- the hook sword, deer antlers, bill, and trident -- also get to ignore the extra -2.
   
   
2. Your foe's active defense. In this case, "parry" represents getting the weapon out of the way rather than interposing it; see Defending Your Weapon (p. B401) and What Is . . . a Parry? (Martial Arts, p. 122).
   
   
3. Your roll against skill (or Disarming, if better) in the Quick Contest to disarm. This can be ST-based, and some weapons get a bonus to make the attempt (Jitte/Sai & Whip weapons).
   
   
4. Your opponent's roll against skill (or Retain Weapon, if better) in the Quick Contest. This can be ST-based, and some weapons get a bonus to resist (two-handed weapons).

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

Great, thanks! It seems I did understand it correctly. That will likely be useful in my upcoming fencing-based campaign. Finding the detailed discussion of "what is a parry" helped clarify this.

Bill Stoddard

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

Take an axe and apply it - with great force - to your opponent's shoulder. There is a good chance he will be disarmed.

But that makes the floor all slippery --
 

and the Environment Impact Statement is a [expletive deleted.]

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

Apologies for the necromancy, but:
Just to be clear here.
With "This can be ST-based", does that mean that the melee weapon skill for the purpose of this context is based on strength, rather than dexterity, if it were better?

So instead of DX + 5 for a weapon, it would be ST + 5?

Or is it a dex weapon skill, or a strength quick contest 'as is' (retain the weapon with sheer grip strength)?

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

"Either of you may opt to make a ST-based skill roll instead of the standard DX-based one, if that would be better." (Basic 401 Knocking Your Weapon Away).

So when Speedy the Swashbuckler hits the ogre's weapon with the intent to knock it away, Speedy is making a DX-based roll against DX+5 (a 20, in his case). The ogre is making a ST-based roll against ST+2 (a 26, in his case).

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

I believe that the to-hit is still dex-based, but the quick contest can (optionally) be str-based. If you try to disarm the str 18 barbarian, he will probably opt to use strength for the contest. :)

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

That is what I figured, as well (maybe I should have at least italicized the quick contest part in my post...heh)
That the to hit is a regular dex roll.

The ambiguity being:
Either the actual contest is either weapon skill based on ST or DX, or in the case of ranged weapons, DX only.
versus
You can choose your DX Weapon skill, or a regular strength check, but leaning toward the first option due to the phrasing "based on" being used.

I simply wasn't sure enough despite leaning toward one option, but now I'm pretty much on the first option side, just as mlangsdorf 'played it out'.

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

The quoted passage is pretty clear: Both the attacker and defender make weapon skill checks in a Quick Contest. Either of them may make a DX based weapon skill check or a ST based weapons skill check.

So again, if you have Saber at Stat +7, DX 14, and ST 20 and are attempting a disarm, you may choose to make a DX based Saber roll versus an 21, or a ST based Saber roll versus a 27.

It's not a simple ST check. You can leverage your skill and your muscles.

Re: Martial Arts: How does Disarm work?
 

there are some variations to Disarm introduced later in books like Technical Grappling, Tactical Shooting and Protection and Warning Spells